Author Topic: Marsilly carriage for 1857 Napoleon (Read 3666 times)

Terry C. · « **on:** September 23, 2008, 03:51:19 PM »

For those of you that never saw it, here is the original thread.

I've had this Marsilly carriage project on the drawing board for over a year now. Every time I thought I was going to get started, something else would come up.

But now I have incentive to put this back on the front burner. What that is, I'd rather not say just yet (in case it doesn't pan out). I have about a month to get this carriage built and finished.

I've tweaked the design somewhat since the first thread, to the point that it's not going to change significantly unless I run into unforseen problems (and I don't anticipate any).

You can click on the single view below to open a larger drawing with multiple angles:

After working out the final design over the weekend, so far I'm off to a screaching halt. Yesterday was no good, I had to work late. Today I'd planned to get home before dark and cut, shape, and drill the trunnion caps. Then I got stuck across town with a flat rear tire on the Harley, and had to find a way to get it back to the shop where I work and get home. By then it was too dark to work outside. Tomorrow... well we'll see.

What I DO have is a set of adhesive-backed templates for the cheeks, the formed piece of stainless steel that the trunnion caps will be cut from, the wheels, the elevator, the stainless rod and nuts for the tiebolts, the axle rod and nuts, bushings for the wheels, and enough oak wood to complete the build. I'll add the eyebolts and some other bits as I go.

Other than some hardware, this is the bulk of what I have to get me started:

The clock is ticking.

More to come...

rays89 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2008, 04:45:43 PM »

Terry I have had projects sit on the back burner for years sometimes it happens. But they get done eventually. What really caught my eye on this post is the way you are using antique faucet handles as the elevation screw. I have a project that I will be working on in December. I am still waiting on the barrel and some other parts. But the biggest obstacle was the elevation screw. Can you elaborate more detail on htis part you made.
Thanx
Ray
PS as for getting a flat on a hog I have been there. Thats when you realize that they are meant to be ridden. Because they are a pain in the A-- to push.

Terry C. · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2008, 04:15:26 PM »

Ray, this is the elevation screw assembly that I will use on the Marsilly...

It was made from the antique faucet handle in the right photo. These were purchased from a company that specializes in parts for, and restoration of, antique bathroom fixtures.

I used the other handle to make the elevator for the Napoleon's field carriage. It's been in use for years and has never given me any problems.

The elevators are all brass, except for the threaded flanges which are stainless steel. I concealed the flange underneath a brass plate on the field carriage, I'll probably do something similar on the Marsilly.

I've pushed this bike over a mile before, but that was with a broken belt not a flat. With a flat tire, it doesn't move so well.

Luckily, I was literally right around the corner (I had to got to the hardware store) so I retrieved my portable air tank and was able to limp into the shop.

Today was a less eventful, but very long day. We are perpetually shorthanded. I didn't get to replace the tube in the tire until late this afternoon. Still, I was able to get home with enough daylight to cut the trunnion caps from the formed stock. They aren't drilled yet, but they don't need to be yet.

This material is a stainless steel shim for the front idler of a John Deere bulldozer. It measures .105" thick, and is wide enough that I can cut another, wider set of caps from it (for a "project to be named later"). I cut these with a cutoff wheel in an angle grinder. Due to the mess, I'll only do something like this outside, so it was a rush to beat nightfall.

Now that I have the trunnion caps for fitting, I can drill and cut the oak cheeks. This (at least some of it) can be done inside.

rays89 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 25, 2008, 01:40:23 AM »

Terry
thanx for the info. We can talk about hogs all day. I just sold mine (89 FXRS). Gonna have to get another. But we woud be getting off topic if I keep going.
Ray

Terry C. · « **Reply #4 on:** September 26, 2008, 04:25:58 PM »

First mockup.

The cheeks are somewhat roughly cut (jigsaw), and still have the sticky paper templates on them. After the holes are spotted, I'll remove the paper.

