200 grain bullets in 35 Whelen

[rickt300]

I only had 16 pieces of empty brass for my Whelen when I decided to load up some 200 grain mild deer loads. I used the same powder charge 54.0 grains of AA2520 under the 200 grain Hornady Spire point and the 200 grain Remington RNCL. I loaded the latter bulet to the cannelure as it has a short bearing surface and not a lot of caliber size diameter to cover with case neck. I loaded the Hornady bullet a bit out, the cannelure being some above the case mouth. My guess is this powder charge gives somewhere around 2500 fps out of my 19 inch barrel. At any rate AA2520 burns really clean at lower pressures and the 200 grain Hornady bullet shot two 3 shot groups near an inch.  The Remington bullets were barely able to stay inside 3 inches.  Previous testing with the RNCL and H414 having the bullet seated out to where less than .1 of the bullet base was covered with case neck gave groups under 1 1/2 inch easily but I felt this might be a bit fragile, holding so little bullet. I have few of the Hornady bullets left, enough to hunt with this year but I have 400 or so of the RNCL's. Which figures.

[Lone Star]

The 200 RNCL bullets are designed for the .35 Remington velocity window, and they may be a bit soft at top Whelen velocities.  At 2500 they may work fine, especially over 100 yards. Less than 0.1" of bullet inside the neck is not enough for reliable use in the field IMO. 


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[rickt300]

I guess ammo grouping around 3 inches is supposedly good enough for hunting but I am going to pass on it.

[AtlLaw]

I started playing with the 180 gr Speers this year.  Up to 2800 fps with 3 under an inch at 100yds outa my 700 CDL.  If I run out of time for this deer season I'll stay with that load and be happy.     Otherwise I'm curious to see how close I can get to 3K!   

[rickt300]

My Accurate Arms loading manual states that 54.5 grains of AA 2520 gives 2564 fps under the 180 grain Speer FN bullet and 60.5 grains gives 2914 fps at 48.500 PSI and it's not a compressed load either. This from a 24 inch barreled 35 Whelen. I have some 180 grain Hornady single shot pistol bullets but feel this may just be too fast for them. At any rate a 35 caliber 180 grain bullet at 2900 fps might be a bit hard on a deer.

[AtlLaw]

a 35 caliber 180 grain bullet at 2900 fps might be a bit hard on a deer.

Well, ya never know till you try!     I agree though.  I probably will just settle on the 2800 fps load and confirm a 200 yd zero before season (next month!) so I have time to work with other, more finiky, rifles.   

I have some 180 grain Hornady single shot pistol bullets but feel this (2900fps ed.) may just be too fast for them.

I would think so!     I have read that the Speers are comparatively stoutly constructed.  One author saying to stout for 35 Rem velocities and another saying their design twin, the 220 gr. gave him elk width penetration.  I figger that ought to make them just right for deer sized critters at the higher velocity!     I wish I started developing a load with them for my .358 rather then the 200 gr PSPCL's!

[BBF]

both Speer 35 cal bullets are well constructed  but not so hard that they won't open up sufficiently at 35 Rem velocities.
I have used both weights in  35 Rem, 35 Whelen and 350 Rem Mag. Either wuold be my bullet of choice depending on which one the rifle likes better.

[STexhunter]

I shoot 200 gr. Remington SP's and Hornady RN's in a Savage bolt gun I converted to 35 Whelen with an A&B barrel.  Barrel is rough on the inside and coppers up but, both group 1.25 consisently occasionly opening up to 1.75 at 100 yds. with 53.5 - 55.0 grs. of 4064. I seat the just to the cannelure no crimp.  Loads of 53.5 to 55 grs. of 4064 I get 2500 fps or a tad over.  I think I've got to the point of diminishing returns with 4064.  Remington factory 200 gr and 250 gr. both shoot 1.25 at 100yds.  1.25 seems to be the norm with this rifle.  Even though people load more 4064 than I do, I just don't know if I want too.  May try some RL 15.  Just my 2 cents worth.  I really like the 35 Whelen.     

[rickt300]

My barrel is also from A&B. This one is very smooth and has yet to show any copper fouling. I have heard good results using JB bore paste on tight patches.  I have yet to put a bore brush in my barrel.

