Got a question about 410 tamer

[Lon371]

 To humor a couple of you. My daughter is coming by the house in the morning. She is bringing the antlers, her picture and A 410 round she saved from that outing. I will take a picture of her holding the antlers-picture and round and post it . I know I know, anyone can go on the web and find pictures . At the same time anyone can come on here and try pushing their ethics or style of hunting on everyone else.

 Just like on another site. Another old timer said the 410 is for professionals only! HUH?

 All I am saying is if the child is small and rifles are not an option, THEN 410 IS PLENTY IF KEPT IN ITS RANGE, AND PLACEMENT IS OBSERVED. Like people keep bringing up IF A POINTY STICK WILL DOIT THEN WHY NOT A LOW POWERED GUN(KEPT IN ITS LIMITATIONS.


she sent me this from her phone after i posted.

[billy_56081]

Heck I think alot of the fuss is that some of these guys are jealous that a little girl is a better hunter than they are.

[Doublebass73]

The rest of us will use something proper for deer.



Spanky

Spanky, since you've already defined the .410 slug as "worthless" let's compare it to these 2 common handgun hunting
calibers which are legal in many states. From Federal's website:

Energy in Foot Pounds (To nearest 5 Foot Pounds)

Load No    Caliber           Muzzle   25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
C357G    357 Magnum      466     439  416   396   378

Load No    Caliber              Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
P41B    41 Rem. Magnum     747   696  653  616   585

Load No    Caliber            Muzzle   25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
F412RS       410                762    574  432  334  272


Are these also worthless? How about an arrow from a bowhunter which typically has less than 50 foot pounds of energy? Would you consider an arrow proper for deer?

Also, are there any other rules of yours we should follow to make sure we are being "proper" for deer hunting?

[Spanky]

The rest of us will use something proper for deer.



Spanky

Spanky, since you've already defined the .410 slug as "worthless" let's compare it to these 2 common handgun hunting
calibers which are legal in many states. From Federal's website:

Energy in Foot Pounds (To nearest 5 Foot Pounds)

Load No    Caliber           Muzzle   25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
C357G    357 Magnum      466     439  416   396   378

Load No    Caliber              Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
P41B    41 Rem. Magnum     747   696  653  616   585

Load No    Caliber            Muzzle   25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
F412RS       410               762    574  432  334  272


Are these also worthless? How about an arrow from a bowhunter which typically has less than 50 foot pounds of energy? Would you consider an arrow proper for deer?

Also, are there any other rules of yours we should follow to make sure we are being "proper" for deer hunting?

I don't ever recall saying my opinion was a "rule"
Regardless of the fact that a (very) few of you are of the opinion that a .410 is good for deer, I do not agree... I don't have to agree with you do I??

Just for grins and giggles... Ask some of the people that hunt with a magnum handgun if they would also feel comfortable in the same situation with a .410.
I'd bet that not too many would.

Your mention of the energy of an arrow does not apply to this situation at all.
Apples to oranges my friend.

I think it would be best to "agree to disagree" on this one.
I think my way and some of you think differently... Simple as that.



Spanky

[Doublebass73]

Spanky,

I think we've already agreed to disagree on the .410 slug which is fine, don't use it to hunt with. The problem I have is you preaching ethics to the people on here about a cartridge which is legal in a lot of areas and works fine for many people.
Here's a few of your quotes:

"The old saying "Use enough gun" isn't only ethical, it's smart."

"The rest of us will use something proper for deer."


You also brought up the .410 ballistics as an example of its worthlessness but don't want to answer the question on whether a handgun with similar ballistics is "worthless".

There is nothing wrong with hunting deer with a .410 within its limits. If you disagree, hunt with something bigger.

[Spanky]

I could really care less if you have a problem with me and my "preaching"   

I THINK a .410 is junk for deer.....PERIOD.

If you want to champion the cause of the .410... Be my guest.


I'm done with you and your .410 fetish.



Shoot 'em up!!!

