Author Topic: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.  (Read 10751 times)

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Offline flinter54

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.243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« on: September 07, 2008, 08:59:17 AM »
A good friend of mine is looking into picking up a new rifle. It will serve as a varmint rifle as well as a back up to his 30-06 for deer hunting. As of right now the two rounds he is up in the air on are the .243 and the
25-06. Either of which will be a H&R. The .243 would be in the Ultra-Varmint and the 25-06 would be the Ultra-hunter. He is also into reloading so he wont be limited to off the shelf ammunition. So if it were up to each of you, what would be in your gun safe next to your 30-06, the .243 or the 25-06. If it were up to me I would opt for the .243. I'm also trying to get him to become a GBO member  ;D. As he found out yesterday, there is a wealth of information here.

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Offline Swampman

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 09:03:27 AM »
The .25-06 is a little too much for varmints IMO.
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Offline whiskey101

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 09:16:48 AM »
Either would work, but I like the .243 better for what he is using it for.
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Offline Catfish

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 09:58:31 AM »
The bright side is that he can`t go wrong with eather. The down side is that they are both excellant rounds makeing his choice hard. The .25-06 hits harder and has more recoil. The .243 will have alittle less recoil but both will tend to blow big holes in coyotes. Personally I don`t see that as a bad thing with hide going for $ 6 around here.

Offline flinter54

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 10:32:57 AM »
I agree, he can't go wrong. 75gr V-max for the .25 or 55gr/70gr BT for .243? Either will work well on woodchucks and yote's. It's just up to him.

Offline mjbgalt

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 10:33:56 AM »
anything the .243 does the .25-06 will do better. i shot a .243 for years and then bought a .25-06 and i sold all my .243 stuff, after shooting the '06 and seeing that the recoil is only about 10% more, with the potential of going up to a 120 grain bullet if i need to.

honestly, "overkill" for varmints doesn't exist. the .243 will tear big holes in them too.

i love my '06, and i think he will too.

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Offline Swampman

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2008, 10:38:47 AM »
Wouldn't a .223 be better a lot for varmints, and cheaper to shoot?

To tell the truth I never think of the .243 or the .25-06 as anything other than deer cartridges.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline flintlock

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2008, 10:53:23 AM »
I'd check with the guys over at the H&R Forum, see if one is more accurate than the other in that gun...

As far as which is better...Whichever he buys will work for double duty, neither deer nor coyotes nor groundhogs will ever know the difference...

Offline WyoStillhunter

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2008, 12:48:18 PM »
As a varmint gun and spare deer rifle to back up an '06 I would get the .243.
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Offline BBF

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2008, 01:35:09 PM »
OK, here is the problem I see. Either of the two will be just fine for varmints but it should also serve as a backup for deer. I don't think it is prudent to shoot at any deer with a varmint style bullet regardless of caliber. As a backup for deer I would be inclined towards the 25 cal everything else being equal. However the 243 is available in a bull barrel, hmmmm??!!
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Offline Tunaman

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2008, 02:03:40 PM »
If he loads, Why not stay with the 06 family.

Offline Kurt L

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2008, 02:35:11 PM »
I will go with Tunaman for one reason: if he was to save money he could use the same brass to make both
with 270 win and 30-06 brass can be had cheap for example and will work for both.

if that is not an issue I would go with the short little 243 and as many already know the short cases
tend to be  more accurate as in 308win and the 243 is a 308 necked to 243/6mm
and the shorter case would use less powder than the 25-06 also. and the less powder of the 243 would make a Little less heat than the 25-06 when shooting but not considerable.
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Offline 243dave

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2008, 03:26:10 PM »
Both are fine calibers but I favor a 243. I was lucky with my rifle and it shoots reloaded 70 and 100gr bullets to the same POI. My sporter weight barreled 700 will put 70gr matchkings(groundhog and practice bullets) under .75moa sometimes closer to .5 for three shots. It also shoots 100gr speer grandslams around .75 moa and I never have to adjust the scope. This is what makes this rifle perfect for me. Just grab whatever ammo for whatever game and kill'em. A 100gr grandslam in a 243 will kill any deer at extreme angles with authority regardless what the experts say. A 25-06 with a 120gr will be even a bit better. Dave 

Offline huntswithdogs

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 06:42:33 AM »
He can't go wrong with either choice. I've had both. Both will frail a deer or varmit. Recoil isn't bad on either. Even though I reload, I still look a factory shells when out somewhere. I do see more 243s on the shelves than 25s. Heck at the price of the H&Rs why not buy one and get another barrel. That'll solve all the problems.


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Offline Dee

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2008, 08:28:32 AM »
The 2506 is a 22-250 on steriods. I have had 6 or 7 22-250s and I have had 7 2506s. As far as them being to much for predator or varmint hunting? Nonsense. As I type I am looking at, and he is looking back, at a mounted 30lb Tom Bobcat, that I shot with an 87 grain TNT hollow point loaded at 3600fps. The bobcat was shot at about 60 yards, and the bullet never exited. It will out shoot a 243 ANY DAY, and is as inherently accurate as a caliber, as is the 308 Winchester.
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Offline HillBillyFarmer

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2008, 10:27:35 AM »
Since the 25-06 is the only center-fire rifle I own and reload for that's where my vote is resting, I guess it would be a little different situation if I had something else to hunt deer with, but I don't, so I tailor my reloads to the game I'm hunting. If it's woodchucks it's a 75gr V-Max, if it's a furburer I use a 90gr Barnes cooper-solid. Makes a nice little hole that can be stitched up real easily. For deer I've tried about everything, but I really like the Hornady 117gr BTSP and Nosler 115gr spitzers.

Offline Val

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2008, 03:37:56 PM »
I have a .243 (a tang safety Ruger) with a 70 grain load for varmints and a 100 grain load for deer. The POI for both loads is so close that one or the other can be used without having to rezero the scope. It's a nice light carry rifle and I have dropped a deer with it. I have a Savage 110FP 25-06 with a 120 grain load. This rifle is too heavy for a carry rifle so I like to use it when setting up on the ground, early morning or late afternoon. I dropped a couple of deer with this rifle. Either one is very effective for deer or varmint.
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Offline Brithunter

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 10:34:48 PM »
Well having thought about it I would go with the 243 but in a good bolt action and not a cheap H&R. If that is all I could afford I would look for a good used rifle or wait and save up some more money.

In fact lets' face used is where I would be looking as new stuff I am not really impressed with.

Offline JPShelton

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2008, 11:43:22 PM »
Well having thought about it I would go with the 243 but in a good bolt action and not a cheap H&R. If that is all I could afford I would look for a good used rifle or wait and save up some more money.

In fact lets' face used is where I would be looking as new stuff I am not really impressed with.

I have a "Handi-Rifle" and it most certainly was NOT "all I could afford."  In fact, the low price that these sell for here in the U.S. was something of a demerit, in my view.  One simply doesn't expect such an inexpensive piece of shooting kit to deliver anything but the lowest measure of accuracy, reliability, longevity, or user satisfaction, and I was such a person -until I actually shot one, that is.

A friend of mine has a Handi-Rifle in .243 that impressed me greatly.  It came from the factory with a crisp, creep-free trigger with a 3.75 pound pull weight.  In shooting, I liked the fit of the stock exceptionally well and that, coupled with the decent trigger, made it a delightful rifle to shoot.  It is also a very accurate one, shooting sub-MOA groups with a variety of ammo.  I was so impressed that I bought a Handi-Rifle of my own, albeit in .223 instead of .243.

The Handi-Rifle actually has a lot going for it, and makes a fine stalking rifle.  It is a very dynamic handling rifle, one that gets on target quickly, yet it has enough weight to allow for a steady hold under field conditions.  It is compact and easy to manouver through thick hardwoods.  Sure, the barrel is unpolished and blued, but it isn't very reflective because of this.  It also hold paste wax well, making it a cinch to weatherproof for the severe wet weather I hunt in.  That barrel sports a recessed target-type crown that was actually properly done from the factory.  Mine isn't prone to copper-fouling, either, so they must have got the boring and rifling right, too. 

Mine, like my friend's Handi-Rifle, is also a sub MOA grouper with a variety of loads using bullets in the 60 to 69 grain range, and is one of the few "sporting" rifles in .223 that comes with a 1:9 twist barrel.  This was important to me because I use the rifle for taking light, thin skinned game up to 150 pounds or so and wanted to be able to shoot 60 grain Partitions and 62 grain TSXs accurately.

In some of the areas that I hunt, the abillity to SILENTLY unload and reload is an asset, as one must cross fences and other obsticles during the course of a stalk, and the hinge action enables one to unload and reload quickly and quietly.  There is no bolt handle to snag on brush, and that is a bonus where I hunt, too.

I've owned rifles costing several times (like ten or more) what I paid for my Handi-Rifle and of all of the rifles that I've owned, my Handi-Rifle is my favorite of the lot.

The deer around my home town aren't very big and the distances they are shot at aren't very long, and for the shooting that I do here, the .223 is entirely adequate and all the cartridge that I need, assuming the use of Partitions or TSXs.

Were that not the case, and I were in the situation that the OP's friend is in, I'd buy a .243 Handi Rifle without hesitation.  I would prefer that over the .25-'06 in a Handi-Rifle because the .243s have 22" barrels, whilst the .25-'06s have longer tubes that make the package less "Handi".

I like my Handi-Rifle so well, in fact, that I recently sold my CZ 550 in .30-'06 to make way for a second Handi-Rifle in that caliber.

YMMV, to each their own, and all of that, but SOME of us buy, shoot, and enjoy Handi-Rifles for reasons OTHER than their price tag.

-JP 

Offline flinter54

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 10:50:03 AM »
Thank you for all of your replies. My buddy was on the fence for the most part, though slightly leaning to the .25-06 prior to your thoughts. I believe his is firmly in the 25-06 camp now. I think what put him over the edge did not deal with the varmint end of the spectrum, but rather the ability to push a slightly heavier bullet than the .243 for big game. Other than that, he feels it's six one way and a half dozen the other. Thanks again for all your input!

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Offline Brithunter

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 12:46:08 PM »
Well having thought about it I would go with the 243 but in a good bolt action and not a cheap H&R. If that is all I could afford I would look for a good used rifle or wait and save up some more money.

In fact lets' face used is where I would be looking as new stuff I am not really impressed with.

I have a "Handi-Rifle" and it most certainly was NOT "all I could afford."  In fact, the low price that these sell for here in the U.S. was something of a demerit, in my view.  One simply doesn't expect such an inexpensive piece of shooting kit to deliver anything but the lowest measure of accuracy, reliability, longevity, or user satisfaction, and I was such a person -until I actually shot one, that is.

A friend of mine has a Handi-Rifle in .243 that impressed me greatly.  It came from the factory with a crisp, creep-free trigger with a 3.75 pound pull weight.  In shooting, I liked the fit of the stock exceptionally well and that, coupled with the decent trigger, made it a delightful rifle to shoot.  It is also a very accurate one, shooting sub-MOA groups with a variety of ammo.  I was so impressed that I bought a Handi-Rifle of my own, albeit in .223 instead of .243.

The Handi-Rifle actually has a lot going for it, and makes a fine stalking rifle.  It is a very dynamic handling rifle, one that gets on target quickly, yet it has enough weight to allow for a steady hold under field conditions.  It is compact and easy to manouver through thick hardwoods.  Sure, the barrel is unpolished and blued, but it isn't very reflective because of this.  It also hold paste wax well, making it a cinch to weatherproof for the severe wet weather I hunt in.  That barrel sports a recessed target-type crown that was actually properly done from the factory.  Mine isn't prone to copper-fouling, either, so they must have got the boring and rifling right, too. 

Mine, like my friend's Handi-Rifle, is also a sub MOA grouper with a variety of loads using bullets in the 60 to 69 grain range, and is one of the few "sporting" rifles in .223 that comes with a 1:9 twist barrel.  This was important to me because I use the rifle for taking light, thin skinned game up to 150 pounds or so and wanted to be able to shoot 60 grain Partitions and 62 grain TSXs accurately.

In some of the areas that I hunt, the abillity to SILENTLY unload and reload is an asset, as one must cross fences and other obsticles during the course of a stalk, and the hinge action enables one to unload and reload quickly and quietly.  There is no bolt handle to snag on brush, and that is a bonus where I hunt, too.

I've owned rifles costing several times (like ten or more) what I paid for my Handi-Rifle and of all of the rifles that I've owned, my Handi-Rifle is my favorite of the lot.

The deer around my home town aren't very big and the distances they are shot at aren't very long, and for the shooting that I do here, the .223 is entirely adequate and all the cartridge that I need, assuming the use of Partitions or TSXs.

Were that not the case, and I were in the situation that the OP's friend is in, I'd buy a .243 Handi Rifle without hesitation.  I would prefer that over the .25-'06 in a Handi-Rifle because the .243s have 22" barrels, whilst the .25-'06s have longer tubes that make the package less "Handi".

I like my Handi-Rifle so well, in fact, that I recently sold my CZ 550 in .30-'06 to make way for a second Handi-Rifle in that caliber.

YMMV, to each their own, and all of that, but SOME of us buy, shoot, and enjoy Handi-Rifles for reasons OTHER than their price tag.