[AtlLaw]

I shoot 200 gr. Remington SP's ... Loads of 53.5 to 55 grs. of 4064 I get 2500 fps or a tad over. ... Remington factory 200 gr and 250 gr. both shoot 1.25 at 100yds.

I don't have my notes here at the computer, but I think Remington factory ammo clocks about 2640 - as best I remember - outa my 700 CDL.  That speed was not hard to duplicate with handloads and was my hunting load last year.  I also got about 1.25 inches at 100 yds.  You may want to try stepping up your velocity and see if that brings your group size down some.  Especially since you say:

1.25 seems to be the norm with this rifle.

May try some RL 15.

There are a lot of good powders out there for the Whelen.  I'm using IMR 3031 with 180 gr. Speers and still working up toward 3K fps.... just for grins!     But I'm getting sub MOA groups at 2800 fps... 

I really like the 35 Whelen.

Me to!  But then I can't really think of a caliber I don't like...  Well, there is that 24 caliber thing... 

[rickt300]

Heck I even like the 24's.  Funny though I have never owned a 25 caliber rifle of my own.

[AtlLaw]

Heck I even like the 24's.  ... I have never owned a 25 caliber rifle ...

Get a Bob (257 Roberts)!  You'll through rocks at the 24's!   

I really shouldn't post this!!!   

[GradyL41]

for what this is worth-- I used the 200 Hornady and SPCL in my .358s for many years-- they have been accurate and kill well-- I can easily hit a deer right at 250 -260 yards but the bullet has slowed down too much for that range-- so I do not get around fields as often but they are still working at 225 or so- in the woods no problems -- mv was 2490 - 2610 just depends on which rifle and the load - now I use the 220s and will try the 250 speer this year- the 220 for me have expanded very well but have not shot anything long with them-- and my only other rifle calibur is a .25--25.06 -- I have 2 35s and a 25 --plus a nice 30.06 I never shoot

[dpe.ahoy]

Yep, the BOB will do anything the 24's will do plus more.  Ordered a AB barrel for a Savage that was 243, and found a screaming deal on a Ruger MKII that had less than 30 rounds through it, so It followed me home.   My 25-06 shoots a little flatter, but doesn't kill any quicker.  DP

[Cecil]

I just tested some loads for a Ruger Hawkeye Whelen yesterday . the best was with 200 gr Rem corloke at 57 gr of Reloader 15 it shot under 1 inch at 100 yards! So maybe there's hope for your rem bullets yet.

[AtlLaw]

200 gr Rem corloke at 57 gr of Reloader 15

Now I got enough REL15 for a few loads but was trying to get away from using it since it seems there is always something I liked a little better in a given application.  So if I try it and like it... 

What velocity did that charge give you?   

[Cecil]

Atllaw I didn't have my chrony with me but I think they should be over 2400 fps some where near 2470 fps. I loaded up to 59 gr but 57 shot the best.

[AtlLaw]

they should be over 2400 fps some where near 2470 fps. I loaded up to 59 gr but 57 shot the best.

After I check out the load, no insult to you, just a firm and fast practice of mine, I'll load up 3 to take to the range tomorrow.  I believe my M700's barrel is 24 inches.  How long is yours... barrel that is!   

[Cecil]

Mine is a ruger hawkeye with a 22 inch barrel was hoping the 59gr loads would work but 57 gr shot the best in mine. Would like to know what your chronograph read?

[AtlLaw]

Would like to know what your chronograph read?

No problemo!  I'll try to post the results tomorrow unless something happens and I don't get to the range!

[AtlLaw]

Pretty darn good load!   
Average for 3 shots was 2680 fps, remember, that's outa a 24 inch barrel.  group size was .870.     Heck!  I'd use that for a hunting load this year if I wasn't getting even better groups with the 180 gr. Speer @ 2800 fps!  I'll take a picture of the group and post it first chance I get!   

[Cecil]

I am impressed with the vel thought it might be lower but I am sure its a little lower in a 22 inch barrel.

[WyoStillhunter]

The beauty of the 35 Whelen is that you don't have to drive the bullets into Warp Drive to get good effect on game.  Anything over 2200 fps will work.

