Man Killed by Muzzleloader

[simonkenton]

 Sawyer County [Wisconsin] Record

Man dies after black powder rifle explodes
by Terrell Boettcher, News Editor
Published: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 11:14 AM CDT
A 40-year-old Geneva, Ill. man, James A. Hall, died Friday, Sept. 12 in Sawyer County from injuries he sustained when his black powder musket accidentally exploded.

The Sawyer County Sheriff’s Department received a call at 6:30 p.m. Friday of an accidental gunshot wound to the 40-year-old male. It was also learned that the victim was being transported to the Hayward Area Memorial Hospital by friends. Hall was pronounced dead at the hospital at approximately 7:15 p.m. by Sawyer County Coroner Dr. John Ryan.

Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said the preliminary investigation and witness statements revealed that three Illinois men, including Hall, were at a cottage on Meadowlark Lane, approximately 15 miles east of Hayward on the Tiger Cat Flowage in the town of Round Lake.
The men had been attempting to load and fire a black powder musket. Hall took control of the musket and attempted to fire it. It exploded and shrapnel from the musket struck him in the thigh area. Preliminary reports indicate that Hall may have suffered a lacerated femoral artery.

Zeigle said that what apparently occurred is termed a “hang fire,” in which the powder didn’t fully ignite on earlier attempts. An excessive amount of powder was placed in the weapon, which caused it to explode, he said.

An autopsy will be conducted, Zeigle said.

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I have been digging around to get more details of this incident, such as, type of rifle, type of powder, but no luck so far.

[Trapper-Jack]

A few years ago a local police officer attempted to demonstrate that a black powder weapon could not be overloaded.  At his home he loaded a .50 cal rifle with an excessive amount of powder (about 2/3 of the barrel full I'm told) with a ball seated on top of it.  The breach exploded causing injury to his face and hand.  He didn't die from it but required extensive reconstructive surgery.

[GeneRector]

Howdy! Just like any other firearm, there is not much room for error.  Safety is #1 all the time! 

[longcaribiner]

I heard a rumor about a muzzleloader explosion a few weeks ago at Northern Lancaser County Farmers and Sportsmen'S Club range (PA)

a few months ago, I encountered a guy putting five pellets of some powder in his in-line.  He couldn't hit a flock of barns and was being an idiot. No one could tell him anything.  He knew it all.  His buddy puts six pellets in, etc. I just left so I wouldn't be hurt. 

Folks don't realize that black powder, and substitutes can detonate under the "wrong" conditions. Powder can actually constitute additional weight to be pushed forward when it starts burning at the breech. So add 300 grains of powder and a 500 grain minnie ball, and you have the equivalent of an 800 grain bullet/bore obstruction to build pressure in a generally soft mild steel barrel. 

Stupidest thing I ever witnessed was a kid at the range trying to adjust the rear sight of his Ruger 10-22 while having the muzzle pressed into his stomach. Before anybody could get a warning out,  Yep, it went off.  Ended up spending an hour answering even dumber questions by the cops about what we saw. 


In all fairness though, many years ago, when muzzleloaders enjoyed a suddenresurgence in the early 1970's a company in Vermont imported a bunch of extremely poorly made .68 caliber smooth bore flint muskets.  They had three piece barrels.  breech plug, a 10 to 12 inch breech section that was Octogan, and then a round barrel that was threaded into the front of the Octogan section.   Yeah, 10 to 12 inched of bore and then a threaded joint.   Anyway, one of them blew up outside of Phila.  Guy was killed.  As it turns out the idiot loaded it with smokeless.    Other folks were killed by the guns and the sporting goods store where I worked, took a couple dozen back during the recall.   We were instructed to cut them in two through the octogon breech section with a hack saw and throw them in the dumpster.    The stocks were cheap pieces of pine.    If you ever encounter a gun like that, run, hide and warn the owner not to shoot it.   

[yooper77]

This a sad event.

I would like to know the details, if it was horseplay or equipment failure.

I am also wondering what muzzle loader it was, T/C Knight, Lyman, CVA, homemade, ECT.

yooper77

[john keyes]

A few years ago a local police officer attempted to demonstrate that a black powder weapon could not be overloaded.  At his home he loaded a .50 cal rifle with an excessive amount of powder (about 2/3 of the barrel full I'm told) with a ball seated on top of it.  The breach exploded causing injury to his face and hand.  He didn't die from it but required extensive reconstructive surgery.

kinda too late to help this guy, but hey couldn't you at least tie a string to the trigger and back off about fifty yards?

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

I'd put my money on "equipment failure".

THE NUT THAT HOLDS THE BUTT!

[Trapper-Jack]

A few years ago a local police officer attempted to demonstrate that a black powder weapon could not be overloaded.  At his home he loaded a .50 cal rifle with an excessive amount of powder (about 2/3 of the barrel full I'm told) with a ball seated on top of it.  The breach exploded causing injury to his face and hand.  He didn't die from it but required extensive reconstructive surgery.

kinda too late to help this guy, but hey couldn't you at least tie a string to the trigger and back off about fifty yards?

I didn't know the guy but the incident made big news locally.  There were fund raisers set up to help with medical expenses. 
You are right about the string to the trigger to test these things.  I have made a few black powder rifles and morters.  My method of testing a barrel is to load it with at least 2 times the powder and two round balls (I don't shoot anything else).  I then use a section of cannon fuse to set of the charge.  This is done somewhere that is case of  barrel failure, the metal fragments wont do any harm, such as behind a dirt bank, brick building, large hay bale etc.  Haven't ever had a barrel failure but I like to test them before doing all the work to fit them to the stock.  No sense ruining a good lock and piece of wood.

[wsmitty01]

I was at the range one day shooting my standard rifle and the guy next to me was having a hell of a time firing his in-line, must of had some bad primers, I went to see if i could help and in the conversation I found out he was measuring his loads on a powder scale, that's right 150 grains of 777 by weight not volume!!! He didn't have a breech wrench with him but I'm sure glad the muzzleloader didn't go off while I was shooting next to him.  I gave him about an hour lesson on black powder shooting and evrything he needed to know before he killed himself and any other poor soul next to him!!!  Sent him home to pull the breech plug and empty it or tie it to a tree and pull the trigger with a very long string!!

[hawkenman]

Back in the early 70's when I was about 18, I had purchased a 45 cal. percussion rifle from Dixie Gun Works. I took it to the range, loaded 110 grains of 3F blackpowder and a round ball. I pulled the trigger and did not hear the gun go off, the only thing I heard was just a ping sound and I was lying on the ground bleeding from all over my face. Thank goodness I was wearing glasses, the plastic lens were impregnated with exploded metal pieces. After I was patched up I examined what had happened, the gun was made in Spain (nothing against CVA) and when the barrel was drilled the drill path was off. The front of the barrel was 1/4 inch thick, the rear where the breech was at was about 1/8 inch thick. This is where the barrel could not take the pressure.

[lonewolf5348]

I shot B/P back n the early 70's then a long layoff and return to it about 10 years ago.
I am more of a flinter shooter sold my sidelock percussion and only have 1 t/c inline in the safe 50 cal. thunderhawk (T/C best m/l)
I was out 2 weeks ago and I most of the time try NOT to to talk with other people at the range when shooting black powder i try to keep my mind on my loading.
I yet to have a dry ball loaded in the last 10 years.I keep my powder marked goex 3F @ 4F
I have my pan charger for the 4F and  a plastic hair rinse bottle the wife uses for 3 F
I just got into talking with someone about the flinters and yeas by mistake I took the can of 4F and threw into the plastic mark bottle 3F
I loaded a lighter charge that first shot why I don't no but instead of throwing 90 grains I tried 75 grains YEP IT WAS 4F
The gun shot man what recoil I new there was something wrong so I then took the bottle powder and drop a few grains on the bench table and a few from the pan charger yep the powders were the same.
I read somewere a long time back t/c barrel are proof tested with 3 times the max: charge.
safety is the key to any sport fishing boating hunting shooting I see guys almost get killed launching there boat from there trailer at the boat ramp

[captchee]

Back in the early 70's when I was about 18, I had purchased a 45 cal. percussion rifle from Dixie Gun Works. I took it to the range, loaded 110 grains of 3F blackpowder and a round ball. I pulled the trigger and did not hear the gun go off, the only thing I heard was just a ping sound and I was lying on the ground bleeding from all over my face. Thank goodness I was wearing glasses, the plastic lens were impregnated with exploded metal pieces. After I was patched up I examined what had happened, the gun was made in Spain (nothing against CVA) and when the barrel was drilled the drill path was off. The front of the barrel was 1/4 inch thick, the rear where the breech was at was about 1/8 inch thick. This is where the barrel could not take the pressure.

 hawkenman ,
 what you are discribing is called run out and its common in center drilled barrels  IE barrels that are made from bar stock and then  drilled  for the bore .
 i was not awear that Jukar ever did  this  type of barrels .
 in the early 1970's CVA was made all  here in the US , barrels and all .
If memory serves me , they hired Jukar to start producing their rifles in   about 1975 ?? 78 ?? there abouts . prior to that Jukar  had their own line of guns sold here in the US and marked Made in Spanish on them

 also as far as i know TC   only batch tests their barrels , not each and every barrel

 but if your into your TC's , now is the time to get your parts . S&W has said that they will no longer make any traditional muzzleloaders  and once the parts they have on hand are go , they are gone

[longcaribiner]

CVA guns were primarily made in Spain until about 1979.  My flint CVA pistol was purchased new in 1973 and was marked Made in Spain.  The first gun they advertised as Made in USA was the Mountain Rifle, which was probably the best quality mass produced muzzleloader sold in the US.   Some other CVA models were always made in Spain until production stopped and CVA no longer sold them.  Somewhere around here I have some old CVA catalogues from 1979 to 1984, and I believe they list many of the models as Made in Spain.   There were some made in Italy.  There were a few odd guns they made that I have never seen in person or for sale on the net.  There was a CVA Zouave, a CVA Prospector pistol. and some others.  I don't think I ever saw the CVA Zouave even listed in the catelogues, just in a couple magazine ads and an announcement they sent to the sporting goods store where I worked..     

And drill run out was also bad in many of the old Numrich barrels that were sold.  In Fact, Dixie's catelogue sold them and advised putting the off center end at the breech, when installing a breech plug and making a rifle with them.  I still have one of those laying in the shop and the bore is about a sixteenth off center at one end.   

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

110gr 3F in a .45 shooting patched round ball?  Dang, i wonder what rifle it was and what the max load of 3f was.

[captchee]

 you sure your not confusing Jukar with CVA becouse CVA and JUKAR were very much the same .
 some of the early CVA long rifles are 1 peice stocks  and the barrel marked  MADE IN THE USA . I know becouse  i have worked on 3 or 4 of those , as well as the mountian rifles . which by the way had eather douglas or sherion barrels on them . dont know who made the long rifle barrels  but  when Jukar started making them for them  they became 2 peice stocks . so im thinking the originals were very limited runs  by CVA before they turned to Jukar

 this pistol i just finished is a CVA  kentucky that i modified . it has a walnut stock  and was stamped made in the USA CVA .
 well it was tell i got rifd of that junk on the barrel
 but ti guess there could have been a transition period there where  jukar was building for CVA . in which the barrel would have been made in spain .

 but again , i have never seen a Jukar barrel that was drilled  Exstruded , yes , but not drilled .
 now jukar is one of the oldest gun companies in spain so  probably at one time they made iron barrels that were drilled or welded  but  that probably stoped  at the turn of the century , well before CVA  even was a twinkle in someones eye

[Buckskins & Black Powder]