375W Marlin

[SharonAnne]

did Marlin ever build a lever action chambered for the .375 Winchester?

[ms]

   
   
 .375 Winchester
   
     
  With few exceptions, time has not been kind to big game cartridges designed for close to medium range shooting. The .375 Winchester is a good example of an excellent cartridge allowed to die. It was introduced in the Winchester Model 94 in 1978 and later available in the Marlin Model 336, Savage Model 99, and Ruger No. 3 rifles. In spite of its failure to win many friends among those multitudes who hunt deer, black bear, and wild hogs, the .375 Winchester is an excellent woods cartridge. But then so is the .35 Remington, a cartridge of similar performance with a seventy year head start on Winchester's .375 cartridge. It might be of interest to note that along with the .375, Olin also developed a .40 caliber cartridge on the .30-30 case. Had the .375 become successful, we might now have a Model 94 in .400 Winchester, but since it didn't we probably seen our last new woods cartridge from Winchester. As this is written, only three .375 caliber bullets suitable for use in rifles with tubular magazines are available; the 200 grain Sierra, and 220 grain Hornady, and the 250 grain Barnes, all of flatnose form. Cast bullets up to 250 grains also work quite well in this cartridge. A number of powders do a good job here, including H335, IMR-3031, W-748, and Reloader 7.

This text is based on information from “Cartridges of the World”, Hodgdon
 

[bearmgc]

I'm doing my best to keep that Win 375caliber alive. You can get really good factory ammo at Wisconsin Cartidge company, good prices.

[SharonAnne]

it WAS chambered in the 336 and the 99!?!?!? OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robert4570]

I always wanted a 94XTR in that caliber.
Is it hard to get brass or full loads ?

[CJ]

It was chambered, but good luck finding one unless you have deep pockets. The Marlins arent too bad, but the Savages can get pretty pricey! I've missed out on one of each at different times.

[coyotejoe]

Am I confused or did not Marlin once offer the Cowboy model in 38/55? That could be loaded to .375 Winchester specs if you could find one, but then too, top handloads in the .35 Remington come pretty close and rifles are much easier to find.

[Mike Britton]

I have a .375 Marlin. The rifle was actually called the "375 Marlin". A friend has a .38-55 pre '64 '94, and I like my Marlin better.
IMHO, it's the best handling lever action ever. I have other 336's, but the 375 seems to be thinner, and better balanced.
SharonAnne, Marlin made around 12,000 "375s" in '82-'83, and they can be found at the bigger gun shows for around $400.

[DC]

..Infact, I just saw one on Gun Broker for a little over $500.

[Tallwalker]

I saw a Winchester 94 XTR BB in .375 yesterday that looked to be in really nice shape with a Williams receiver sight for $450. I'm kind of regretting not looking at it closer, and perhaps buying it. I haven't seen one for sale around here for some time.

[surveyor47]

I purchased and sold one of the first Marlin 375s.  I highly recommend the 45-70. Here is why.

There are a number of problems related strictly to the 375 Winchester cartridge:

1. Accuracy or lack thereof. The best group I ever got from the gun was about 6" at 100 yards, no matter what.  Several gunwriters have commented similarly.
2. Winchester brass is much too thin, with a severe tendency to dimple when re-sized.  You must use very very little lube.
3. Brass tends to stretch more severely than any case I have ever seen.  Brass has to be trimmed very frequently.  Stretching also affect crimp, requiring resetting of crimp/seating dies on every batch. If not, the case crushes.
4. Hornady changed the design of their 220 grain bullet, causing a severe pressure change with the newer design. 
5. There is one and only one powder for the 375 and that is RL7. 
6. While the Marlin 375 is a great little rifle, it simply isn't worth all the hassle.  It is accuracy limited to about 125 yards, despite relatively high velocity.

The 45-70 exhibits NONE of the problems I had with the 375 and is far more powerful with appropriate loads.  Excellent accuracy. Little or no case stretching. No crushing or dimpling during reloading. No weird pressure spikes.  The 45-70 is my all time favorite rifle cartridge.

[Autorim]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Surveyor on the .375. It is like a lot of other cartridges that tried to fill a niche   which didn't exist. The 38-55 fans apparently have little use for the .375 and there are better cartridges. Personally, I would not invest in one.

For hunting, the 45-70 is far superior and lots more bullets available. Yes, you have more recoil. but it is very manageable if you keep the loads in the mid range. I have both 38-55 and 45-70.

[Mikey]

This is an interesting post.  I once knew a fella who owned and used a 375 in a Marlin and he took whitetail without any problems. 

However, I wonder if the 375 does not suffer some of the same problems the 444 suffered before some intelligent folk took it and made it work with heavy cast bullets. 

If the Marlins in this caliber use a micro-groove twist and bore diameters make using cast bullets a bunch of trials in inaccuracy then possibly bore-lapping/fire-lapping ala Veral Smith or Beartooth Bullets and using 'cast to bore size bullets' may be the answer.........

I have not tried the 375, or the 38-55, but well understand the problems with a lack of variety in jacketed bullets and how a jacketed bullet just large enough to engage the rifling but not large enough to obdurate in the bore will lack accuracy.  I also wonder if anyone with a 375, whether a Marlin or Winchester, may have lapped the bore and gone to properly sized cast bullets and if that has improved the accuracy at all?  Mikey.

[Autorim]

I have no doubt that you can slug the bore and then shoot properly sized cast bullets and obtain decent accuracy and a good hunting load if the barrel is good and with the correct twist. IMHO I would not intentionally go there with the .375 unless I had a compelling reason such as already owning a .375 with nostalgic value. Practically speaking, IMHO there are better choices. My 38-55 is vintage and was given to my dad by one of his girl friends before he and my mother were married. It slugs .375 and does very well with .375 jacketed bullets or .376-.377 cast and IMR 4198.

However, my favorite "walkin' around in the woods" rifle is a 45-70 Ruger No. 1 although a Marlin would serve just as well except I don't have one.

[Hunter6657]

I have a Marlin 375 and a 6" group at 100 yards would be the absolute worst that this rifle would do. I've been shooting reloads with the 220gr Hornady bullets and it will shoot into 3" all day long and a few loads shoot less than 2" with 3 shot groups-- 1.5" groups. Velocity is consistent with low standard deviation. I use the Lee Factory crimp die for consistent crimping.

I've had other Marlin 375 rifles that shoot better than this.
However, I wouldnt recommend one of these rifles unless you reload or order from Wisconsin cartridge or Conley Precision. Factory loads are astronomical in price and hard to find.

The rifle handles like a 30-30 or 308MX with the lighter weight and is slimmer in profile than the 444's or 45-70's. Recoils is a lot less as well.
With 36 grs of RL7, my rifle shoots consistent 2150fps with the 220gr Hornady bullets. Another grain and its right under 2200fps on average which beat the factory specs of a 200gr bullet at 2200fps.
Most rifles dont get what the manufacturers claim for velocity anyways, especially when they chronograph loads out of a 24" barrel and most rifles have 20-22" barrels.

[DC]

1. Accuracy or lack thereof. The best group I ever got from the gun was about 6" at 100 yards, no matter what.  Several gunwriters have commented similarly.
I can't speak to the Marlin 375 but there is nothing inherently wrong with the accuracy of the cartridge.
2. Winchester brass is much too thin, with a severe tendency to dimple when re-sized.  You must use very very little lube. I haven't had that problem.
3. Brass tends to stretch more severely than any case I have ever seen.  Brass has to be trimmed very frequently.  Stretching also affect crimp, requiring resetting of crimp/seating dies on every batch. If not, the case crushes. Once again, I haven't found this. It stretches but no more proportionally than other cartridges
4. Hornady changed the design of their 220 grain bullet, causing a severe pressure change with the newer design.  I don't know about his but Barnes makes a great bullet for it, the Barnes Original
5. There is one and only one powder for the 375 and that is RL7.  Check the Barnes tables for other choices.
6. While the Marlin 375 is a great little rifle, it simply isn't worth all the hassle.  It is accuracy limited to about 125 yards, despite relatively high velocity  I can't speak to this as I have a Winchester BB but I have heard that some of the Marlin bores were oversized which may contribute to the problem...again, I can't speak from experience.

The 375 is a great round if you can find a rifle that will shoot it.

[surveyor47]

You mentioned that some Marlin barrels were reportedly too large in diameter. That would certainly explain the lack of accuracy and possibly the case stretching that I experienced.  Something clearly wasnt right. The gun shot about 2.5" groups at 100 yards with the original Hornady design and did not exhibit wierd pressure spikes.  That all changed when Hornady changed the position of the cannular, a different ballgame.     

You can use other powders such as IMR3031 and IMR 4198, but you loose so much velocity that it isnt worth it; you have nothing but a glorified 35 Remington. The closest to RL7 is N200 and I have never seen a can.  Again, RL7 is the powder that makes the 375 Winchester tick. If you have to give up 200 fps in a cartridge that maxes out at 2200 fps, then you are better off with the 35 Remington or better yet the 45-70.

