Author Topic: If the 7 x 30 Waters is so good (Read 2893 times)

PJ · « **on:** December 15, 2002, 02:25:23 PM »

You got me :roll: I went for the 7x30 Factory Super-14.WhyI did well...better bullets, just as fast and just as accurate.

Camel 23 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2002, 02:25:39 PM »

I have been hunting for almost 30 years now and I didn't pass by the 7-30 waters and I'm glad I didn't. I didn't pay an arm and a leg for my barrel and I am pleased with it's performance. Are there better options out there? Maybe. Is the 7-30 a good one? Yup!

Bill In SC · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2002, 03:23:16 PM »

That is a good question. Here is my .02 worth.

The 7-30 barrel can be had for about 1/2 of the price, sometimes even more if you come upon a good used deal like I did.

Factory ammo is available. The choice of bullets is greater, there is tons of data out there for reloading it.

That is a few reasons why the 7-30 is so popular.

The 6.5JDJ on the other had is a great cartridge. Some folks just like to have something that is "Uncommon" I guess. Not nocking it, but I'll keep my 7-30.

Took my first Handgun White Tail with it this year, and hope to get more with it. Along with the .30 Herrett, and the old 30-30... :-)

Steve P · « **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2002, 06:44:48 AM »

When the 7x30 waters barrel was available, I had the $ to grab it. I was also able to get dies for a reasonable price. Took my deer last year at 275 paced off yards. Dropped like a rock.

If I had about $300 and another $100 for dies, I would go for the 6.5 JDJ also. Not because I need one, nor because I dont have a barrel that will do everything the JDJ will do....but only because I don't have one!! I think that is why i purchased the last umpteen TC barrels I have.

I think the analogy above about the trucks is right on. Some people think the high $$ barrels are that much better, or put them in higher esteem with other folks. Out of all of my contender barrels, my "high class" barrels would be the first to go. I have stock T/C barrels that will outshoot them any day.

Have a happy Holiday!

Steve

Selmer · « **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2002, 09:28:57 AM »

Hey coyotero, your Ford will do anything a Dodge will do and my Chevy suburban will pull both of you out!

j/k, you're right on with that statement, although my best hutning buddy has a 95 dodge with the 361 and I can out bog him and snowplow him anywhere. I think it's the wonderful back weight on the suburban.
Selmer

Selmer · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2002, 02:56:20 AM »

Watch out Globetrotter, you're treading on thin ice with the blue collar ugly step-sister comments. I don't shoot a 7x30 Waters or a 6.5 JDJ for that matter, but I have a feeling that us blue collar guys made TC what it is because we wanted our toys to play with after work. Not everyone can afford an SSK barrel, and I would wager that thousands more critters have been killed with factory TC barrels than with custom. I drool at the though of a Tactical .20 of .20 PPC from Virgin Valley or VanHorn barrels though.
Selmer

Dalton · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2002, 03:31:17 AM »

Quote from: Globetrotter

The 6.5 JDJ is a far better round for the smart handgun hunter. In like bullet weights it offers higher ballistic coefficients and sectional density. The 7 x 30 Waters is okay for deer, the 6.5 JDJ had been proven on far bigger game. The 7x 30 plays catch up to the Waters in nearly every aspect. I believe that is why top global hunters use this round, and the blue collar deer deer boys buy the cheap ugly step sister 7 x 30 Waters. The case life is far better on the JDJ round also.

Like most things in life you get what you pay for. Of course the poor boys get upset with that simple truth, unfortunately it is 100% accurate, like it or not.

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That is a load of Barbara Streisand. These cartridges are ballistically nearly identical. I would give a slight edge in B.C. to the JDJ round in bullets weighing 120-140gr., but sectional density is nearly identical between 6.5mm and 7mm bullets.

Both the 6.5JDJ and the 7-30 Waters are excellent choices for deer rounds in a pistol, and I see no evidence to show that one will out perform the other. Here is why I chose the 7-30 Waters.

1.)Cheap Brass (30-30Win VS 225Win)
2.)More Bullet Choice (much more available in 7mm)
3.)No custom dies required
4.)Factory ammo available if needed
5.)Factory barrels available

Hey Globetrotter, do you want to explain just exactly what you mean by "Blue Collar"?

