Author Topic: my first day with H&R 243 ultra thumb hole bbl (Read 1920 times)

dozernomore · « **on:** September 08, 2008, 04:42:07 PM »

well,,,and what a day it was,,,lol,,,,,went down yesterday morning set the target up at 100 yard's,,,JUST before the rain came,,,,,AND NOT boresighted,,,,(big mistake ),,,didn't think it would be that far off,,,(it was ),,,,,put a 4x4 sheet of cardboard,,(the 1x2 wasn't big enough ) lol,,,,,,,,still couldn't hit the card board,,,,set a coffee cup out 10 yard's,,opened the rifle up,,and bore sighted by eye,,,,(and it was way out),,,,,stared shooting again,,,,,I'm hitting the card board(woo hoo !!!),getting the windage dialed,,,,working good,,,go to dial elevation,,,( OH OH ),,,,,,set screws are loose,,and no tool's,,(another big mistake),,,now I'm starting to get a little ticked,,((( I lied I'm P@@@@D off))),,,,any way's rain was getting harder,,went home mad,,,,,went back later when the weather broke,,,getting her dialed in,,grouping is horrible,,,,but believed it's centered,,,,,boresnaked the barrel,,,,had a few different factory ammo's to try,,different grains,,,I'm ready to see who has the best grouping at a 100 yards,for final dialing of scope at 250 yards,,,,well,,the grouping was absolutely horrible on all,,,couldn't believe a heavy barrel could shoot this bad ( and NO it wasn't my shooting )),,Lil,,,,back home I go again,,MAD,,,any way's I love this site and the input everyone has,,and I definitely read the FAQ section,,,and checked a few thing's on my gun,,,and the front forestock definitely looked was my biggest problem,,,their was ample space between barrel and stock on left side,,,(could slide a business card down about half way,,,,the right side though was jammed so tight against the barrel,,that when I took stock off,,you could see where right side of barrel was touching wood,,,,so ,,took advice from FAQ section,,,sanded down left side,,,and a little on right side,,,,barrel free floating now,,and for the hell of it,,I also inserted small rubber o-ring on barrel before remounting stock,,,,now I can run a business card,,completely down the barrel,,,,,,,,went down tonight after supper,,,did a quick fouling shot..with my 2,nd choice in ammo,,then three more,,,,,,,,couldn't believe,,,,,,,( I'M HAPPY ),,lol,,,,yesterday no grouping,,best was 2"-3",,,tonight after stock modifications,,,,(and poor light condition,s),,,slightly less then 1" grouping,,can't wait to go back with my preffered ammo and better light,,,yesterday i was calling it junk,,today I like my H&R ultra thumbhole 243 heavy barrel,,,

chip-don · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2008, 01:31:03 AM »

its always hard but never be upset with a new gun till you work with it , on production rifles how they shoot at the start has little to do with how they shoot when they grow up

Country Boy · « **Reply #2 on:** September 10, 2008, 02:01:52 PM »

Good for you, I've been considering a .243 but had heard a lot of horror stories about them. That is a pretty slick trick with the O ring, might work with other rifles ? I have a basic 45-70 and it more fun than a barrel of monkies ! plus some bad abuse rolled my 4 wheeler on it and I just got back from the range to check the scope, it still shoots the same as it did 2 years ago ! three shot one hole groups at 100 yds.

dozernomore · « **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:17:51 PM »

Quote from: Country Boy on September 10, 2008, 02:01:52 PM

Good for you, I've been considering a .243 but had heard a lot of horror stories about them. That is a pretty slick trick with the O ring, might work with other rifles ? I have a basic 45-70 and it more fun than a barrel of monkies ! plus some bad abuse rolled my 4 wheeler on it and I just got back from the range to check the scope, it still shoots the same as it did 2 years ago ! three shot one hole groups at 100 yds.