My load was 0.5 grains under maximum for RL7 and the 220 grain Hornday. Perhaps that accounts for the case stretching. 

The Winchester cases dimpled very very easily.  By comparison, I have never dimpled a 45-70 case. 

Given the lack of accuracy reported by a number of shooters and gunwriters, plus the expense of brass, plus the availabilty of only 1 bullet, its no wonder the cartridge failed. There was no apparent sound reason that properly sized barrels couldnt have been produced by Marlin.  I bet T/C produces good barrels for it, but T/C was not a factor at the time of its introduction, only Marlin and Winchester.  I hated giving up on this round, because the rifle was so nice.  If I had to do it all over again, it might have been better to rebarrel it to 38-55.  I certainly spent a lot of time trying to make this cartridge work for me and I dont like giving up on such a good idea.  It took me 15 years to finally bite for the 45-70 after eating the 375 Winchester LEMON.  I would have been far better off with the 45-70 to start with.

[pastorp]

Surveyor47, You certainelly have had your problems with the 375 win. I have owned 2 contender barrels in this chambering and 2 marlin rifles(at different times) and while not as accorate as some of my rifles, I never had the problems you experienced.

You say there is only 1 bullet for this round but I tried 3 different ones. I believe sierra made a 200gr jacketed as well as the hornandy jacketed you tried. I also tried cast.

As far as powder accurate 2200 worked well for me.

Not trying to start a fight, and I don't doubt that you are truthfully relaying your experences. But in the guns I've owned in that caliber(4) my experiences were different. Your own statement that you had a lemon is probably the truth. That does not mean all guns or even all marlins in this caliber are lemons.

Regards, Byron

[Duckbill]

I have a Marlin375 and I happen to think it is an awesome gun and cartridge.  I used it to take 2nd place in a postal match.  5-shot group of 5/8" @ 100yds.  I'd say that pretty darn accurate.  I feel that the best powder is the RL-7.  Accurate AA1680 will propel the 220gr bullet well over 2300fps.  Sierra makes the 200gr FP for this cartridge, also. 

[surveyor47]

My experiences with the 375 Winchester were 20+ years ago.  The powders I am referring to are the ones available back then when the cartridge first came out. I gave up on it after about 2 years, when Hornady changed the bullet design and all my load development went out the window.  I had tested every bullet and powder combination I could put my hands on and every bit of my effort was rendered null and void by a design change that Hornady didnt even announce.  Things have changed a bit in the last 20 years, new powders and new bullets and yes, new guns. This is one of the few times that a cartridge has beaten me. I was one of the first people to try this cartridge.  So I take no offense that you have had success, where I failed. Success is good.  

I still think that the idea was great.  375 diameter, 220 grains at 2200 fps. Thats some serious horsepower. I wanted a powerful mid range carbine for hunting the backwoods of Maine.  I carried a scoped Remington 700 30-06 on one and only one hunt. The range was useful, but the package was terrible for that type of hunting. The Marlin 35 Remington was popular with good reason.  Light, quick, easy to carry.  I was turned off to the 35 Remington by the very slight shoulder, which requires carful sizing in order to avoid excessive headspace.  I considered the 30-30 a bit too light.  I thought the 45-70 a bit too slow.  I thought that the 2200 fps velocity of the 375 would give me a 150 to 175 yards of useful range, which was about all I needed. After I gave up on the 375 Winchester, I went to a 308 Winchester carbine, which is still my basic hunting rifle. It was the T/C Encore that got me to bite on the 45-70 and I have become addicted to the round.  One of these days, I just might pick up a Sharps Cavalry Carbine.

[Cascade Pete]

Wow,
           Some good, Some bad reviews. Here is my $.02 worth:
         
         I owned one of the 375 Marlins a few years back. I no longer do, Only because of a nasty divorce, the need to sell everything to survive..Yada,Yada,Yada...IMHO, it was one of the best woods cartridge/rifle combos I ever owned. It was devistating on whitetails(BIG Wisconsin Whitetails, no less) and never failed to knock down what I was aiming at. I was getting 1 1/2" groups at 100 Yrds CONSISTANTLY with Wisconsin CC ammo. The Winchester ammo was nowhere near the quality or accuracy. The rifle balanced well and was just the right "horsepower" to knock a deer of its feet.
    All things said "It was what it was" a great rifle/Round combo that got the job done. Sure do miss that Rifle.....Rev. Pete

[cwlongshot]

I'm sorry some of you guys are having problems with accuracy!! I LOVE the caliber and own two Marlins (They made two models) two contenders, (rifle and pistol barrels). Yes Savage chambered the 99 for it as did Ruger in the #3 SS.

