Author Topic: 375W Marlin (Read 4841 times)

S.B. · « **Reply #30 on:** January 11, 2009, 05:46:12 PM »

ms, I whole heatedly disagree with your views of this and all medium game calibers. Too much emphasis is put on large game for Africa or Alaska when few will ever be able to afford or go hunting there. Yes, I know gun writers like them but, their typewriters go faster than their bullets?
Steve

SharonAnne · « **Reply #31 on:** January 11, 2009, 06:21:17 PM »

SB I went back and read what ms posted. There was nothing about africa or alaska in his post. I am lost as to what it is you ARE commenting on.

S.B. · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2009, 02:51:35 AM »

SA, sorry I didn't convey my thoughts accurately but, I was talking about gun articles, today, in current gun magazines?
Steve

SharonAnne · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2009, 07:02:13 AM »

Steve, since I do not read magazines I am still left in the dark.

S.B. · « **Reply #34 on:** January 12, 2009, 08:09:18 AM »

Oh well, maybe the Masonic Lodges will admit women, one of these days?
Steve

BBF · « **Reply #35 on:** January 12, 2009, 11:52:32 AM »

What was that about? Reading and Lodges?

S.B. · « **Reply #36 on:** January 12, 2009, 12:17:41 PM »

2B1ask1
Steve

SharonAnne · « **Reply #37 on:** January 12, 2009, 02:09:29 PM »

I am getting more and more in the dark as his replies go on.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #38 on:** January 12, 2009, 02:28:45 PM »

Quote from: surveyor47 on October 03, 2008, 05:16:21 AM

I purchased and sold one of the first Marlin 375s. I highly recommend the 45-70. Here is why.

There are a number of problems related strictly to the 375 Winchester cartridge:

1. Accuracy or lack thereof. The best group I ever got from the gun was about 6" at 100 yards, no matter what. Several gunwriters have commented similarly.

From different days at the range with my 375 Marlin:
2.2”, five shots, 100 yards, 200g Sierra (6/23/2002)
2.0”, eighteen shots, 100 yards, 220g Hornady (2/17/02)
1.9”, five shots, 220g Hornady (9/12/2004)
2.0”, five shots, 220g Hornady (4/22/2006)
2.4”, four shots, 220g Hornady (7/30/2006)

Accuracy is a real problem...

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2. Winchester brass is much too thin, with a severe tendency to dimple when re-sized. You must use very very little lube.
3. Brass tends to stretch more severely than any case I have ever seen. Brass has to be trimmed very frequently. Stretching also affect crimp, requiring resetting of crimp/seating dies on every batch. If not, the case crushes.

All the brass for my leverguns is kept to very close tolerances to avoid crimping issues. .30-30. .375W, .45-70, .44 Mag, same-same. I use Winchester ammo for the .30-30 and .375, no significant problems.

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4. Hornady changed the design of their 220 grain bullet, causing a severe pressure change with the newer design.

Only if you overload it...

The SAAMI pressure standard for the .375 Winchester is 52,000 CUP.

H322, 2236fps, 48,900 CUP, Hornady 220g, Hodgdon Annual Manual, 2004, 24” barrel
H4198, 2233fps, 49,300CUP, Hornady 220g, Hodgdon Annual Manual, 2004, 24” barrel
AA2015, 2512fps, 41,500 CUP, Sierra 200g, Accurate #1, 24” barrel
AA1680, 2372fps, 44,800 CUP, Hornady 220g, Accurate #1, 24” barrel
Reloader #7, 2259fps, 42,100 CUP, Hornady 220g, Lyman #48, 20” barrel

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5. There is one and only one powder for the 375 and that is RL7.

See above. Most folks I know think AA1680 is the better powder.

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6. While the Marlin 375 is a great little rifle, it simply isn't worth all the hassle. It is accuracy limited to about 125 yards, despite relatively high velocity.

The three –shot, 2.9” group I shot at 200 yards was an anomaly – the wind was cooperating that day. The coyote I shot with it at 195 yards didn’t know what hit it, nor did the buck antelope I hit at 167 yards.

Took it down to the NRA Whittington Center one day for a bit of fun and ended up at the steel silhouette range shooting the 500-meter steel rams. Once I dialed in the drop and correction for the 40mph crosswind, the .375 Win knocked down 4 rams with my last 5 shots. FWIW, the .45-70 also did 4 of 5 with the last 5 shots. Not much difference that I could tell...

Guess I ought to stop shooting the .375 at 300 yards since accuracy is only good to 125 yards or so...

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The 45-70 exhibits NONE of the problems I had with the 375 and is far more powerful with appropriate loads. Excellent accuracy. Little or no case stretching. No crushing or dimpling during reloading. No weird pressure spikes. The 45-70 is my all time favorite rifle cartridge.

There is no doubt the .45-70 is the more powerful cartridge. The problem I have with the .45-70 is that to get it to shoot as flat I have to deal with substantially more recoil. Much as I love my Marlin .45-70, the .375 Win does a great job.

OldBob · « **Reply #39 on:** January 15, 2009, 12:03:18 AM »

I have the M375 model and am very pleased with it. I shoot hard cast Lee 379 bullets w/ ALOX lube over a respectable charge of SR4759 and it groups under 2 MOA, better if I am on my game that day. I can't say what it will do with jacketed bullets as I have never loaded any for it......... I don't think the deer will notice.... I recently picked up an old Herters bullet mould for it, it casts at .381, a bit large, made a .377 sizing die for it but haven't gotten to the range with it yet.

Sharps-Nut · « **Reply #40 on:** January 15, 2009, 09:15:02 AM »

38-55 not accurate, ack, maybe in the marlin but the round itself is very accurate. The round has become common in bpcr silhouette cirlces. In order to compete in that game at the 500 meter ram a round must be able to hold minute of angle. Again not familiar with it in a marlin but the round, very, B.A. in the accuracy department. SN

S.B. · « **Reply #41 on:** January 15, 2009, 11:28:04 AM »

"very, B.A. in the accuracy department."

Steve

Greenmtnboy66 · « **Reply #42 on:** January 30, 2009, 08:36:48 AM »

I love the 38-55 and the 375 win,
Here is why
shoot cast .379 bullets out of my Bufflo classic and get MOA at 100 yrds using a creedmore site and 22 grns of R7 and dacron filler giving me Blk powder speeds. I tried Goex but with dismal results.
I shoot a 220 grn hornaday out of my 375 win Encore and also get MOA at 100yrds with 38 grns of R7 and speeds of 2300 fps which is better accuracy than my 375 JDJ Encore rifle with H322 and 225 SP by Hornaday.
It's VERY !!! accurate out of TC barrels, it's not a butt kicker to shoot and I have droped elk with it out to 200yrds.
BUTT....
My buddy Coyote Joe had a bear getting acuracy out of his 336 only because of a over sized barrel it sluged to .377 I think which is fine for cast bullets but dismal for Jacketed bullts.
He finally found a powder that would shoot under bore size hornaday bullets but at slower speeds one inch at 50 yrds, he is still tinkering with it. But I am sure he will update his results.
I agree if I was to buy a 336 ,which is the one I own it would be a 45-70 only because the 338 is unavalable.
Way better wound channel with cast bullets and blk powder speeds.
which, at 100 yrds is all you need.Also if you want to heat the SOB up you can with all kinds of loads and available bullets.
My personal mag 45-70 bear thumpin load is eather a 400 grn JFP with 42 grns of R7, MOA at 100yrds or a 300 grn Noslar Partition and 47 grns of R7, OUCH!!! I love it but after 10 to 20 rounds my sholder dosen't.
I haven't heard about Hornaday reinventing the 220 grn FP but all the new 220 grn bullets I have bought shoot just as good with 38 grns of R7 as they ever did.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #43 on:** January 30, 2009, 05:03:05 PM »

Quote from: Greenmtnboy66 on January 30, 2009, 08:36:48 AM

...
I agree if I was to buy a 336 ,which is the one I own it would be a 45-70 only because the 338 is unavalable.
...

If you by a 336 it will be a .30-30. The Marlin .45-70 is an 1895.

