Which rifle is more accurate out of the box?

[351 power]

i don't think you can support an opinion that a savage is less than a remington. and it is just an opinion

[Swampman]

Opinions don't mean nothing.  Facts are all that matters.

[Coyote Hunter]

Opinions don't mean nothing.  Facts are all that matters.

That's a strange staement coming form you given all your opinions and your shallow grasp of the facts.

[teddy12b]

The fact is, both Remington and Savage have huge followings of loyal customers.  That tells you something.  I'm a savage rifle guy, but there are a few remington's I wouldn't mind buying too.  Fact is, they're both great in their own ways.

[jmayton]

Swampman, you say you've been shooting Remmys for 45 years now...why is that?  you got one and it shot well, so the next rifle you bought was a remington.  My guess is that the first rifle you owned (probably a gift) was not chosen because of extensive research and testing of all of the available rifles at that time.  You, or whoever gave you the rifle, purchased it because it felt right on the shoulder, had a good reputation for quality, and had a good price tag. 

Now if we need to get a bit more factual than a lot of personal experience, then compare the most accurate factory made rifles from all manufacturers.  For Savage and Remington those would be the LRPV and the 5R Mil-Spec respectively.  Most of what I've read puts these rifles on par with one another.  Problem is, they don't come in the same caliber.  So that comparison is not accurate either. 

To be really scientific we'd need to test a large sampling of each manufacturers production rifles all of the same caliber and shoot them in a controlled environment with the same ammunition by the same shooter or machine rest.  Then we have facts.  But until that happens, we have opinions.  Here's mine:  In the store comparing a Rem. 700 SPS to a Savage 11 Synthetic, the Remington feels more solid and comfortable in my hand.  But several years ago I was given a Savage 110 and it shoots sub moa.  So I know it's accuracy potential, I don't currently own a modern Remington bolt gun so I'll probably stick with what I've known.  You know Remington, great....when I have a question about them, I'll ask because I assume you'll know the answer.  But to call your opinion on another's preference in rifle fact is a bit absurd.

[Swampman]

Opinions don't mean nothing.  Facts are all that matters.

That's a strange staement coming form you given all your opinions and your shallow grasp of the facts.

The fact is Savage has always made nice entry level rifles to be sold in department stores.  They are very cheaply made for that reason.  They are kinda like CVA muzzleloaders in that respect.  At some point a shooter may become serious and then it's time to buy a Remington.  Those are the facts.  If you want fantastic out of the box accuracy the Remington is the right choice.  If you want a barrel held on by a "nut" and a sheet metal trigger the Savage is the one for you.

[GaryCrow]

The fact is Savage has always made nice entry level rifles to be sold in department stores.  They are very cheaply made for that reason.  They are kinda like CVA muzzleloaders in that respect.  At some point a shooter may become serious and then it's time to buy a Remington.  Those are the facts.  If you want fantastic out of the box accuracy the Remington is the right choice.  If you want a barrel held on by a "nut" and a sheet metal trigger the Savage is the one for you.

The fact is that Remington has always made nice entry level rifles to be sold in department stores also.  There's nothing high end about a remington, the round receiver M700 design was adopted because it was the cheapest way to make an action, not because of any quality or features advantage.  Remington M700's have always occupied the niche of being cheap basic rifles that shot pretty well.  Now savage is making cheap basic rifles that shoot really well.  Put a new savage up against a new remington M700 and 9 times out of 10 the savage will outshoot it.  There's absolutely no quality advantage to buying a remington and you'll generally pay more for the remington and walk out of the store with less rifle than the savage.

[ironglow]

  Last I recall, not only Savage...but Winchester, Browning, Marlin,Thompson Center and Remington were all available through department stores, so I would presume that debate should already be settled. Although most of my hunting/shooting is rimfire, I own centerfires by Marlin, Savage and H&R, having owned others including custom single shots as well.
   I have not been a huge fan of Remington, even though I have in the past owned and used some of them..that's just my two pennies and may not mean a thing to others. One thing that is hard to deny is the many unpaid endorsements by many who are regularly involved in the use and testing of the various rifles. ...And in recent years there have been a plethora of such folks that have declared Savage "best out of the box" ! Now with the accu-trigger as icing on the cake, they may just be the best accuracy purchase, especially dollar-for-dollar in the popular gun world.
   
  I have heard complaints of the Savages being ugly, yet I consider them to be sharp looking..especially in the area of chamber to barrel transition (permits simpler barrel switches also). Still, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...and I doubt any deer, bear, coyote or polecat is at all impressed with a "pretty" gun !

      Outdoor Life has just declared a Savage rimfire to be the most accurate rimfire they have EVER tested in their long history and if you take a look at Savage news  www.savagearms.com/   ,you will see the new Palma competition model they have just introduced. I doubt they are entering Palma competition..just to lose..
      Yes; for much, much more money there are several European brands with excellent accuracy reputations, but I lived in Europe long enough to discover that a large part of the hefty price on various Euro products is a result of hype and snob appeal...

[Swampman]

The Savage is geared to the department store sales.  It always has been a cheap entry level gun.  They do make good muzzleloaders.  If you're just getting started, strapped for cash, and want something to hunt with, the Savage will get the job done.

[jmayton]

The Savage is geared to the department store sales.  It always has been a cheap entry level gun.  They do make good muzzleloaders.  If you're just getting started, strapped for cash, and want something to hunt with, the Savage will get the job done.

So what does that have to do with the topic at hand?  Can a "cheap entry level gun" "geared to the department store sales" be as accurate or more accurate than the high end Remington?  Your answer...no.  Everyone else's...sure.  The fact is, both Remington and Savage make entry level guns both geared to department store sales.  But then both make higher end guns (not sold in department stores) like the CDL and the Classic line, and both make accurate target rifles. 

I'm not going to argue that Savage is better than Remington or any other brand....different strokes for different folks.  That's all.  But I'll gladly put my out of the box Savage 110G against any out of the box Rem SPS.

[teddy12b]

I'm not getting the big box store debate, or is it just me.  I can drive over to the local Dick's Sporting Goods store and find remingtons & savages, so what?  Both manufacturers make high end & economy end rifles.  I'll admit that savage is new at getting into the high end rifle game, but within the last few years with all the F-Class rifles they're making and 12series rifles they have made a new name for themselves. 

Not to mention the Accutrigger (either loved or hated) has stirred up the entire industry.  Why do you think Remington has the X-mark trigger that they put on some of their guns.  Other manufacturers are now putting adjustable triggers on their rifles now too.  The new triggers didn't just happen.  The accutrigger became all the rage and left competition in the dust.

Having said all that, I'd love to buy a Remington SPS tactical 20" 308 because it seems like it would be a great gun in the field and at the range. 

I'm a savage rifles guy and I approve this message.

[Swampman]

The fact is, both Remington and Savage make entry level guns both geared to department store sales.  But then both make higher end guns (not sold in department stores) like the CDL and the Classic line, and both make accurate target rifles.

That's not quite true.  Remingtons are sold in department stores, but they aren't designed from the ground u to be cheap department store rifles.  Savage doesn't make a high end gun.  They do put their standard 110 into a nice classic walnut stock, and call it the 114.

[jmayton]

That's not quite true.  Remingtons are sold in department stores, but they aren't designed from the ground u to be cheap department store rifles.  Savage doesn't make a high end gun.  They do put their standard 110 into a nice classic walnut stock, and call it the 114.

And the difference between the action of the SPS and the CDL is what exactly?  As far as I know, Savage is the only manufacturer who actually offers a different factory action (Precision target action on LRPV and f-class).  Remington's factory actions are all the same except for length.

[Badnews Bob]

I really don't understand this line of thought at all, Savages were around way before walmartand alot of other stores that sell them, so how can you say they where designed to be sold there? I have handled and shot some high end rifles and Rems look like junk compared to them. (I have some friends who have more money than they can waste, nice of them to let me play with they'er toys) I sure can't afford them nor can I afford remingtons mostly, I have splurged a coulpe of times and own a couple nice CZs.  I buy what I can afford and I am considered a fair shot, with my NEF handie rifles I do very well.

 My point is, why put down every thing else when they do just fine? Rems are fine rifles but many are better, many are not......Don't shove a brand name down my throat.

[slim rem 7]

 i admire a man that sticks to his opinion under pressure..that said ive owned both 700 and 110 .. i made an real accurate rifle outa the rem . note my handle..
 then bought an real accurate savage at department store under advice of a member here..sighting in took four rnds an the win,power pt 180 was at 2 high at the hundred.. then grace smiled down on this poor novice and i decided to shoot up what few fusion 165 i had left..the rest be history .. all four rnds nailed the center bulls eye..havn t touched the scope since and it hasn t changed..
  hunting isnt benchrest .. im only interested in hunting accuracy..but i still aint gonna change nothing until i haveto..never thought in my wildest dreams that i would end up with this quality gun.. quality being measured in ability to put said rnd where shooter wants to..in other wds confidence in rifle..swampman got that confidence in his gun an don t back dn from it..me id rather have him backing me up than a lotta fairweather  friends i know[i don t consider internet people friends,just nice helpful aquaintances with similar interest]..you gotta know how to tell if a man is gonna stay in a clutch situation ..i know who to call here where i live..these days  its not in style to stand you grnd for some  reason.. .but thats another story. yall be doin good now..slim

[jmayton]

Standing your ground by saying "I like remington better than all others.  It's the best rifle I've shot." is one thing.  Standing your ground by saying that "Remington is the best rifle, period.  And I can support this by numerous facts." but never give them is quite another.  Like I said, I trust Swampman's opinion on all things Remington, but when it comes to this, he's way off base.

[slim rem 7]

 your point is good as to truth .. but i was speaking to his h--- or high water
loyalty to his choice.. theres a place for that in this wishy washy world..
   everything in moderation ..cept lovin o course.
   besides fellas the remington 700 is a proven rifle,whether the best outa the box or not..or not....
 

[Coyote Hunter]

I'll take an entry level Savage (Stevens) over an entry level Remingtoin (M770) any day.

When it comes to the standard Savage models (11-114) and the M700's, Remington has the better cosmetics but no better accuracy.

Of course the Stevens is the same action as the Savage but with even less going toward cosmetic stuff that adds nothing to accuracy potential.

[wareagleguy]

I found a used bull barrel savage in 308 and my handloads are doing 1/4" groups.  Man, will that thing shoot.  I also have the new VTR Remington in 308.  While very nice it's not quite the hole puncher the Savage is.  Neither holds a candle to my Tikka's trigger.  Tikka/Sako has the best factory trigger, period.  I also have a CZ 550 in 6.5 x 55 and found it to be the best hunting rig I have ever owned.  This IS the round!!!  My next will be a custom Savage long action with a custom 6.5 x 55 barrel.  Hello!

[Fat NDN]

10 year old Remingtons are great, had a few. I think the new ones are not so good, since Remington sold out.
My vote is for either the Savage or CZ, they both shoot great right from the box. Both of the ones I have shoot
one hole groups at 100 yds.

[Coyote Hunter]

10 year old Remingtons are great, had a few. I think the new ones are not so good, since Remington sold out. ...

My 1975 M700 BDL in .308 Win is noticably more accurate than my 2005 M700 'Special Purpose Wood' in .30-06. 

Fortunately both shoot 'well enough' and I plan to keep both of them.

[teddy12b]

In 2002 I bought a brand new Remington 700 BDL 300RUM.  By the time I found ammo that shot well in it I was already so disgusted with the lack of accuracy in the rifle that I sold it.  What put me over the edge was when I had a savage 210F 12gauge shotgun that would out shoot my brand new remington.  Since then I've been buying savages.  I could have just had a bad BDL or maybe the caliber 300RUM isn't that accurate, but it was probably just a bad rifle to get in that caliber.  I'm not crossing remington off my list for forever over one rifle, even though I'm still a little bitter.

[Swampman]

Which rifle is more accurate out of the box?

The Remington 700

[jmayton]

Which rifle is more accurate out of the box?

The Remington 700

Obviously, that is not true for everyone.

[Swampman]

Which rifle is more accurate out of the box?

The Remington 700

Obviously, that is not true for everyone.

The problem isn't the rifle.  It is only a tool.

[jmayton]

Which rifle is more accurate out of the box?

The Remington 700

Obviously, that is not true for everyone.

The problem isn't the rifle.  It is only a tool.

The why all the "Remington is the greatest rifle ever conceived by man and all others are cheap junk" rhetoric if it's only a tool.  Why not say, "I like Remington the best.  It's always worked for me and I'll continue to purchase and shoot Remington rifles.  If you don't like them, fine, get something that you do like and go hunt with them.  But I still think they are the best out there."  C'mon man, have a bit of common sense and respect for the views and experiences of others and stop posting your opinions as fact. 

[Swampman]

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/


"the most accurate, and most popular rifle in the world"

[jmayton]

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/


"the most accurate, and most popular rifle in the world"

You're actually quoting facts from the Remington website?!  You're such a propaganda junkie.  Like some manufacturer is going to put on their website, "The most reasonably accurate, semi-popular rifle in the world."  or "Our rifles are just good enough."  Seriously, everyone claims to make the most accurate rifle.  And don't try quoting some evaluation or review, there's little unbiased opinion in the world of firearms.  Shoot your remmys...enjoy them, but don't try to tell others that they are better than the rifle that they are currently shooting.

[Tunaman]

quoting Remmingtons Website about Remmingtons quality means very little. As you are apt to point out about gun writers, Maybe the web designer was paid to say that.

[Swampman]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_700.htm