They'll be bolted together and sanded to match.

The barrel isn't sitting all the way down in the trunnion pockets because theyre slightly undersized. They'll be opened up and sanded to the correct depth for the trunnion caps later.

Of course my assistant Lucy (Lucretia MacEvil, the cat from Hades) had to get involved...

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:42:50 PM »

Terry, Looks like it's coming along. The shape and size appears very proportional and we are going to have to watch this thread carefully because we have a 1/2 scale Napoleon tube that needs a carriage. The more we look at it, the more we like the Marsilly carriage, especially when we consider the alternatives.

As for your cat, she appears not to be afraid of artillery. And her name.........whoa!!..... purrrrrrfect! As you probably know, the story about cats and cannons goes something like this: Ancient cannoneers were lonely lot, held separate from the regular infantry troops, cavalry and archers. Because of the power of their weapons and their willingness to explode large quantities of powder, they were sometimes thought to be in league with the Devil, who, of course, was also very fond of fire and brimstone (burning sulfur), especially after their close association with cats was known. It is thought that cats were used by these fearless early gunners to inspect the bores of the ancient bombards and other large bore cannon after launching one of those heavy stone solid shot. We believe the idea was to push the cat into the bore and see how quickly it exited. A quick exit indicated a good bore without defects and a leisurely stroll down the bore suggested that maybe some dangerous defects were noticed which meant that longer fuses needed to be used for gunner safety.

Regards,

Tracy and Mike

Terry C. · « **Reply #6 on:** September 27, 2008, 01:32:02 PM »

Lucy is a Japanese Bobtail mix, and her name fits her personality, athough she's mellowed out in recent years. She no longer viciously attacks me for no apparent reason (now she only does it when she has a reason).

Sadly, she isn't so brave around firing artillery. She tends to make herself scarce when the booming starts. But during construction she is all about the details.

I bolted the cheeks together today and sanded them to match. It's still a rough sanded finish, I'll get to it with some finer paper as the pieces start coming together.

Second mockup:

More to come...

Oh, BTW: If anyone were to try to push Lucy down a cannon barrel, a quick exit would most certainly be followed by a violent display of teeth and claws sure to strike fear in the most hardened gunner!

Terry C. · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2008, 02:25:23 PM »

Yesterday's progress:

Here is where I deviate from the plans. Actually it isn't a deviation, but rather a return to my original concept of the carriage. I had intended in the beginning to angle the cheeks for a carriage that was wider at the rear, as the originals were. I gradually opted away from this in favor of parallel cheeks for ease of design and construction. I figured that the long slender barrel, with little taper in the breech area, would be okay with the straight carriage.

But as I was doing the mockups, the carriage just didn't look right. I decided to at least give the angled cheeks a try.

It's hard to tell from these photos, but each cheek is angled 1.75°, making the carriage approximately 5/8" wider at the rear. The floorplates aren't perfect, they were more difficult to cut to fit (especially the one in front) but I think they'll pass muster after the final fitting. Had I totally botched them, I would have reverted to my parallel cheek plans.

Another difference, that was brought on by the change from parallel to angled cheeks, was to make the front bumper and floorplate in a single piece. I had it drawn as two pieces to be glued together during construction. But since I couldn't use the table saw anyway, I did away with the glue-on bumper and cut it all from a single piece.

There will be a verticle crossmember (relieved for the barrel) where the bare tiebolt is. Another crossmember will be attached to the rear floorplate and drilled for the elevator.

After that I'll fabricate the axle box.

More to, well, you know by now...

KABAR2 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2008, 03:57:24 PM »

When I saw your lucy I had to do a double take! I was trying to figure out what my Mischief was doing hanging out at your house!

his grey on the head is a little more even but they could be brother & sister, he's not Japanese or bob'd tail.....

O.k. now to get the thread back on track that's an interesting carriage design and very nice work!

I pulled something off the web awhile ago we apparently had a simpler version for a 24 pounder

I'll have to see if I can find what book that was in.