Marlin 336 = .30-30
Marlin 3336ER = .356 Win
Marlin 375 = .375 Win
Marlin 1895 = .45-70

coyotejoe · « **Reply #44 on:** January 31, 2009, 05:36:58 AM »

Oh now let's nit pick here and not forget to add the A, B, C, W, S or whatever. If I were to say Marlin 336 in .375 caliber I doubt it would totally confuse anyone. In fact, 336 is a better discription of the current 45/70 since it is nothing at all like the original model 1895 Marlin that was discontinued in 1915.
I'll be trying a few more loads from my 375 later today and if I find a good one I'll sure report it. One issue I discovered in slugging the bore is that it has tight and loose spots, the tightest being just ahead of the chamber. I tried 16 rounds of 284 grain GC bullets imbedded with 220 grit lapping compound over 3.5 grains Red Dot with a tuft of cotton filler but haven't yet re-slugged the bore to see if it helped.

crash87 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 01, 2009, 05:03:19 AM »

I echo what Coyote Hunter posted, but I would like to add my pennies. I have 2 375's, No not a Marlin, but I'm looking, a Ruger #3 & Win 94, Pre angle eject. While I'll confess at never shooting the 94, I've put enough rounds through the Ruger to express an opinion of accuracy, 1 1/2" 5 shot groups @ 100yds, w/ 2 1/2X redfield scope, RL-7 & 220 hornady's. Having just received a mold for cast bullets, I slugged the bores of both rifles, .377 for the Ruger and a couple 100 thosands more for the 94, yet accuracy is phenomenal for the lowly 375 in the Ruger. If accuracy isn't there it is probably because chamber dimensions are on the sloppy side. I seen a few 94's with obscenely loooong throats and yes, lapping a rough bore "IS" the way to go. There's more than 1 powder for the 375, but if RL-7 works why try more? Bullets? not a whole lot out there and why should there be for a cartridge that nobody gave a chance to in the first place. I do notice however whenever the subject of the 375 Win comes up, for every 1 against it, there's a awhole lot more for it and, those who would really like to get on that shootn' bandwagon, that should tell us something. The 220 Hornady is all you'll ever need, besides as a rule these types of rifles with there obscenely archaic cartridges and ballistics were never meant to be that versatile one cartridge/one bullet weight/one load, Ive got more than a few whitetail deer and one substantially large Black Bear that will attest to that. Find yourself that Marlin or for that matter a Ruger, Winchester, or Savage and have fun. CRASH87

coyotejoe · « **Reply #46 on:** February 01, 2009, 06:19:05 AM »

In my initial load development I tried the 220 Hornady and 200 grain Sierra bullets with RL-7 and AA1680 powders. I started 4 grains under the listed max and went up in one grain steps. I never got acceptable accuracy at all, with 50 yard groups ranging from 1 1/2" to 2 1/2".
Yesterday I decided to try some W748, just because I had some. I found that by vibrating the loading block with a electric engraver to settle the powder in the case I could get a maximum of 40 grains in the case, compressed by the 220 grain bullet. Groups were a bit better, 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" at fifty yards. Velocity however, was terrible. The 40 grain load gave me only 1661 fps. By comparison, 32 grains of RL-7, which is under the listed starting load, went 1803 fps.
I tried 16 rounds of fire lapping with 220 grit embedded into 284 grain Western gas checked bullets over 3.5 grains of Red Dot with a tuft of cotton filler. I haven't re-slugged the bore as yet but was hopping it would even out some of the tight and loose spots I noticed in the first slugging. I really think Marlin does not make a very good barrel as I have found the same inconsistencies it two different 45/70 Marlins.

S.B. · « **Reply #47 on:** February 01, 2009, 09:09:52 AM »

I always though you loaded for chamber dimensions, in lever action rifles? Per say: Veral Smith's method from LBT?
Steve

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #48 on:** February 01, 2009, 10:43:58 AM »

Quote from: S.B. on February 01, 2009, 09:09:52 AM

I always though you loaded for chamber dimensions, in lever action rifles? Per say: Veral Smith's method from LBT?
Steve

Not me. Seat to the cannelure and crimp. I use a roll crimp as a separate step.

