Author Topic: Where have all the Patriots gone? (Read 4543 times)

jcn59 · « **on:** September 24, 2008, 05:11:28 AM »

In June of 2000, in the Guns & Ammo magazine (p.18), David Codrea wrote a good article that is especially pertinent today.

Here's some quotes: "....we sure talk a good game. But what would happen if we ever needed to put our right to keep and bear arms to the test? ........by the standards of our forebears, we failed miserably."

More: "Is it your contention that our culture is immune to breakdown and decay? Do you think the trend in our government is to amass more power?"

And more: "What will you do when they tell you to register your guns? What will you do when they tell you your license application has been rejected?"

And my favorite, something Winston Churchill said some seventy years ago:

"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you, and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

It is not "a fight" when you bury your guns in the back forty to hide them from Uncle Sam. Those you bought from dealers are already registered with the ATF. As gun owners, 80 million strong, we need to send a message to our elected miscreants that we WILL NOT be relieved of our firearms by our government. We need to take THAT position.

I am not talking about shooting people so any of you who may have let your imagination run wild, put it to rest. For the rest of you, thanks for reading this.

So! Where have all the Patriots gone?

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:45:33 AM »

Why quote an article from 8 years ago? Since then we've had more gun rights than ever... I think we've spent the last 8 years doing well in our fight to retain our rights. People are members of the NRA, who is a HUGE lobby in the fight to keep our right to bear arms. Or am I just missing the point?

jcn59 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2008, 08:19:15 AM »

I suppose the point is rather ambiguous but it was an effort to enlist some of the 80 million gun owners, and others, to convey to our politicians that our rights, particularly the 2 A. rights are not subject to their interpretation.

We need to convey to government that we will not tolerate laws which infringe on our constitutional and God-given rights.

The least we can do is vote accordingly. The article written 8 years ago is as pertinent now as it was then, and yes, we have done well in the last 8 years, but here we sit, with two presidential candidates who want to end gunshows as we know them. And what else do they have in store for us? Don't forget, wasn't it 8 years ago that Senator McCain ran in the primaries as a democrat?

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2008, 08:39:44 AM »

"We need to convey to government that we will not tolerate laws which infringe on our constitutional and God-given rights."

Let us know if you need anything while serving your time.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** September 26, 2008, 09:13:17 AM »

jcn59 ,
after reading swampman , i see your point !
seems like a bunch of girly-men or fair weather gun owners !

jcn59 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2008, 09:34:59 AM »

STANDING UP FOR OUR RIGHTS IS PART OF THE PRICE OF FREEDOM, SWAMPMAN. IF I HAVE TO PAY YOUR "DUES", I WILL.

THIS COUNTRY WASN'T FOUNDED BY ACCIDENT. FREEDOM ISN'T FREE.

I MIGHT ADD THAT I DIDN'T BREAK ANY LAWS BY EXCERISING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH, AND I DON'T EXPECT TO "SERVE TIME" EITHER.

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 26, 2008, 09:53:45 AM »

I'm obliged to obey the laws of the country I live in. I'm a Christian.

I fought for your right to free speech. Enjoy it.

deltecs · « **Reply #7 on:** September 26, 2008, 10:24:59 AM »

It is time to remind those of the fundamental rights as listed in the Bill of Rights. These rights are not authorized by Government nor can Government ignore them. These Rights are inherent in a free people and are derived from historical and precidental societies, whereby these Rights are natural and not government grants. The Right to free speach, religion, and peacable assembly for redress of grievances, 2nd Amendment for protection of self, community and government excesses, Castle Doctrine, in which a man is king in his own castle, Right not to testify against oneself, trial by jury of peers, search warrants that must list the specific reasons for entry into the castle, all other Rights not enumerated to be kept by the people when the State has not enacted further regulations. These rights are natural Rights that our founding fathers recognized and provided safeguards in which government cannot ignore them. Without a Bill of Rights, the Constitution of the US would not have been ratified, so inclusion of them really places these Rights wirhin the body of the Constitution and not as Amendments only, which may be changed by Constitutional Amendment.
I for one also believe in law abiding citizenship. I also believe when government attempts to usurp those fundamental Rights, then by abiding by Natural law in prohibiting that action, I'm ensuring my freedom and Right to Happiness. I don't need Government to tell me how to live, where to live, what I need for my welfare, what foods I must eat, or what method is acceptable to maintain that freedom. So, if or when Government attempts to seize my only means of protection or other fundamental rights, then I will naturally rebel with force for the sake of free men in compliance with natural law above government.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #8 on:** September 26, 2008, 10:33:31 AM »

Oh boy... here we go...