Terry C. · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2008, 06:52:55 PM »

It doesn't look like it, but I have made significant progress in what little time I've had to devote to this project.

The trunnions have been fit into thier pockets to the the correct depth for the caps. The notches for the axle box (which is glued up) have been opened up to fit. The elevator screw flange has been recessed into the rear crossmember, the screws will be installed after finishing.

There are still things to do. The trunnion caps need to be drilled and the studs intalled in the cheeks. The axle box will need to be cut to length and the step cut into each end (the front floorplate is ¼" higher than the top of the notches). The eyebolts need to be installed. The axle rod needs to be cut to length and the wheels sandblasted and painted.

And finally, it needs to be completely disassembled, finish sanded, oiled, and reassembled.

But the list is getting shorter...

Terry C. · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2008, 03:36:06 PM »

KABAR2, I've seen that somewhere before. I believe it's part of a larger pivoting barbette mount.

The axle box is done. It's not fastened yet, but friction and the weight of the barrel will hold it in place for now.

The Marsilly is ready to stand on it's own two feet, um, wheels...

(as usual, you can click on any of the photos for a larger version)

The axle rod is a piece of 3/8" stainless steel threaded rod, with stainless steel acorn nuts in each end. The plated steel bushings are temporary, they will eventually be replaced with bronze bushings.

The elevator screw flange is still just sitting in its recess, I need to get the pilot holes drilled for the three small stainless steel screws that will secure it.

When it's completely done, I'm going to get some better photos. This late-night indoor stuff isn't cutting it.

Still several things left to do. But, this project is going to rest for the weekend. I've been spending what few spare minutes I had every day this week after work sawing, drilling, or sanding something. I promised the wife that we would go riding tomorrow.

Terry C. · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2008, 02:42:03 PM »

Trunnion caps (aka capsquares) are drilled, and studs are in.

This had me a little concerned, as the ease of drilling this particular piece of stainless steel was an unknown. Some of the various SS scraps in my collection are almost impossible to drill. No worries, these drilled easily.

I think it's about time to introduce the other characters in this production. You'll be seeing more of them later...

dan610324 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2008, 02:50:32 PM »

ooooohhh

nice friends you got there ;-)

but wouldnt they have liked an naval carriage better

Tropico · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2008, 03:11:32 PM »

Oooooooooo ! ., I knew it !!! I knew it !!! I knew it !!! There be Pirates here mate !!!

And by the way it does look like youve made signifigant progress. It is sharp, a most enjoyable thread heighten by the presence of Curly Moe and Larry.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2008, 04:25:45 PM »

Avast! not one peg leg or hook amongst them!!! Ken they truly be Pirates ?

Terry C. · « **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 2008, 04:51:13 PM »

Quote from: KABAR2 on October 06, 2008, 04:25:45 PM

Avast! not one peg leg or hook amongst them!!!

The night is still young...

intoodeep · « **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2008, 05:39:46 PM »

Ok, I'll go for it.... I guess that would be a Skeleton Crew.

Sorry, I have a poor sense of humor....

Tropico · « **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2008, 08:01:34 PM »

Quote

Skeleton Crew

I like it !

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2008, 12:11:57 PM »

Calendar material - October!

MikeR C · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2008, 07:23:26 PM »

Kabar,
If you try this link:

http://civilwarfortifications.com/library/aide-memoire

And scroll down to plate V I think you will find your "silly" carriage for a 24 pdr as well as a bunch more plates and the title of the book...

Victor3 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2008, 02:20:35 AM »

I love my cats. They're soooo happy when I wake them up...

Terry C. · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2008, 02:42:01 PM »

If that were Lucy, I'd be in danger of drawing back a bloody nub...

I broke the carriage down to its individual pieces for a final sanding, now it's waiting on the Danish Oil. It's rained all day, maybe tomorrow it'll be dry and I can get the finish on.

