Author Topic: Zinc melting furnace  (Read 2424 times)

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Offline Double D

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Zinc melting furnace
« on: September 09, 2008, 04:56:26 PM »
I know I am not the only one here has cast Zinc roundball.  My heat source was a heavy duty propane burner.  I want to build a better set up.

How about you other guys who melt zinc post some pictures of your zinc melters  or just tell us about them.



The weed burner underneath the pot did not generate enough heat so we had hold the flame on the metal to get a melt.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 05:52:28 PM »
Our modified turkey cooker is shown right at the end of this video.  Sorry the mold is not for round balls but other than the mold construction, the process is the same.  Propane turkey cookers cost about $40. on sale at the big home supply stores.  You may be able to find them cheaper.  They come with a nice big pot that you don't use for zinc melting, but maybe your wife would like it for something else, maybe stew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y36zlWQJU9Y

Offline ShadowMover

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 09:25:01 AM »
I've melted Zinc and Zinc/Aluminum (die-cast) on a gasoline plumber's pot. It takes longer than Lead, but it will work. When you are heating up large chunks of metal in big pots you lose a lot of heat through air circulation. If you make yourself a wind shield around the pot it will speed up the heating. On windy days it's the only thing that will allow melting the Zinc/ Aluminum alloys. If you want to speed up your melting with the weed burner, try building a little shelter out of dry bricks. Put the pot on a couple of fire bricks to allow heat to get to the bottom. Be sure to allow for an airflow to allow the burned gasses to chimney away. Another possibility is to just dig a pit and allow the flame to warm the pot.
Old plumber's pots can occasionally be found rusting and covered with dust. They usually require a new leather in the pump and a cleaning of the gas generator. Rust in the tank is a bad sign. They were made to run on white gas, but I've run them on kerosene, parts cleaning solvent (Stoddard Safety), and Coleman fuel, or a mix of all three. Stay away from anything that will form charcoal in the generator, like vegetable oil or some blends of Diesel.  Later models were propane fueled, and a little more energetic than turkey frying burners, but not as plentiful.

Nice picture BTW, showing the preheating of the mold.

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 02:35:12 AM »
There's a website somewhere, can't seem to find it now, showing how a guy built a nice efficient furnace out of a metal garbage can with a ceramic chimney flue thing inside.  Both items were fairly inexpensive.  Forgot what his torch within the thing was, may have been a weed burner.

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 09:33:40 AM »
I use a high school shop foundry furnace.  When the local high schools went high tech they were scrapping the the foundry programs. 
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 11:37:38 AM »
I HAD one of those for years.  Never did find anything I'd want bad enough to make a pattern for.

Gave it to a machinist friend.

THEN I got into cannons.   ::)
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 11:54:37 AM »
When the local high schools went high tech they were scrapping the the foundry programs.

It's kind of ironic that they would keep the foundry for the art department (bronze sculpture) but get rid of it for industrial ed.  Guess that's what we get for letting educators decide what should be taught.
GG
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Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 02:20:17 PM »
Curriculum changes tend to be driven by forces outside of the classrooms.  In Michigan the State provides added funds for vocational education, but none for Industrial Education, and then defines what is acceptable curriculum.  Exploratory Industrial Education classes have all but disappeared in the high schools. 
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 02:29:26 PM »
Exploratory Industrial Education classes have all but disappeared in the high schools.

The various arts type subjects have a much greater and louder constituency in the educational bureaucracy than do Industrial Arts (which are really technology subjects anyway.)  But secondary education these days is about getting everyone into college because "college grads make lots more money" than high school grads.

On the average that is true, but when one looks at the details, the grads in the arts and humanities make lots less than the grads in technology.  The average is driven up by grads who work in useful fields but the incoming students are told that all grads make more, not that 13th century English lit majors mostly work at the Golden Arches.
GG
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Offline Double D

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 03:14:18 PM »
So I should watch school auction for foundery gear, huh?

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 04:05:03 PM »
So I should watch school auction for foundery gear, huh?

Of course!  But don't get your hopes up - I bought mine 15 years ago.  The changes have been made.  On the flip side that means there are a few of these things floating around - you might well find one by asking around.

They're merely a cylinder lined with firebrick with a fan powered blower and a heavy lid that is lifted with a leaver.  If you find one it makes life easy; but they're not hard to replicate with a little effort and a bucket of refractory cement.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 04:22:32 PM »
if you got a day or two to spare , then you could go to :   www.backyardmetalcasting.com
there you find all info you either want or need and lots more .
but its dangerous to go there , 5 hours just run away .
but there is any info needed to make an semi professional foundry for just a few $$
but ok it includes some work also  ;-)

if you know someone working with pottery you could have them to do the crucibles .

I searched by google for backyard casting and got 1 600 000 hits .

all info is out there in the cyber space  ;-)
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 04:28:48 PM »
cw

you can make your own homemade refractory for almost nothing ,
mix ordinary clay with water and add kitty litter .
it aint as good as factory made , but for bronze its good enough and doesnt cost almost anything

BUT ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR AS HIGH TEMPS AS NEEDED FOR IRON CASTING
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 04:35:13 PM »
the burner you could run on used motor oil

there is many styles of burners

first model is based on an old acetylene and oxygen torch

sorry about the swedish writing
but its easy , the pipe in the middle have an mig welding nozzle in the end  ( 0,6 or 0,8 mm depending on how much air you need ) , there is the compressed air comming , its treaded in the backwall of the outer pipe , when you turn it anti clockvise you open up the gap gethween the 2 cones ( 10 degrees ) and you get more oil . then just test with different pressures until it burns perfect .

you can also use cooking oil , if you have any kentucky fried chicken store near you have as much oil as you ever will or can burn for free , they need to pay to get rid of their waste oil .
this is real recycling   ;D ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 05:07:13 PM »
there is also an yahoo group for backyard casting
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2008, 01:29:59 AM »
I haven't used any fuel except propane, it is just too easy to get and to handle in the 2-gallon (or whatever they are) jugs you get it in, same kind as used on outdoor cooking grills.