make sure the forestock screw is tight,,,,lol,,,went to the range tonight,to try to tighten up my last grouping and do final sight in of scope,,,But thing's got a little loose again,,,not as bad as my first visit to range with 243,,,none the less,,very loose,,,,before I left to go to range,,I took stock off to check and clean the the frame action,,then put it back on,,,and when I got back home,,STRESSED out,,lol,,,,,gave it a good bore cleaning,(not giving up yet on this H&R) ,,,thought I would take the stock off to check thing's out AGAIN,,,the forestock screw was extremely loose,,,SO,,,I'm hoping that was my problem,,,,(it's tight now,,lol ),,,,I will post back again with my results

dozernomore · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2008, 10:33:55 AM »

well,,my third day to the range,,,,,up nice and early,,,,absolutely no wind,,,set my target up at the 300 meter mark,,,ranged it at 330 yard's,,,,shooting factory ammo,,win 80 grain,,,went through 24 round's in about 4 1/2 hour's,,,definitely no hot barrel issues,,,,and I wasn't to happy with the way it was shooting today,,even bore-snaked it after 15 round's,,,,had 3 miss-fires,,,,and no grouping at all to speak of,,,brought home went over and cleaned everything meticulously,,,noticed a a crumb or two of brass in the frame action,,,I'm hoping this is what my problem was,,,and I definitely was shutting the frame action hard enough also,,,,not giving up on her yet,,,,will post back again when ideal weather conditions allow me to shoot again,,,,,

Spanky · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2008, 11:05:06 AM »

Stop taking it apart and cleaning it so much.
My Handi's shoot better with a fouled bore.

Just my opinion but I think you are too worried right now about shooting groups.

You need to get it sighted in good before you worry about good groups. If you are trying to shoot 300 meters without even having it sighted in properly you are just asking for a bad day.

Bull barrel Handi's are generally good shooters.

Just take things one step at a time.

Spanky

dozernomore · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2008, 11:43:19 AM »

Quote from: spanky9773 on September 13, 2008, 11:05:06 AM

Stop taking it apart and cleaning it so much.
My Handi's shoot better with a fouled bore.

Just my opinion but I think you are too worried right now about shooting groups.

You need to get it sighted in good before you worry about good groups. If you are trying to shoot 300 meters without even having it sighted in properly you are just asking for a bad day.

Bull barrel Handi's are generally good shooters.

Just take things one step at a time.

Spanky

now that's something I've been meaning to discuss,,,,the first fouling shot I do after cleaning my gun,,is always high,,,about 6",,,,then they drop,,,,how many rounds should it take to foul a barrel to get somewhat consistent???
Second question,,,,I love going to the range and shooting my rifles,,,,,AND I clean them after every trip to the range,,Is this wrong?? how often should you clean them

Spanky · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2008, 12:37:59 PM »

Mine always shoot high after cleaning too.
It doesn't take much to foul the barrel, usually a couple shots or so (for mine)

To tell you the truth I don't clean my Handi's all that often. Usually after hunting season or if the groups start to open up.

I do clean my 45-70 more often though because I shoot cast lead handloads (jacketed with all the rest) and I don't want to lead up the barrel too bad. I use solvent and a brass brush then clean as usual.

I don't think I would ever say it's wrong to clean them often, I just don't think it's necessary. (my opinion and not everyone will agree with me).

I have had good luck with mine and they have all been good shooters with minimal tinkering. I'm sure your's will be a good shooter as well, just take your time and dial it in properly.

Some advice...

1. Start over.
2. Take it all apart and clean and dry everything (make sure the latch shelf is dry).
3. Mount the scope rail and scope using loctite on the screws and make sure they are tightened properly.
4. Bore sight it.
5. Take it to the range and get it hitting point of aim at 25 yds. (we call it BZO in the Marines)
6. Do not clean it!!
7. Move your target to 100 yds. and make adjustments so it hits where you want it to.

If you take it step by step and it still will not shoot well, you might try polishing the bore. (alot of guys on here have done it with good results).

Have faith, it will shoot for you!!