-JP 

 :D well it seems that I stepped on your toes some. Sorry but I cannot see the attraction of the Handi rifle I don't like it's looks and have plenty of others that I do like the look of so have never even picked up a handi rifle. in fact thinking about it I cannot recall even seeing one in the flesh. The original poster never mentioned why a Handi was being considered but I do know that they are cheaper than a lot of others and I still say if price is the reason then a good used gun in my mind would be preferable in my honest opinion.

Offline backstrap

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2008, 05:25:04 PM »
If it where me and money was tight i would buy a stevens 25-06 over a cheap single shot i can buy a stevens 243,25-06,30-06,308 or 7mag for what a single shot would cost.here where i live a H&R runs 300 or more and i can get  the stevens for 320. i love the 25-06 i have a 243 and have shot a deer with it but when it comes  time to grabing a rifle out of my safe dureing deer season it is my browning 25-06 the H&R 243 stays at home and so does my ruger m77 30-06. tell your bud to get a 25 he will like it very well
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Offline jwv

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2008, 06:55:20 AM »
One more for the 25-06. When I bought the Handi barrel from fanner 50 it was a brand new barrel and try as I might with the 100 grain bullets I never could get it to do any better then 1" groups.Which is more then good enough for deer hunting, still I beleived it could shoot better. I then tried the factory 117 Hornady BTSP and can get to 5/8" to 3/4" groups.I could not ask for any better for a deer or heavy varmint rifle. I have put about 175 rounds thru it and find it is a very good barrel.To me the 25-06 is hard to beat for speed and power without alot of recoil. Good luck on your choice.       Jack
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Offline rickt300

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2008, 07:25:01 AM »
Here goes my opinion. If I am going to use a full length 06 case I think I want it to be at least a 270. If your varminting is going to be like mine, coyotes, raccons etc then most of your shooting won't be at extreme ranges or in long strings of shooting. There are several very acceptable varmint bullets available in .277. Now if you really are going to shoot a lot of varmints the 243 comes out on top as you get good velocities with the light weight bullets and a perfectly acceptable deer gun with the heavier bullets. Recoil in a 25-06 is noticably greater than a 243 after 20 or so shots. On top of this the 25-06 is very loud when shooting the lighter weight bullets. Actually you can do some varminting with your 30-06 if it shoots well.
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Offline ba_50

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2008, 01:22:07 AM »
.243 Pro's... Larger choice of bullets including match. A Little less recoil. Good long range shooter, short action.

25/06.... Probably somewhat better long range caliber. Reform 30/06 brass to 25/06.

When the 25/06 first came out it wasn't that impressive in the accuracy dept. It's never been a match caliber like the .243. Better bullets may have changed that.

I have a 30/06 that will need a new barrel and I thought about the .25 in a medium barrel. But it's a RH bolt.

From what I've been reading, I would go with a .260 Remington if I could get one in a LH Medium bull barrel. Easy on barrels, recoil, and accuracy good out to 1000 yards. For a coyote calling rifle it would be a semi-auto.

Now if the manufacturers will just come through.

Offline kyotekiller25

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2008, 05:58:07 PM »
I"ve used and shot both, but my love affair is with the 25-06.  I've owned 3 over the years and all 3 were easy 1/2 MOA shooters with the right loads.  I wanted a dual purpose rifle for coyotes/deer and what I really wanted was the .257 WBY.  However, I"m not rich so I went with the "lowly" 25-06.  Since then I"ve taken coyotes/deer/antelope/black bear/and 1 cow elk with my 25-06.  I've shot virtually every bullet out of the 3 rifles I've had and I do have my favorites.  The 115g NBT at 3200fps is an awesome load for antelope/deer.  I've used that bullet to kill a couple deer and antelope between 500-600 yards, DRT 1 shot kills.  Also killed 3 black bears from 350-450 with the 115g NBT and 1 with the 117g SBT.  2 bears took 2 shots, the other took 1 shot, DRT.  Shot a cow elk about 250 with 100g NP.  Was a great test for that little bullet.  Penetration was great, found 2 of the bullets on the offside hide.  Took 3 shots to ground her.  I knew I shoulda used the 115g-120g NP but I didn't feel like buying any when I had the 100's on hand.  85g NBT at 3600fps makes short work of coyotes to 600 yards as well.  I also like the 100g NBT at 3400fps for a little longer range coyotes.

The 243 is a great coyote rifle, but in my opinion falls a bit short for a "do all" deer caliber.  Sure they kill thousands of deer every year, but the 25-06 hits so much harder with 115-120g bullets its not even a contest.  And if you happen to see a trophy buck on the "other" side of the canyon, ask yourself if you really want a 243 in your hands??  I know I wouldn't...

I'm very glad I went with the 25-06 over the 243 for a dual purpose rifle.

If your going to be doing more varminting then deer hutning, I give the 243 the slight nod because it uses less powder, and is still very accurate since its based on the 308.  You can also zip the 55's at 4000+fps. 

If your going to be doing more coyote/deer hunting, the 25-06 wins hands down no matter how you look at it.  If one cant handle the extra few lbs of kick the 25 has, then you might need a sissy pad...

I'll never be without a 25-06 in my battery.  It is my all time favorite cartridge period.  It will kill anything I ever intend to hunt when you use the right bullets and put them in the right place.  And it sure seems to kill A LOT better then it should for a smaller caliber rifle.

Offline kyotekiller25

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2008, 06:01:34 PM »
Oh BTW, forgot to add the 75g vmax at 3800-3900 vaporizes squirrels and rabbits out to about 300 yards.  They also work pretty good on coyotes.  I dont use a steady diet of them as I want my barrel to last more then a 1000 rounds.  Anythign near 4000fps is just a barrel burner and there not very good for longer range either...

Offline onesonek

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2008, 04:48:43 AM »
Oh BTW, forgot to add the 75g vmax at 3800-3900 vaporizes squirrels and rabbits out to about 300 yards.  They also work pretty good on coyotes.  I dont use a steady diet of them as I want my barrel to last more then a 1000 rounds.  Anythign near 4000fps is just a barrel burner and there not very good for longer range either...

First off,I  don't see either as a bad choice in regards to the original post. Being it's for backup to the 30-06 and it's primary use will lean more towards the varmints, I would go with the .243 myself. My ? question would be, does he had load?  If he don't, then I think the .243 has an edge with availability, but not necessarily so. On the other hand, I'm sure any gunshop would order your/his request for either.

Now to the quote,,,The 75 gr. V-Max would be my first choice also in the .25-06, but had to do a double take the 38-3900 fps  with them. Sounds rather warm to me, but each rifle has it's own rules and may be possible/safe. I do agree that 4000 fps is going to be somewhat harder on barrel life, more if you are shooting it too fast getting the barrel hot. But I don't understand the last part of not being "very good for longer range". They ( I read that as  .243 55 gr.) certainly are not any less inherently accurate than the .25/75 gr at 36-3700 (or more). 

Dave

Offline kyotekiller25

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2008, 07:20:18 AM »
Super speed lightweight bullets aren't accurate at longer distances.  BC outdoes speed everytime past 400 yards.  If theres any bit of wind, you can forget about making consistent hits with small hyper fast velocity bullets at longer distances.  That definately rules out the 55g in 243 and 75g in 25-06.  I'll take the middle weight bullets at the very least, and 9 of 10 times, give me the heavy for caliber bullets when shooting 500+ yards.

Just all depends on how far one wants to shoot I guess.  I myself shoot past 500 yards quite a bit so that rules out lightweight bullets for me.

My particular 25-06 is a 24" shilen barreled rem 700 and it actually gets 4000fps with a healthy charge of IMR-4831.  LIttle on the warm side, but its safe in MY rifle.  Granted its more accurate down around 3800-3900, but either way, there to dam fast to use on a regular basis as much as I like to shoot.

Offline onesonek

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Re: .243 or 25-06 Your Thoughts.
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2008, 08:30:30 AM »
Well, I agree BC's are an advantage in windy conditions. But disagree on your yardages and "in any bit of wind"
That pretty much boils down the the indivdual skill and knowledge.  Bc's/wind/ and speed become more apparent at longer to extreme range. But at 600 yds the difference bewteen a .243/6mm 55gr and 108 gr with respective velocity differences, and pending a few other parameters, you are looking at .3 moa difference in drift in a 10 mph cross. Not a major difference, not if you've done your homework, and have practiced enough at those ranges.
And at a 1000 yds you still are under 1 moa. The difference is knowing your stuff. You start pushing beyond a 1000 then, you can visualize some real differences. Some may look at 1 moa as major being 10",,,I look at it as it's only 8 clicks.  The hard part is reading whats going on in between. But I concede with the 6mm/55's, I'll change to vld's when past 800 yds. At 4-500 yds there isn't enough difference to worry about, yet you still need to know the differences. It's all knowledge and skill, it varies with individual shooters.  Saying they aren't accurate just isn't the case.
I do ? that you can get enough 4831 into the case to pick up  nearly 400 fps over book. But each barrel is un to it's own.

Dave