WildcatTC · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2002, 03:59:09 AM »

Hey Globetrotter

What makes you think that any game that has been taken with your high priced 6.5 knows he is any more dead than shot with a blue collar 7 X 30?

I am not knocking JDJ's I have one 309 myself but it's not a must take it on the hunt bbl.

just because you can afford to buy a high price BBL doesn't mean you have a head on your shoulders own and shoot one.NOW DOES IT? :evil:

KYODE · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2002, 04:16:14 AM »

:twisted: backin you up wildcat. the smart handgun hunter can actually shoot one, can you? reckon you'd know one if you seen it? money can't buy success or friends you're definately not makin. :evil:
how many barrels you shot anyway? your just blabbin. it's plain to see you don't have a clue. :x
if either has an advantage it would be small and dead deer either way. :roll:
sometimes you spend money just to look big. did you?

i'm a rich man, i got friends. wealth is not measured by how much money you got, or what you have to show off .
sheww! some peoples kids,

WildcatTC · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2002, 04:49:34 AM »

I think you have hit the Nail on the head Sir Kyote

Selmer · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2002, 04:56:22 AM »

Thanks for backing up my comments boys, it's good to have asecond opinion that agrees. I'm a teacher in Iowa, nuff said about my financial status. (if you don't know, that means i'm lower middle class)
Selmer

B_Koes · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2002, 05:20:31 AM »

I may not be the most high faylootin feller in here, but I think the 6.5JDJ (and other rounds based on the .264" caliber) are better choices for handguns than the 7-30 Waters. Granted, the difference in ballistics isn't that much, but more importantly than exterior ballistics is bullet construction. This is where the 6.5mm wins hands-down! Sure there are more .284" bullets, but more of them are designed for use with 7mm Mags which have a lot higher working velocities. The 6.5 bullets were designed for effective expansion in the medium velocity range which fits nicely with the 6.5JDJ.

Let's compare 120gr bullets for both calibers...

Nosler 7mm 120gr ballistic tips have a BC of .417

Lapua 6.5mm 123gr Scenar bullets have a BC of .547!!
Nosler 6.5mm 120gr ballistic tips have a BC of .458
(Section density award will obviously go the the 6.5 as well)

It don't take no engyneeeer to figger out that the 6.5 will penetrate deeper and expand at farther ranges.

So go buy whatever you can afford, just don't fool yourself into thinking that the 7-30 is better. Effective...yes! It also has lots of practical advantages which you have already mentioned, but when you're looking for the absolute best...get a 6.5 based round.

WildcatTC · « **Reply #12 on:** December 17, 2002, 05:34:57 AM »

:evil: Well BC is all well and good but the fact remines you have to know what you bulleet is going to do down range.I shoot enough and watch my reloads to a point that I KNOW were they are going to hit no matter what the BC is

.So no matter whether the bullet shoot on a rope or shoots like a small rainbow this Blue collar shooter will hit what you can hit cuz I know where it is going to hit

PJ · « **Reply #13 on:** December 17, 2002, 06:42:54 AM »

Unfortunately you are 100% wrong

Take a 225Win case it has a cup of 50,000 now take a 375Win case(not a 30-30case) to make a 7x30 and it too has a cup of 50,000 same cup level as the 225Win.The 6.5jdj will push a 120grNBT 2400fps the 7x30 using a 375 case will push a 120grNBT 2500+ hmmmm.......looks like the 6.5 is now playing catch up too me.

So go ahead and pay twice as much for your 6.5 stupid Because, this poor boy will out shoot and kick your ASS

Quote from: Globetrotter

The 6.5 JDJ is a far better round for the smart handgun hunter. In like bullet weights it offers higher ballistic coefficients and sectional density. The 7 x 30 Waters is okay for deer, the 6.5 JDJ had been proven on far bigger game. The 7x 30 plays catch up to the Waters in nearly every aspect. I believe that is why top global hunters use this round, and the blue collar deer deer boys buy the cheap ugly step sister 7 x 30 Waters. The case life is far better on the JDJ round also.

Like most things in life you get what you pay for. Of course the poor boys get upset with that simple truth, unfortunately it is 100% accurate, like it or not.

Steve P · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2002, 06:58:24 AM »

:-D You posted the BC for the Scenar in 6.5. How about one for the Scenar in 7mm? Let's bring up specialty bullets, but lets talk apples and apples and oranges and oranges. You proved yourself how close the BC is between 6.5 and 7mm with the two Nosler Bullets.