Spanky

Country Boy · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2008, 08:01:20 AM »

Guess I got lucky with my 45-70, I zero it 3" high at 100 yds. It is dead on at 163. I have noticed that the first shot from a clean bbl. is about 3/4 inch higher then it puts 3 in a ragged hole at 100 yds. Iwas sitting here wondering if I should clean it or not before deer season. I only shot 4 shells, so mabey I won"t. I've seldom cleaned a rifle during deer season, just leave it in the truck. My last buck was shot at 307 yds with a .243 that hadn"t been cleaned since I sighted it in a month before the season.
Personally I would send that sucker back, explain the problem and let them fix it, might have headspace problems if you are finding brass shavings. I had the same thing happen to a Win. 94 back in 1956 and they couldnt fix it. Sent me a new rifle. Good Luck

Ten Ring · « **Reply #9 on:** September 15, 2008, 09:24:25 AM »

On the subject of cleaning the bore every barrel is diferent. Back in my money match day's I started keeping a log on every rifle I shot. First entry was how many rounds from a clean bore did it take to settle down. Next is how many rounds till groups started to spread.
You would be amazed at what many consider a dirty bore will do. I believe more barrels are damaged by cleaning than being shot.
Ten Ring

dozernomore · « **Reply #10 on:** September 15, 2008, 10:24:28 AM »

thanks everyone for the advice,,,,the next time I head back to the range,,,I will note then how many shot's it takes to settle down,,,,,and not clean my rifles as much then,,,,although when going over my rifle the last day at the range,,,( and cleaned it also

)I noticed the two screws that hold the spacer forearm,,,had gotten loose,,,and it was quite dirty,,,,,I have since then re snugged the screws,,and cleaned the forestock spacer,,,,I'm willing to bet that was my problem with miss firing,,and possibly my inaccuracy,,,,,will post back my results after my next visit to the range

dozernomore · « **Reply #11 on:** September 15, 2008, 10:47:14 AM »

some thing else I should note is,,,I have probably only have around 40 rounds through my barrel and I have been reading also here,that it takes 150-200 rounds to be shot to brake in your barrel,,if that's true I still have a few more to go,,lol

dozernomore · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2008, 04:56:32 PM »

well,I have burning some more rounds through my 243 bbl,,,probably a total now of near 80 rounds,,the best I could get was 3" at 200 meters(219 yards),,,I am still cleaning though after about every twenty rounds,,,I went and seen a gunsmith,and that is was he reccommended,,,and also reccommended to put a some rounds through it to break the barrel in,,after looking at it,,,,I am a little inquisitive though if I may need a new crown,,,,I have put some white liquid paper on crown of muzzle,,just to see if i do have concentric muzzle residue,,,if I don't I'm gonna get er re-crowned...will keep you posted

STUMPJMPR · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2008, 01:36:17 AM »

I wouldn't complain about 3" at 200 meters with factory ammo that is pretty good shooting for that rifle in my opinion.... Your probably shooting around 1" at 100 meters.... What is the intended purpose of this rifle??? Deer Hunting or Varmint???

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2008, 03:27:17 AM »

I agree w/ dozer. @ 200 yards, it should at least be grouping 2". That is if your worried about holding MOA.

striker525 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2008, 09:01:36 AM »

I think that cleaning after every 20 rounds is still too much! My 223 heavy will go about 50-60 rounds before I notice any difference in the groupings. Even then I only run a dry Boresnake down her and she's right back in there. What kind of Break in did you do with the barrel? Some will say "not necessary" other will say it is, I shot five and cleaned for the first 40 rounds. Don't know if it made any difference or not but she holds 3/4" at 100yards consistently. You 243 in my opinion should be about the same when sighted in properly and, keep the cleaning gear at home. My guns never see a cleaning rod but maybe once a year twice depending on how much it's shot, the rest of the time I just run a BoreSnake down the tube.

petemi · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2008, 02:40:59 PM »

I clean mine when they're subjected to rain, humidity or dampness. Around here, that's not too infrequent. Otherwise, I leave them lightly fouled and they shoot fine. Almost everything I shoot is jacketed.

dozernomore · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2008, 04:05:09 PM »

I'm Back !!!!!!!,,well went down to the range tonight to put a few more rounds through my 243bbl,,,maybe 15 rounds,,AND I HAVEN'T CLEANED IT YET, !!!lol,,,,,,,I'm gonna leave er fouled for a few more,,,,,the liquid paper on the crown trick,,,,is hard to tell,,but does look like the the muzzle residue,isn't quite concentric around the crown,,but I'm still thinking about that one,,,the one thing I did notice though,,between my rem 770 243 win,,(which is getting better groups),,,and my 243 bbl,,is the holes in my targets are larger with 243 bbl,,then with my rem 770,,,,not by much ,but definitely visible by the naked eye,,,,,does that mean that my 243 bbl,is shooting less stable ???from possible uneven muzzle crowning