Of course, I don't try to turn the Whelen into a long range magnum.  I just use it within its comfort zone.  My load for elk this season runs just a little over 2400 fps MV with Speer 250 gr. Spitzer.

For commercial ammo the Federal 225 gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is hard to beat for everything from small antelope through large elk.

[AtlLaw]

I am impressed with the vel thought it might be lower but I am sure its a little lower in a 22 inch barrel.

The Remington 200 gr. factory load clocks about 40 fps slower then your load outa my rifle and is nowhere near as accurate.  I should think you are getting around 2600 fps plus from your Ruger and we know the accuracy is there!      But I go along with WyStilHunt's philosophy, use what your rifle likes, velocity-bullet-accuracy wise.  Seems like that is, in our combined experience, 2400 fps w/250 gr., 2600 fps w/200 gr. and 2800 fps w/180 gr.  Not a bad range of weights and velocities at all!   

[Skunk]

This is a good thread. Thanks guys for doing some work on the 35 Whelen loads. I think that using 2400 fps w/250 gr., 2600 fps w/200 gr. and 2800 fps w/180 gr., for a rule of thumb is an excellent beginning. I have this caliber and I'm planning to start loading for it in the future, and this thread has given me some extra motivation a good starting place.

[K-1]

Last yr. I took a immature (2x3) moose with a 200gr. Hornady IL. at 137yd's. First shot was an 'in & out' through the liver. The second one was into the right shoulder and found in the hide on the left side. That load was with 60gr. RL. 15. This yr. I am trying 225gr. Sierra SBT with 59gr. of RL15. This load is getting me a 6 shot group (3 from each gun, 2 Rem CDL's) 3in. high at 125yd. Having 2 rifles that like the same load makes it easier for reloading.

[Cecil]

AtlLaw,   I use to load and check vel with a chrony but decided I was chasing vel to much and was not finding the best accuracy so now I find the load that shoots the best then check the velocity for sight setting. This seems to work better for me

[WyoStillhunter]

Velocity is the girl the boys want to date but accuracy is the one to marry for a lifetime.

African hunters, that is people who live and hunt in Africa year in and year out, will tell you that moderate velocity with bullets that are appropriate to the caliber will achieve the best balance of penetration and wound channel.  Sure, there may be a short tracking job but accurately placed such rounds are consistently effective.

The lure of velocity seems to stem from two fantasies: straight as a string trajectory and DRT/drop on the spot killing power.  The first is unnecessary for skilled hunter/marksmen.  The second is unrealistic to expect.

The Golden Mean, the via media, of adequate power generated by good bullets that shoot accurately at moderate-for-caliber velocity coupled with solid hunting skills will put meat on the table season after season.  End of sermon.

[AtlLaw]

Velocity is the girl the boys want to date but accuracy is the one to marry for a lifetime. <snip> The Golden Mean, the via media, of adequate power generated by good bullets that shoot accurately at moderate-for-caliber velocity coupled with solid hunting skills will put meat on the table season after season.  End of sermon.

AMEN Brother!  Say it again!  Hallijulia!  I believe!!     'course I may say "good, heavy-for-caliber bullets."   

now I find the load that shoots the best then check the velocity for sight setting.

I tell ya, the siren song of velocity is a hard thing to ignore.  My Whelen is putting 3 180's into 3/4 inch @2800.  You don't know hard it was to stop there for this deer season, just because I KNOW there is more throttle to be had, up to about 3K.

And, as far as a chronograph goes, I won't punch paper in load work without one.  If mine goes down I break into a sweat, start shaking and cry uncontrollably...    I was shooting late yesterday evening and the light ran out just before my last string.  So no readings from my chronograph, only {err}.    Now I've fired my max load tried in the 270 I was shooting... AND I DON'T KNOW HOW FAST IT WAS GOING!!!!!     You just don't know the emotional distress I'm suffering!    

[bajabill]

My data to add

24" barrel, sierra 225 spbt,   56.5 gr RE15 -  2600 fps,    3380 flbs ME

                      rem 200 sp,  57.8 gr RE 15  -   2730 fps
                                           58.5 gr RE 15  -   2750 fps


I intend to hunt with the 225s, and they are much better groups than the rem 200s.