Spanky

[plumberroy]

Here what I know I grew up in W.V. we grew or harvested from the woods around 50%-60%  of our food There were 6 of us Dad, Mom,3 boys 1 girl We grew big garden plus sold to produce markets we worked so we put away the food.We killed deer when ever we needed meat. Nothing was said as long as you were local and didn't waste it. Deer are not as hard to kill as most think a 22 h.p. though the heart will kill one easily 410 2 1/2"1/5 oz slugs will kill them as far as you can hit them ( we never heard of brenneke back then)12 ga buck shot destroys a deer under 40 yards I was taught by old school hillbillies that grew up during the depression. they had to take any thing the could or go hungry pick the spot well and wait till you get a good shot . A 410 through the vital is much better than a  miss because of recoil flich or worse yet a leg shot off at the knee or a gut shot If you aren't good at picking the right spot and/or don't have the self discipline  to wait for a good shot then you need a bigger gun. if you pick your stand good and have the self discipline to wait for a good shot You can do just fine with a 410
Roy

[Doublebass73]

I could really care less if you have a problem with me and my "preaching"   

I THINK a .410 is junk for deer.....PERIOD.

If you want to champion the cause of the .410... Be my guest.


I'm done with you and your .410 fetish.



Shoot 'em up!!!

Spanky

Yeah, judging by your irrational rants and lack of answering questions when challenged I didn't think you cared.

Keep on preaching your hunting ethics brother. The rest of us will dream of the day when we can use something "proper" for deer.

[Spanky]

The rest of us will use something proper for deer.



Spanky

Spanky, since you've already defined the .410 slug as "worthless" let's compare it to these 2 common handgun hunting
calibers which are legal in many states. From Federal's website:

Energy in Foot Pounds (To nearest 5 Foot Pounds)

Load No    Caliber           Muzzle   25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
C357G    357 Magnum      466     439  416   396   378

Load No    Caliber              Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
P41B    41 Rem. Magnum     747   696  653  616   585

Load No    Caliber            Muzzle   25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y
F412RS       410               762    574  432  334  272


Are these also worthless? How about an arrow from a bowhunter which typically has less than 50 foot pounds of energy? Would you consider an arrow proper for deer?

Also, are there any other rules of yours we should follow to make sure we are being "proper" for deer hunting?

Still apples to oranges my friend.

Both handguns fire a heavier projectile and will offer far better penetration.

The .410's energy figures are misleading as they are achieved by higher velocity than the handgun rounds.
If the .357 and .41 were fired from the same length barrel as the .410 slug you would see the difference.

Look at how much quicker the .410 sheds energy when compared to the others.
Horrible BC and light projectile weight means poor penetration as compared.

It's really simple if you think about it.

The numbers on the website might look good but in the real world...

On a positive note...
This little debate has urged me to dust off my little .410 and do some experimenting with handloaded slugs. If nothing else this might change my mind a little.

Do you guys have any recommendations on handloads??

I can't legally hunt deer with it but coyotes and other varmints are fair game.



Spanky




One other thing...
In no way did I mean to offend anyone with my other posts.
If I did...
I apologize.

[Doublebass73]

Still apples to oranges my friend.

Both handguns fire a heavier projectile and will offer far better penetration.

The .410's energy figures are misleading as they are achieved by higher velocity than the handgun rounds.
If the .357 and .41 were fired from the same length barrel as the .410 slug you would see the difference.

Look at how much quicker the .410 sheds energy when compared to the others.
Horrible BC and light projectile weight means poor penetration as compared.

It's really simple if you think about it.

The numbers on the website might look good but in the real world...

On a positive note...
This little debate has urged me to dust off my little .410 and do some experimenting with handloaded slugs. If nothing else this might change my mind a little.

Do you guys have any recommendations on handloads??

I can't legally hunt deer with it but coyotes and other varmints are fair game.



Spanky




One other thing...
In no way did I mean to offend anyone with my other posts.
If I did...
I apologize.

Spanky,

I understand the whole slow & heavy vs. fast & light argument but you used only the energy numbers from the .410 as an example
of it's ineffectiveness. Going by strictly numbers those handgun rounds would also be ineffective. We both know that's not the case due to the bullet weights, penetration and that fact that thousands of hunters effectively harvest deer with handguns.

I also understand that the .410 slug has a terrible BC which is why that I've tried to stress that it is a very limited range weapon. My daughter will be using hers for the NH youth weekend and she practices at 25 yards. She knows this is her maximum range. That range is fine in the thick NH woods that we hunt. Obviously you'd want something else if you were hunting open fields. That being said I know quite a few people who have cleanly harvested deer with a .410 slug at ranges of 30 yards and under. The .410 may look bad on paper but in the real world at bowhunting range it gets the job done.

Let us know how your .410 handloads work out. I'm guessing that it will work fine on 'yotes out to whatever range it's accurate at.

[mozone]

My best freinds son killed an 8 point with a 410 slug while squrrel hunting!