A friend of mine melts kirksite and zinc scrap he gets to put it into ingots.  He has a pipe threaded into bottom of a cutoff 55 gal drum that's up on cinder blocks.  The pipe is capped until pour time.  He uses three weed burners, two underneath and one on top.  This of course wastes some energy since there's no insulation.  I don't advocate one way or the other, just telling you what he does.  I dont' like idea of heating the metal twice since every time you lose some due to the dross that is formed, and each time you melt the metal it costs you in fuel.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2008, 04:42:49 AM »
well it depends how much you pay for the fuel   ;D
if you use free oil and just some compressed air then its no big cost .
about to heat and melt it one or two times ?? thats up to how much work you want to put into it or what rawmaterial source you have , if you buy pure metal ingots you dont need it .
but if you do as I do and clean up your local tire shops for balancing weights you can either sit and sort them for a few days or do it as I described earlier .

ok I know Im lazy , you dont need to tell me   ;D ;D ;D
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Eyes Of Death

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2008, 09:44:09 AM »
D D hears the only pic of my homemade furnice it runs on propane and uses forced air combustion. This one will melt copper at the upper limits of this furnice. Made from a 20lb propane cylinder. And I used bought refractory witch is also at it's tempter limits. Holds 15lb of lead. Let me know what you need help with.

Offline Don Krag

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2008, 06:23:47 PM »
I pretty much use this one for all melting. I've changed the burner a bit from what is described here, since it's been several years since I first did this web page. I recently used it to cast 180 lb lead radiation detector shields. I used the bottom 10" of an old gas cylinder for a crucible to melt about 60 lbs at once. I could have melted about 100 lbs...but I can't handle the weight! I use a blower and can tune it to run at lower temps...kind of. It eventually comes to equalibrium around 2200*f even on the lowest setting so you have to watch your melt close with low melting point metals. I've never melted zinc, but I have done magnesium by accident. That was a very "bright" experience.:)

http://www.100megsfree3.com/kragaxe/shop/furnaces/Rosie.html
Don "Krag" Halter
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2008, 08:28:25 PM »
Looks like fun.  Now for one big enough for a No. 90 crucible and a mountain howitzer pour.
GG
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Offline Don Krag

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 12:47:20 PM »
On full tilt at 20 psig and the blower on, mine can do 2800+*F, but only has an interior about 8" x 18" and needs sufficient room for even heating.

Here's one of the 2800*F furnaces I've been working with lately. I think it would fit quite a few of those crucibles...and this is one of the smaller ones at 128' long and 7.5' ID. Maybe I can convince them that melting several hundred pounds of bronze is needed for research. :) Of course, getting the crucible in and out may be problematic. Hah!


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Offline Double D

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2008, 05:00:27 PM »
Looks like fun.  Now for one big enough for a No. 90 crucible and a mountain howitzer pour.

George, could this be the one http://montana.craigslist.org/for/836572686.html

Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2008, 08:23:04 PM »
This looks like a nice birthday present, Double D. It would make a good work in progress since it needs a new crucible.
Might be kinda heavy, tho. And you might have to reconfigure one of the guest cottages to hold it.   ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Don Krag

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2008, 04:29:21 AM »
Must be one of those big electric arc/resistance furnaces that hang off a big overhead system. Too bad there's no pics. The guy selling it probably isn't the one who actually used it since he doesn't know the difference between melting and smelting. If it is a big electric one, I wonder what your electric bill would be after a couple melts! ???
Don "Krag" Halter
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2008, 04:36:54 AM »
sorry to interupt , but as an average swede my skills in the english language aint the best .
I have seen both the word melt and smelt been used in different occasions , whats the difference ?+
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2008, 09:08:32 AM »
Smelting is a metallurgical thermal processing operation in which the metal or matte is separated in fused form from nonmetallic materials or other undesired metals with which it is associated.

Melting is simply the changing from solid to liquid forms.

I think that Billings furnace is a little over my range.
GG
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Offline Don Krag

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2008, 07:58:27 AM »
In very simple terms.....Smelting is used to get the metal from the ore. Melting is just heating the metal until it melts.


C'mon George...you buy it and set it up, and we'll bring the beer. :)
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Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2008, 08:26:37 AM »
just let me know when it will be and I will come wits some swedish beer and 2 full size lost wax molds for an early 1600 style 24 pounder   ::) ::)

WHAT ??  must I bring my own bronze ??   >:( >:(

by the way , as we already got into the language education here .
Ive seen both native americans and others used both mold and mould when they talking of something to pour the molten metal in when casting ,  whats correct ??
I believe its mold , mould isnt that the nasty green stuff you find on your cheese when its attacking you when you open the door to the refridgerator ??   ;D ;D
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2008, 09:13:51 AM »
Dan, either is correct on this board.

Offline dan610324

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Re: Zinc melting furnace
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2008, 09:53:23 AM »
oooohh thats an diplomatic ansver  ;-)
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry