38 smith&wesson

[hillbill]

yesterday a passed up a nice top break revolver in 38 smith & Wesson caliber. Ive done this before because i don't really know anything about this caliber.i know its not all that powerfull, prob like a 38 special short, so to speak.can anybody tell me anything about this cal and what it will do and if you can reload or make brass from a more readily available caliber?

[Mikey]

hillbill:  brass is readily available from Starline and bullets are available from a couple of sources.  The bore diameter of this round is .360-.361, not the .356-357 of the current 38 Special or 357 Magnum.  The original load was a soft lead 200 grain round nose bullet at about 600'/sec; this load can be duplicated with 3.3 gns of Unique under a 200 gn slug. 

If you intend to purchase this revolver check it over to make certain there are no bulges in the barrel.  Some of these revolvers may have had slugs stuck in the barrel and may have had another fired on top of it - if this is one of those handguns it should not be fired. 

The cartridge itself should not be considered a 38 special short - it simply isn't a 38 special.  It is named the 38 Smith and Wesson in this country, or the 38 S&W.  The British called this cartridge the 38/200 and felt it was the battlefield equivalent of their 455 Webley.  This cartridge worked well for them until the Germans complained about its lethality at the Hague Convention (the 200 gn soft lead slug left unhealing wounds and massive tissue damage) so the bullet weight was reduced to 177 gns, and later to the current 146 gns.

I have used this cartridge.  I can tell ya that the original loading is a hoot to shoot - so slow you can see it moving downrange when there is a fresh coat of snow on the ground, but do not doubt its lethality or its ability to 'whop' something.  I think less of the 177 gn load and even less of the 146 gn load and should I ever again own a 38/200 the only load I would use is the original.   JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Lee N. Fielder]

I'm pretty sure that Mikey is thinking of the WW2 Enfield or Webley .38/200 revolvers when listing his load data of 3.3 grains of Unique with a 200 grain bullet.  The Enfields and Webleys are MUCH stronger than the older Iver Johnson, H&R, S&W breaktops (and others of the same design).  These smaller guns are much weaker and the loads should be downgraded accordingly.  The 3.3 grain Unique load is listed by Alliant as being for solid-frame guns only (the Enfields and Webleys approach the strength of a solid frame).

The last data I saw from Alliant called for 3.0 grains of Unique behind a 146 grain bullet.  This load WOULD be safe for all those older breaktops, assuming they were made for smokeless powder.  Some of the older models were designed for black powder loads only.  I cracked the top strap on an old Iver Johnson .38 breaktop in my irresponsible youth because I was shooting smokeless loads in a black powder frame IJ and didn't know the difference.

Mikey is right about the fact that brass and bullets are available, but it is harder to find .360" or .361" bullets than those in .357" dia.  What works well in any of the .38/200 or .38 S&W guns is to use 150 grain hollow base wad cutters of .357" diameter.  Easy to find and the hollow base works kinda like a Minie ball to expand the .003" it needs to grip the rifling.  Don't seat 'em flush with the case mouth though as this will raise pressures.  Load 'em with half the bullet sticking out of the case so the overall cartridge length is the same as the factory loads with lead round nose bullets.

Mikey is also right about how much fun these old .38 S&W guns are.  You can shoot 'em all day without getting tired and the old breaktop guns that were chambered in this round are definitely refreshingly different from conventional DA revolvers.

-Lee

[mcwoodduck]

I have an old S&W top break No. 1 baby russian now and have had a S&W Victory model.  Fun funs.  The report is more of a pop than a crack.  Brass, Dies, and projectiles are easy to get.  Remington and Winchester still load for it with 148 grain lead round nose.  A friend of mine just loads his with the same lead he uses in his 38 spl's for cowboy action.

[Mikey]

Lee:  you're absolutely right about the strength of the top-break frames.  Thanks very much for that important clarification.  Mikey.

[S.B.]

hillbill:  brass is readily available from Starline and bullets are available from a couple of sources.  The bore diameter of this round is .360-.361, not the .356-357 of the current 38 Special or 357 Magnum.  The original load was a soft lead 200 grain round nose bullet at about 600'/sec; this load can be duplicated with 3.3 gns of Unique under a 200 gn slug. 

If you intend to purchase this revolver check it over to make certain there are no bulges in the barrel.  Some of these revolvers may have had slugs stuck in the barrel and may have had another fired on top of it - if this is one of those handguns it should not be fired. 

The cartridge itself should not be considered a 38 special short - it simply isn't a 38 special.  It is named the 38 Smith and Wesson in this country, or the 38 S&W.  The British called this cartridge the 38/200 and felt it was the battlefield equivalent of their 455 Webley.  This cartridge worked well for them until the Germans complained about its lethality at the Hague Convention (the 200 gn soft lead slug left unhealing wounds and massive tissue damage) so the bullet weight was reduced to 177 gns, and later to the current 146 gns.

I have used this cartridge.  I can tell ya that the original loading is a hoot to shoot - so slow you can see it moving downrange when there is a fresh coat of snow on the ground, but do not doubt its lethality or its ability to 'whop' something.  I think less of the 177 gn load and even less of the 146 gn load and should I ever again own a 38/200 the only load I would use is the original.   JMTCW.  Mikey.

Mikey, I once puffed a .45 ACP barrel (locked up at the barrel bushing) and was told by a custom gunsmith to file down the bulge and keep shooting it? Shot very good after the filing(so it would clear the bushing). What is your logic on your advice to not shoot a bulged .38 S&W barrel?

[Mikey]

Steve:  sorry for the delay in responding.  The reason you don't shoot a bulged barrel on a revolver is to prevent a bullet from sticking or upending in the barrel and then firing another on top of it, which could split the barrel.  The bulge on your barrel at the barrel bushing was at the far end of the barrel.  Mikey.