There are only seven pieces of oak (eight if you take into account that the axle box is glued up from two pieces), the rest is hardware.

The holes are drilled for the stainless steel eyenuts, for the rigging, but I don't have them yet. I have some bent eyebolts that are cheesy-looking but will work temporarily if the solid eyenuts aren't delivered before I'm ready to reassemble.

Terry C. · « **Reply #22 on:** October 11, 2008, 01:25:14 PM »

Two coats of Watco Danish Oil applied last night, reassembly this morning.

Not a good day for photos, dark and wet and rainy all day. Very little natural light coming in. The artificial light doesn't really show the finish well.

Switched over to the flash for the closeups, shows the color better despite a lot of glare.

When I get a chance to get into some decent light, I hope to get some photos that do the carriage justice.

As I said earlier, the bent eyebolts are temporary. I have some threaded SS eyenuts ordered. The eyenuts will be about the same size as the rings on these SS eyebolts, so they're an acceptable substitute.

These restraint attachments will take the brunt of the recoil when the gun is fired, so I wanted them securely bolted. Other, more cosmetic hardware will be added as-needed.

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2008, 04:21:19 PM »

Looks pretty good to me. It looks like another fine addition to your arsenal.
Congrats on getting one of DD's Kewpie Dolls.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #24 on:** October 12, 2008, 03:58:47 AM »

Terry, fine job, looks great. I like it.

Max

Terry C. · « **Reply #25 on:** October 12, 2008, 09:18:56 AM »

Thanks for the compliments, and thanks for the Kewpie (I hadn't even noticed it until Ex 49'er pointed it out).

A point I forgot to mention: I oiled the wood inside due to the weather, that made me real popular with the lady of the house! Still dreary weather today, but it's supposed to fair up in a couple of days.

Double D · « **Reply #26 on:** October 12, 2008, 01:00:40 PM »

Quote from: Terry C. on October 12, 2008, 09:18:56 AM

A point I forgot to mention: I oiled the wood inside due to the weather, that made me real popular with the lady of the house! Still dreary weather today, but it's supposed to fair up in a couple of days.

Well take her to dinner and maybe she'll get over it...oh, you really do mean the weather.

Terry C. · « **Reply #27 on:** October 17, 2008, 11:39:58 AM »

"Pirates of the Pumpkin Patch"

(click image for larger version)

This will be my calendar entry for the Marsilly carriage. Disappointment and heartache almost keelhauled this project at the last minute.

Disappointment in that this was to be more than a one-time photo-op. It was supposed to be on display in a friend's storefront for the week leading up to Halloween. Unfortunately, after all the work (and some expense), circumstances have arisen that will make that impossible.

And heartache in the loss of a beloved pet. You've seen the photos of Lucy, but there was another cat that we'd had for years before she came along. Bubba was a very old tomcat, and he died earlier this week. He lived a long (for a cat) and eventful live, and not having him around has us both in a real funk.

Lucy as well, she doesn't understand why she can't find Bubba.

Goodbye, old friend...

Terry C. · « **Reply #28 on:** October 17, 2008, 01:12:02 PM »

BTW: The 'eyeball' cannonballs are foil-wrapped chocolate candy. The base of the stack is pinned together with toothpicks.

I stumbled upon these by accident, I was actually looking for small skulls or something similar. They're so close in size to my cast lead balls that they could actually be loaded and fired as projectiles.

And they are quite delicious!

Terry C. · « **Reply #29 on:** October 18, 2008, 12:00:33 PM »

The polished cast stainless steel eyenuts arrived too late for the pirate photo. The least expensive source also happened to be the slowest to ship.

They'll eventually be bead blasted along with the trunnion caps. Here one is shown, with its cut-to-length SS carriage bolt, compared to the bent eyebolt:

This is how it looked with the bent eyebolts, with nuts and washers on the inside:

And this is how it looks now, with the smooth heads of the carriage bolts inside: