Author Topic: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?  (Read 1936 times)

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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« on: September 13, 2008, 03:19:03 PM »
Interesting article about the most accurate factory bolt actions.....  I just read it yesterday, then I left the issue at my cousins house.

Top 5, rated best group to worst group average, off the bench:

Weatherby Vanguard SS MOA
T/C Icon
Savage 110
Marlin XL7
Mossberg ATR

All of these averaged less than MOA.

Remington 700 was 2nd to last, Winchester Model 70 was last place.  The 700 average was 1.45" and the Model 70 was slightly higher.  Most other bolt actions ranked in between the Mossberg and the Remington.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2008, 08:45:53 PM »
Sorry they must be wrong  ::) everybody knows that Remingtons are the most accurate out of the box rifle............................................... after a certain member keeps telling us it's so  :( So it must be true  ;)

No I didn't read it as unless I special order it the magazine is nto available here  :(

Offline Mckie Hollow

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2008, 11:53:18 PM »
You take 50 of each, and I'll bet that Rems. will be on top. Except, maybe for those that come with a target that it had never shot.

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2008, 01:19:42 AM »
I know how this will go......then it'll be take 100, then take 200.......

Offline Swampman

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 02:26:58 AM »
Whoever pays for the most advertizing in the magazine, gets the most favorable review.  You all know this to be the truth.  In over 40 years of shooting I've never seen a Remington that shot over MOA right out of the box with factory ammo.  Most were 1/2 MOA or better.

Of the top 5 listed I'd consider owning the Marlin XL7 & the Mossberg ATR.  They are good rifles for the money.


"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Freezer

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 02:52:07 AM »
   The only gun reviews I really trust are from GUN TEST.  They buy their weapons from a store like the rest of us, no donors.  Though I do believe the order they came in I can't seee a Remington shooting that bad.

Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2008, 03:21:15 AM »
Gun Tests is the only magazine that I have canceled before the subscription ran out, it just seemed like a couple of bubbas wrote the articles and reported on their (very) limited experience.
It seems to me with the internet most magazines are struggling to keep subscribers and are writing what they think the general public, and their paid advertisers, want to hear.

Offline buckfever 1

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 04:35:01 AM »
Guess Sako and Tikka wern't willing to pay up or buy advertising.  Almost every brand has shooters that is what makes it so tough for many brands.  You have to get lucky.   I have a Tikka T3 in 30-06 and 6.5x55.  The 6.5x55 is the most accurate firearm I have ever owned.  The 30-06 will shoot right around an 1".  It is a good firearm but it is not a pure tack driver , never will be.  So even in a firearm knowen for accuracy there are differences from firearm to firearm.  My 30-06 is used for Tree stands and in the bush and it works just fine for what I use it for.   Buckfever

Offline BRL

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 04:56:06 AM »
I started a health and fitness magazine in 1992, grew it over 7 years and then sold it. The magazine industry is one of the most corrupt industries there is. I would get articles submitted from "writers" for print in the magazine all the time that were so far from the truth and stretched out of proportion. I would say to the writer..."I can't print this article, it not truthful". ALL the writers would say, you want truth or to sell magazines and ad space? They all told me that I would fold very quickly if I didn't start printing the industry writer's articles. So, I wrote my own. Ended up that a nutritional article or dietary supplement article coming from a Nutritional Biochemist, not a writer, became very popular pretty fast. But I did end up getting out of the magazine industry because it just got too much. I couldn't stoop to deceiving someone out of their money. Most magazines are wolves in sheep's clothing...in my industry anyway, and are secretly owned by the large companies that head that industry. They use them as product catalogs and sales tools. AND, boy do they work!

Anyway, that is just my experience!!!! I read a lot of gun and hunting magazines and like a lot of them. I just don't run out and get a product that I read about until I do a little homework.

These forums are a great place to do that homework and get some real world experiences.
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Offline charles p

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2008, 06:10:42 AM »
When a writer does an article on a particular brand of product, and that product is on a full page add adjacent to the article, it ain't just by coinsidence.