The deer I got last year dropped like a rock. It never even knew the difference between 6.5 mm and 7mm bullets.

I shoot silhouette at least once a month. None of those critters that fall know the difference between my 7x30 waters, 7TCU, 6.5TCU or 6.5BR.

If picking a 10" Contender barrel for deer hunting, I would grab that 7TCU every time over the 6.5TCU. I've seen the difference in knockdown at 200 meters with given weight bullets.

Last year I chose the 7x30 waters over the 6.5BR. Just because I had proven hunting bullets loaded and ready to go for it. I don't think any critter under about 500 pounds would be able to tell the difference between them out to about 250-300 yards. Beyond that, I wouldn't shoot either of them from a handgun.

If we start comparing ballistic coefficients, I guess I should forget about ever using my 357supermag with Nosler Partitions, my 44 mag, 41 mag, and few other in the safe. It doesn't matter that every one of them have taken elk, because I now know the 6.5 JDJ is going to be better, no matter what I shoot!! :?

Anyone want to buy some contender barrels? I got a whole lot of useless ones now! :-D

Have a happy Holiday

Steve

KYODE · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2002, 07:59:32 AM »

:-D well, since we're talkin sectional density stuff. someone hung theirself. this is handguns and different rules apply. a 6.5 may have a higher s.d. and may penetrate BUT the question is will it expand? a little lower s.d is what you want in handguns to get the right expansion at reduced velocity compared to the same bullet out of a rifle barrel. thats why, generally speaking, you use a 120gr 7mm, 125gr .30cal,80gr 6mm. etc. :roll:

PJ · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2002, 08:42:12 AM »

Unfortunately you are 100% wrong,like it are not. :lol: Take a 225Win case it has a cup of 50,000 the 7x30 using a 375Win case not(a 30-30 case) has a cup of 50,000.The 6.5jdj will push a 120grNBT @2400fps.The 7x30 using a 375 case will push a 120grNBT @2500fps+hmmmmmmm......Sounds like the 6.5jdj is playing catch up too me.

Quote from: Globetrotter

The 6.5 JDJ is a far better round for the smart handgun hunter. In like bullet weights it offers higher ballistic coefficients and sectional density. The 7 x 30 Waters is okay for deer, the 6.5 JDJ had been proven on far bigger game. The 7x 30 plays catch up to the Waters in nearly every aspect. I believe that is why top global hunters use this round, and the blue collar deer deer boys buy the cheap ugly step sister 7 x 30 Waters. The case life is far better on the JDJ round also.

Like most things in life you get what you pay for. Of course the poor boys get upset with that simple truth, unfortunately it is 100% accurate, like it or not.

BruceP · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2002, 09:27:49 AM »

T/CHarvey,
In another post you knock the 300 whisper as not being as good a round as the 7 TCU. Now you knock the 7-30 Waters as not being as good as the 6.5 JDJ. Now since the 7-30 Waters uses the same bullets as7 TCU but at a higher velocity what gives here. Why do you like one 7mm but not the other. Is it just that you want to pick your favorites and knock the rest or what. I mean if we want to talk about more killing power then why not step up to the Encore and a 7-08, or a 7mm Rem. mag even. Heck the 300Weatherby mag is a better elk cartridge in a rifle than a 30-06 but I bet more elk have fallen to the 06.
By the way I dont mean to knock you way of thinking to much. After all that is why I got a great deal on my used contender in 300 Whisper after it sat in the store for over a year.
BruceP

WildcatTC · « **Reply #18 on:** December 17, 2002, 10:21:49 AM »

BruceP

maybe I did say something about the 300 whisper but I dont think so .I never even seen a 300 whisper round so I dont think I would be bashing it. If I did please send a copy of the post to refresh my memory

BruceP · « **Reply #19 on:** December 17, 2002, 03:57:35 PM »

WildcatTC, I have to apologize to you. I got your handle and TCHarvey mixed up. I should have directed the question to him and not you. Your post is actually more to my thinking on the subject. Sorry I will go in and edit my first post.
BruceP

B_Koes · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2002, 05:27:11 AM »

The previous post was from me...didn't realize I wasn't logged in. I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to hide from my answer.