So now its a crime to write our elected officials telling them how we feel about or 2. A. rights?

Quote

"...we need to send a message to our elected miscreants that we WILL NOT be relieved of our firearms by our government. We need to take THAT position."

I don't really think the article was talking about revolution and the Gun Owners forming their own nation, but rather the Gun Owners voiceing their rights to their elected officials preventing another gun ban. Enter the NRA... Gun owners of America and other lobbiest groups formed to protect the rights of American gun owners.

Quote

"I fought for your right to free speech. Enjoy it."[/i

]

Thanks... I use it every day! Sometimes 2x.

Swampman · « **Reply #9 on:** September 26, 2008, 10:36:01 AM »

"...we need to send a message to our elected miscreants that we WILL NOT be relieved of our firearms by our government. We need to take THAT position."

He hasn't said anything about writing. Sending a message can have more than one meaning.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #10 on:** September 26, 2008, 10:40:59 AM »

So then what is your take on that quote?

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** September 26, 2008, 10:54:21 AM »

It sounds threating to me. That's why I said what I said.

jcn59 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 26, 2008, 12:04:42 PM »

QUOTE: "I am not talking about shooting people so any of you who may have let your imagination run wild, put it to rest." That's what I said. Was the statement unclear?

Maybe you should exercise your right to read, and read the whole piece. "Send a message" usually indicates writing in my world.

For those of you who did read the entire piece, I guess it's pretty clear that I attempted to rule out violence.

I didn't write this piece to argue with people about what a "message" is. I wrote it to encourage readers to state their position on 2 A. issues to our politicians, and maybe tell them what "shall not be infringed" means. I wrote this to bring us together. If you want to make up stuff and argue, start your own thread.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #13 on:** September 26, 2008, 12:15:48 PM »

Keep up the good work friend. And please don't post if you haven't read all of the subject matter...

I still stand by my quote by which American gun owners have done more to protect our right to bear arms in the last 8 years than ever. Now we have had pro-2.A legislation past, in both the congress and in our supreme courts. But it is not to say that it remains safe. People are always looking to put weak people in a state of tyranny. We must remain vigilant and pray the day never comes when we have to use force to ensure our freedom...

Sam

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** September 26, 2008, 12:41:32 PM »

Quote

Where have all the Patriots gone?

One thing I think you can rest assured of. They DID NOT go into politics.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 26, 2008, 12:54:06 PM »

oh i guess i must have misunderstood churchills meaning..
it did sound to me like he was talking an fight of what ever kind necessary to preserve freedom..
that means politically to the enth degree and and all out win or die
physical fight if necessary.. i love my country but realize the freedoms ive enjoyed may someday even require my all to preserve..
let us not be so careful to be politically ,socially or anything correct when basic freedoms are under attack..
to do that makes us unworthy of the sacrifices made by too many men ..it also makes us play right into the hands of those who
would change us to the great utopian society where everything is provided for us by big brother..or so the well meaning liberals believe.. they will be the ones fooled worst of all..
im not an anarchist but do believe there comes an time to
do the same as churchill and our forfathers did..
words are not all thats ever been required in the never ending fight against oppression..
let me say id be in your corner all the way in an debate for preservation of freedom.. but churchhill knew a debate would never be anything but a down payment.. he knew those who read his words would someday have to pay the same price he was so willing to pay..so if i offend im just following his example ,,as he never was
shy about stating how he felt .. no matter who it made mad..
i of course have less to lose than some of the younger ones here..
im over 60 and if im ever gonna stand an be counted ,[win or lose] i better do it now.. yours in freedom slim

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #16 on:** September 29, 2008, 04:23:25 AM »

+1 to GB

pab1 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 30, 2008, 04:56:59 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 26, 2008, 09:53:45 AM

I'm obliged to obey the laws of the country I live in. I'm a Christian.

With that logic, the Revolutionary War would not have taken place and we would not enjoy the freedoms we have in this country.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #18 on:** October 01, 2008, 05:08:41 AM »

This is funny...

Quote

"I fought for your right to free speech. Enjoy it."

And then... his opinion of a segment he clipped out of the original post...

Quote

"We need to convey to government that we will not tolerate laws which infringe on our constitutional and God-given rights."

Let us know if you need anything while serving your time.

It's funny because he's a hypocrite ...

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** October 01, 2008, 05:11:26 AM »

Anyone stupid enough to make subtle threats against the government on the internet may serve time.

Any more questions about my point of view?

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #20 on:** October 01, 2008, 06:23:06 AM »

Quote

"Any more questions about my point of view?"

My post wasn't a question but rather a statement as to the fact that you are a hypocrite.

But your last post sure goes to prove my point lol...