RE7 is a good powder, in fact it is THE powder for my guns. Fill the case with 38grs, stuff on a 220 gr bullet and crimp it. I NEVER worry about having enough gun for anything on this continent, with in appropriate ranges. Sans maybe the big bears and even then it will work if your a cool head and place your shots it will work for them as well. I have shot a number of deer and a couple 400ld class pigs with single shots and thru and thru penetration.

Once I found this load, both my Marlins and the C.Carbine will cut the same hole at 100yrds from a bench. And easily remain on a baseball off hand at the same range. The 14" pistol is good but about 2-3" is the best I can get from it. Good triggers help, as does a numbness to recoil as it does kick.

 Yes Marlin made a Cowboy in 38-55 but these had a problem with bore diameters and many where a problem for shooters. Mine shoots very well with .379 bullets but is terrible in accurate with factory 255 Winchester fodder.

CW

[handirifle]

Mine is a 94 BB and accuracy with my handloads has been very good.  On average 2-3" seem the norm.  While this is not benchrest accuracy, it's not a benchrest rifle either.

I have not been able to take any game with mine yet, partly due to the Kalifornia lead ban, but WHEN I get through with my re-designing the Barnes TSX's for it, I will use it once again.

Think of it as a shorter (not short) range 30-06.  A 220gr bullet at 2200fps (from a 20" barrel mind you, the '06 data is from 24" barrels) is knocking on the door of the old '06 with the same bullet weight.  The '06 will outdistance it, for sure, but within 150yds you are carrying a compact, powerful cartridge, with less recoil than the 45-70 (I do also own and love my 1895GS) and way faster handling.

Really, the 220gr at 2000 will drop any blackbear or smaller critter out there, and STILL out performs the 35 Rem by 150fps.

I have owned a Marlin in 35 Rem and to me, the ONLY advantage it had was getting factory ammo, but that was 6-7 years ago.

Relaoding has never cause ANY of the above mentioned issues for me.  Besides, RL 7 works so well, why worry about other powders?

[Chuck White]

I had a 375 Winchester in Marlin about 15 years ago.

I was stamped Model 375.

I liked the rifle, but one of my brothers had done a lot and helped me out, so one day, I walked to the gun cabinet, took out the 375 and turned around and handed it to him and said "it's yours"!

He hunts with it often and has never had it fail him.

[BBF]

Ruger#3 used the Speer 235 gr. Semi Spitzer with RL-7. Accurate in that rifle.

[glshop20]

The 374W is really a souped up-higher pressure 38-55.  The 38-55 is noted for accuracy.  I have a 375W and with the right loads it will hold 2" or less at 100yds.  You got to feed it what it likes best.

[coyotejoe]

I Just got a 375 Marlin off Gunbroker in "used but not abused" condition for $480. The micro-groove barrel mikes .377 groove diameter. So far I haven't had much time with it but Winchester 200 grain factory loads clocked only 1954 fps and grouped 2 1/2" at 50 yards. I tried one load with the Sierra 200 grain flat point and 36 grains of AA1680 which grouped in 1 1/8" at fifty yards and clocked 2071 fps. I also tried five rounds a friend had loaded for his Encore with the 220 Hornady and 34 grains of RL-7. I didn't chronograph them but they went about 1 1/2" at fifty yards.
  I chose this caliber as a hunting rifle because it is about the biggest caliber that will still permit a 200 yard point blank range within recoil levels acceptable to me. I could have gotten a brand new .444 for the same money but I've tried the .444 and find it more recoil than I enjoy. Factory ammo, brass and bullets are available and though the selection is limited, so what? How many different bullet weights are needed in a hunting rifle? There are lots of bullets available in 6.5mm and .308 but I settled on one bullet for each and use that one exclusively. The Hornady 220 FP and perhaps a cast bullet of 230-270 grains will be all I'll ever need in the .375, unless I load up some roundballs with 5 grains of Red Dot for bunnies.

[cwlongshot]

A load with that 220 Hornady bullet pushed by RL7 is a good one. the 375W is a wonderful caliber and should do everything your asking of it with out any problems!!

BTW, did you get the first or second model? (With or WO safety?)

CW

[coyotejoe]

I didn't know they ever made a .375 with a safety, I thought the .375 caliber had been dropped long before that silliness began.

[cwlongshot]

I didn't know they ever made a .375 with a safety, I thought the .375 caliber had been dropped long before that silliness began.

 Nope, happened smack in the middle!! 

 One is a M375 the other is a M375S.....

 Guess that means you have the more desireable NO safety!!  Good for you, enjoy it!!

CW