S.B. · « **Reply #49 on:** February 01, 2009, 11:32:50 AM »

All lever action rifles require crimping the bullet, to prevent bullet moveing in the magazine?
Steve

cwlongshot · « **Reply #50 on:** February 01, 2009, 01:11:21 PM »

Quote from: S.B. on February 01, 2009, 11:32:50 AM

All lever action rifles require crimping the bullet, to prevent bullet moving in the magazine?
Steve

Two reasons, yes the tubular mag, feeding, handling and such. But also this caliber has a bit of recoil and with out a crimp bullets will set back in the case upon firing.

CW

flintman · « **Reply #51 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:11:28 PM »

I have a Winchester 94 XTR .375 and I like it!
The prices on these things on auction sites really vary with the time of year,political situation,and brass avalibility.
Casting #375449 and #375248's for mine.
No need in hotrodding it,it will hit plenty hard.

EsoxLucius · « **Reply #52 on:** February 02, 2009, 05:57:24 AM »

Quote from: S.B. on February 01, 2009, 11:32:50 AM

All lever action rifles require crimping the bullet, to prevent bullet moveing in the magazine?
Steve

Actually, no. There are some instances where the case can be expanded less so that there is more case friction gripping the bullet which is used in conjunction with a compressed load so the bullet cannot be pushed into the case when in the magazine and under recoil. Such is the case in Tim Sundles' Buffalo Bore 350 grain 45-70 ammunition.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #53 on:** February 02, 2009, 02:20:56 PM »

Quote from: EsoxLucius on February 02, 2009, 05:57:24 AM

Quote from: S.B. on February 01, 2009, 11:32:50 AM
All lever action rifles require crimping the bullet, to prevent bullet moveing in the magazine?
Steve
Actually, no. There are some instances where the case can be expanded less so that there is more case friction gripping the bullet which is used in conjunction with a compressed load so the bullet cannot be pushed into the case when in the magazine and under recoil. Such is the case in Tim Sundles' Buffalo Bore 350 grain 45-70 ammunition.

Also, not all lever guns have tubular magazines...

crash87 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 03, 2009, 06:34:10 AM »

You "FIT" for chamber dimensions, although we're talking cast bullets to do that, Jacketed are already fix in there dimensions. It might be beneficial to make a chamber slug to see just excactly what you have before loading anymore rounds. In my experience you may well need more than 16 rounds to smooth out a not so perfect bore. I just got done with a 35 Whelen (which wasn't bad to start with) that needed approx. 50 as opposed to a 94 Win in 45 colt that went twice that. Going to do the 375 Ruger next. CRASH87

coyotejoe · « **Reply #55 on:** February 07, 2009, 07:24:08 AM »

Indeed, I've hand lapped quite a few barrels and I think it may be less time consuming than fire lapping. I ran another 15 cast bullets yesterday with 320 grit and my groups with full power jacketed bullets are somewhat better. I got a five shot, 50 yard group with 36 grains of RL-7 measuring 0.93", so I'm ready to try 100 yards if I get a day when the wind isn't roaring and if I can find some more Hornady 220 grain bullets. I really don't want to lap this barrel much more since the bore is already oversize from the factory.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #56 on:** February 10, 2009, 04:29:24 AM »

I finally got my fifty yard groups down to where I was willing to try one hundred. With the 220 Hornady over 37 grains of RL-7, I got a nice square 2.2" group of five which averaged 2116 fps from the 20" barrel. The 38 grain, heavily compressed load went 2177 fps and gave a vertical group of 3.2" at 100. The highest speeds I've seen were with 40 grains of AA-1680 at 2242 fps. I haven't yet tried the AA-1680 loads at 100 but at 50 yards groups with it were similar to RL-7 at fifty yards.
My last two shooting sessions showed very much improved accuracy. I can't say if it was the fire lapping or glass bedding the forend but something has tightened up the groups. Groups of two or three inches at 100 may not seem anything to brag about but that is good enough to hunt with and a great improvement over where I started.
Last night I scrubbed the bore with Iosso paste and got out bits of copper, not just copper color but actual tiny flakes of copper. The micro-groove rifling of this bore looks pretty rough and ragged on top of the lands, but that is Marlin.