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2008, 03:30:29 PM »
LOL I like how the rem 700 Green kool-aid drinkers attack the journalistic ethics of the magazine article rather than debating the performance of the various models tested.....Quite telling ::)

Quote
I've never seen a Remington that shot over MOA right out of the box with factory ammo.  Most were 1/2 MOA or better.

time to bust out the shovel

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2008, 04:07:13 PM »
I also find it hard to believe that the Rem. 700 ranked so low. I have owned a few 700 and and all shot well under moa. Maybe they got a bad one. Every company has lemmons. Dale
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2008, 04:52:31 PM »
LOL I like how the rem 700 Green kool-aid drinkers attack the journalistic ethics of the magazine article rather than debating the performance of the various models tested.....Quite telling ::)

Quote
I've never seen a Remington that shot over MOA right out of the box with factory ammo.  Most were 1/2 MOA or better.

time to bust out the shovel

Ok I'll debate....The other models tested are junk.  End of debate for me.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2008, 05:07:47 PM »
Quote
Ok I'll debate....The other models tested are junk.  End of debate for me.

Really... SO     How many of the other models listed have YOU shot?

Offline Pinkerton

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2008, 06:08:49 PM »
Can't believe Remington or Winchester came in behind all those other's. I stopped reading F&S and Sports Afield a long time ago. And wouldn't put any weight on their writers opinions anyway, they will find a way to lean towards the advertiser every time.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2008, 11:05:58 PM »
Whilst wea re talking advertising I noticed at the bottom of the page here a Google ad for Remington in the UK so I clicked on it and it took me to Amazon where they are selling razors. Remington electric shavers  :D I knw Amazone sell lots of different things heck we just brought a new garden fork handle for dads old fork from them. Didn't think they sold firearms but wanted to check!

Here Remington have full page ads on the back of most shooting magazines, they dodn't seem to work much though, not round here.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2008, 11:38:28 PM »
Quote
Ok I'll debate....The other models tested are junk.  End of debate for me.

Really... SO     How many of the other models listed have YOU shot?

All of them but the Marlin.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Spanky

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2008, 12:14:16 AM »
It seems like this thread was started just to attack a certain members brand preference AGAIN!!
Grow up fella's, we're not in grade school anymore.

Take all the rifles and give them to another magazine for testing.
See if the results are the same.



Spanky

Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2008, 12:34:26 AM »
I took the post as being more twords the magazines are geared to selling for their advertisers, not to printing the truth... When was the last time you saw a rifle tested that shot terrible??
Usually if the writer gets one of those the maker will repair or send another rifle for the testing.

Offline rickt300

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2008, 04:49:27 AM »
I have owned numerous Remingtons and so far all have shot very well. I  personally prefer rifles built on Mauser actions because I like the striker locking safety. The safety is where I and the Remingtons don't get along. Many of the gun tests are really a crap shoot. They get 5 rifles and shoot them with the same ammo, your results are skewed toward which rifles shot well with said ammo.  If I were to get 1 rifle and try 5 different reloads or factory loads what would be the group spread? you can't say before you try em can you? I normally seal the stocks and bed rifles as I like to bed them before firing a shot thru them, I get very good accuracy out of the rifles I buy. I also adjust the triggers and properly tighten all screws. Did your gun test writers do this?
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2008, 07:44:28 AM »
Quote
All of them but the Marlin.
  how did they shoot?

Offline Swampman

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2008, 07:48:10 AM »
Not so good.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2008, 08:21:16 AM »
Not so good.

care to give any details?

What ammo did you use? What kind of groups did you get. How were the triggers and actions?