,,,BUT I'm not giving up on er yet,,,I totally believe that the 243 bbl,,,should and will perform better,,,ON Another note,,lol,,,when wiping down my gun with a little oil rag,,,I noticed where my scope mounts,mount the rifle rail,,,,They Were Loose.....sighhhhhhhh,,,,how long it's been like that..I'm not sure,,,But I bet that's not helping my 3" grouping again tonight at 200 meters,,,will keep you posted

striker525 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2008, 08:11:18 AM »

Take one mounting screw out at a time and apply some Blue Loc-Tite to them, it will end the loose mounting problems.

dozernomore · « **Reply #19 on:** September 28, 2008, 10:07:33 AM »

Quote from: dozernomore on September 15, 2008, 10:47:14 AM

some thing else I should note is,,,I have probably only have around 40 rounds through my barrel and I have been reading also here,that it takes 150-200 rounds to be shot to brake in your barrel,,if that's true I still have a few more to go,,lol

Well I'm Back,,I've had a few trips to the range now,,,,,the gunsmith,,say's still not to touch the crown yet,,he still say's to put a few more rounds through the barrel,,and it should tighten up my grouping,,,as is already mentioned in the FAQ section,,,totally skeptical about breaking the barrel in theory,,,anyway's,I hate to say it,,(lol),,,but I cleaned my rifle last night,,it had been about 30 or 40 rounds through since the last cleaning,,,AND I cleaned it good,(lol),,,anyway's the range was a little windy today,,,so I just concentrated on the 100 meter range,,trying to dial her in for 250 yards,,,federal 80g,,,like winchester better,,federal cheaper for barrel break in,,,,,WELL ,,,couldn't believe it,,,I believe my barrel is breaking in,,,,best before today was 2" or less at 100 meters,,today I'm getting around 3/4" grouping,,,,,now I'm not so skeptical about Barrel Break-in,,,,can,t wait to go back on a calm day,,,and shoot her some more,,,,will keep you posted

dozernomore · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2008, 12:44:18 PM »

I lied about the 3/4",,,(didn't really lie,,lol,) actually measured,,1.16 in. grouping,,still a vast improvement..

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** September 28, 2008, 01:00:27 PM »

Keep at it, you'll get there!!

Tim

dozernomore · « **Reply #22 on:** December 04, 2008, 04:53:34 PM »

last day at the range,,,definitely got better,,at best, a little over an 1" of moa Occassionaly..more Frequently though around 2"-3" of moa,,and still the occassional dreaded vertical stringing,,,it just couldn't out perform the rem model 770, 243,I owned,,,wich really surpised me,especially being a heavy barrel,,,so I traded both gun's in,,lol,, for the rem 700 sps varmint 22-250,,,but that another story and another section,,lol,,let's just say, I'm liking it!

OSOK · « **Reply #23 on:** December 04, 2008, 06:50:30 PM »

People can be skeptical about the barrel break-in if they want, but ever since I first read about it in the '80's I done it to all my rifles. Every one has turned out to be AT LEAST MOA shooters. Now, I'm not rollin' in the dough, so I don't buy "Names"...I buy what I can afford, and tweak it. I bought my wife a Mossberg bolt action .270 the first year they came out. My break-in proceedure is to clean it before it is ever shot, fire 1 round, and then clean it absolutely clean, especially checking for copper fouling. I do this for 10 rounds. Then I go to 2 rounds between cleaning for 20 rounds. that Mossberg .270 felt like I was running the patch accross a wire brush on the first cleaning. Now it is slick...and it shoots .75" groups. Proper break-in and cleaning up the barrel channel are usually all it takes to make shooters.

Jones · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:34:37 PM »

Quote from: striker525 on September 26, 2008, 08:11:18 AM

Take one mounting screw out at a time and apply some Blue Loc-Tite to them, it will end the loose mounting problems.

I Had that problem with my 300wsm when I was trying to develop a load for my dads elk hunt (that next week). It was still holding a 1" or so groups (surprised me). That rifle is 2 for 2 on whipping out rings?

GJ