Quote

"Anyone stupid enough to make subtle threats against the government on the internet may serve time."

Quote

"I fought for your right to free speech. Enjoy it."

So essentially your saying that you fought for our right to free speech... yet you refuse to enjoy the personal freedom of which you fought so hard for?

jcn59 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 01, 2008, 08:06:14 AM »

I guess everyone has an opinion, and they are entitled to it, but I don't think it advances our cause to focus on one man who is reluctant to exercise his right to "free speech" such as it is.

I think we all would be better served to write to Obama and let him know that we had second amendment rights before he was even born, and our rights will prevail over the course of his term if he is elected. I guess we should do it "courteously". I don't think he gets alot of letters promoting the 2A.

No, I have no intention of voting for him. I'll probably vote for that woman from Alaska who the War Hero is running with.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #22 on:** October 01, 2008, 04:33:41 PM »

Quote from: jcn59

"...what would happen if we ever needed to put our right to keep and bear arms to the test? ........by the standards of our forebears, we failed miserably."

The author's premise is misguided from the get-go and a goading perhaps to do more. No one, since the Founding Fathers, has been pushed to the ultimate test to "fight" against (implied) this Government's Tyrany. I would not consider my actions on behalf of the RKBA as "lying down" either.

I write email, a lot of email in support of pro-gun legislation, pro-gun votes, pro-gun candidates. I give preference to NRA Members. I encourage all of my hunting partners, their hunting partners, and all of their families and friends, through membership, to adopt the face of and to raise their voices with the NRA. I am the NRA and I Vote.

What do you do?

jcn59 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 01, 2008, 06:01:40 PM »

I'm the NRA & I vote also, and the rest of your second paragraph is how people would describe me. There needs to be more of us.

It's interesting to me that when I challenge people to look introspectively at their commitment to the second amendment, that most of the response takes the form of an argument about what a word "means", or some other item which misses the general point of my statement. The feeling that I get is that everyone feels they are doing more than their share and when asked to think about it, and when I try to encourage them to do more, they whine.

Here's an example: I quoted an author (David Codrea) from a piece he wrote 8 years ago. One of the responders said, "The author's premise is misguided from the get-go.....". Now it's not entirely clear to ME if the author's premise is misguided, and I read the entire original article, but that's not really the point, is it?

The "point" is that we all need to UNITE & do MORE, and it's crystal clear to me now, that's not going to happen.....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** October 02, 2008, 05:57:07 AM »

jcn59 , not everyones forebearer wanted to be free of the english king . so in effect some are acting exactly as their forebears did with reguard to gun rights as many surredered them.
If all Americans wanted to really live free it would be nice but IT JUST AIN"T SO !

jcn59 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2008, 06:40:48 AM »

Yes, you are right. I have a difficult time accepting it, but you are right.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2008, 07:26:02 AM »

The biggest mistake most Americans have is they believe that the rest of the world wants to be like us . The second biggest mistake is they can't see many people in the world are evil and wish to make us like them . The third mistake is they don't believe some live amongest us !
Maybe they will understamate the resolve of the true Patriots when they wake them , ONE CAN ONLY HOPE !

Land_Owner · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2008, 07:37:52 AM »

I got the impression from your post that the premise of the author was to compare today with 250 (+/-) years ago. Let's take it apart again:

Quote

But what would happen[/i] if we ever needed to put our right to keep and bear arms to the test? ........by the standards of our forebears, we failed[/i] miserably."

emphasis added.

You posted an excerpt that speculates on the future then immediately compares it the past (that has as yet not occurred).

My point is: THEN they had to SHOOT their way to Independence. We're not THERE today. Got it?

That was my point...and the fact that I AM the NRA and I VOTE. The pen is mightier today.

jcn59 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2008, 07:57:00 AM »

What part of "I'm not talking about shooting people" is so difficult for some of you to understand?

This is hopeless.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #29 on:** October 02, 2008, 09:24:12 AM »

Yes you did say "NO SHOOING." In that, I "...failed miserably". So sorry. Just shoot me...hehe.

And...is it not hopeless. You are not the lone voice in the wilderness, so stop bleeding all over the place. You and I are on the same page, but in different places.

You are suggesting, perhaps, that many should do more. This is a very diverse pro-gun web site with a limited, albeit high, readership

Quote from: Graybeard

So far for the year we're running from a low of right at 1.8 million to close to 2.2 million page views per month

But you're "Preachin' to the Choir" and even a number of them aren't on the same page with you. Some are not even in the same book.

You're making a call for Patriots as an NRA Life Member and debating hopelessness with an NRA Life Member. Whatzupwidat?