Offline Swampman

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 08:40:30 AM »
Ammo was Federal, Remington, & Winchester.  Triggers were heavy except for the Savage, it had the Accu-Trigger which is very easily damaged in the field.  I don't like the Accu-Trigger at all.  I can't get use to it.  The Weatherby Vanguard had a fairly smooth action, the rest were so so.  Group sizes have been running about 2" with unexplained flyers.  We haven't been able to get them any smaller.  One of the Rugers was sold recently because it just wouldn't group.  I don't really like any of the rifles equipped with plastic triggerguards.  The Mossberg ATR's triggerguard broke on the first hunting trip while still in it's padded case.  I had to replace it with a Remington 700ADL metal triggerguard.  The Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 kicked so bad I couldn't shoot more than 3 rounds at one sitting.  My Remington .30-06 has no noticeable recoil.  My friends let me shoot their rifles and ammo.  I've personally owned most of the brands mentioned.  I no longer buy bolt actions that aren't Remingtons.  I just don't have enough spare tme to get the off brands to shoot.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline skb2706

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2008, 09:05:45 AM »
Considering the number of variables the test could be considered a worthless waste of time. You would need several test guns of each, several types of ammo, optics, rests, shooters and on and on.............

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2008, 09:11:06 AM »
  i can t afford to do the only thing that would let me know for sure which is the absolut most accurate..so i gambled on remington and then took a member heres advice that he thought everyone oughta give the savages a look.i did an decided to make an 400 dollar bet he was right..i won t say as to durability as time will tell. but for accuracy savage 110 had accuracy out the box that id heard only came in custom rifles..now the rem 700 was not bad either after a little work..
 but for this simple ole country boy ,ill look no further as to rifles..the 110 in 30 06
 gets it done..
  as ive stated ,,my way is to learn one centerfire all purpose rifle,hopefully to the point that its pretty much an exstention of my hands..if i do my part this gun will put the 165 fusion rnd exactly where i want it to go..i accidentally found the rnd that this gun  will out do itself with.. its originally  sighted for 2 inches high[at a 100] with winchester 180 power point.. it was by chance that i found the fusion 165 rnd was dead on at that distance.. as ive said somebody up there was smiling dn at me that day..
  so ill pass it on.. give savage a look .slim
 :)

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2008, 11:50:29 AM »
First of  Weatherby guarantees all its rifles will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups. To make sure they will Weatherby live fires the barreled actions in a test stock. The Weatherby Vanguard MOA is selected by reference to those tests done by Weatherby.  If the rifle shoots a MOA it is designated an MOA.  It is no surprise a Weatherby MOA shoots MOA out of the box, they are the best of a larger lot.  Not being stupid Weatherby charges a couple of hundred bucks for the label MOA.  What is funny is that Weatherby has the worst trigger of the bunch and it is still a lot better than triggers used to be just a few years ago.

Second,  I read the whole article. There isn't much difference between the top and the bottom.  They are all shooting about 1 1/2" or better.   I happen to think that any hunting rifle shooting 1 1/2" out of the box standard is pretty darn remarkable.  It is a lot better than it used to be when what 2 1/2" was the out of the box standard and two and 1/2 inches is plenty good for general hunting. 

Third,  I don't think there is a rifle in the bunch that can't be improved at least some.   A little tweaking and they will all shoot MOA. For some it might just be finding the right ammunition.  When you thing about it that is amazing. 

We have all gotten spoiled. Steel is better, machining is better, engineering is better, powders are better, and bullets are much better.  I guess what I am trying to say,  buy the rifle that fits your needs confident it will shoot pretty darn well out of the box.

Offline NAM70

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2008, 03:42:34 PM »
  My Remington .30-06 has no noticeable recoil.  
I like Remingtons too but I have never shot a 30-06 that hasn't any noticeable recoil :)

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2008, 06:35:44 PM »
Amen.  I've had 7 Remington 700's, ADL's, BDL's, and a Mountain Rifle, along with a 7400 Semi and they all have noticeable recoil.  Not un-manageable, but noticeable.  I'd have to say that the easiest shooting bolt action 30-06 I've had was a Winchester Model 70 with a Bell & Carlson classic style stock.

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Anybody read the July 08 Field&Stream accuracy issue?
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2008, 04:59:51 AM »
A 30-06 without noticeable recoil? I guess he uses those Remington Managed Recoil loads exclusively.