Author Topic: Comments on Economic Reality  (Read 1369 times)

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TM7

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Comments on Economic Reality
« on: September 25, 2008, 12:03:30 PM »
Dear Friends:

The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.

We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.

Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I'd only be repeating what I've been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.

Still, at least a few observations are necessary.

The president assures us that his administration "is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets." Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?

We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.

Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or "wildcat capitalism" (as if we actually have a pure free market!).

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: "Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk."

Doesn't that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn't the federal government shown that the "many" who "believed they were guaranteed by the federal government" were in fact correct?

Then come the scare tactics. If we don't give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary "the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet." Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.

It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks' manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:

Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.

To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end... It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.

The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.

The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?

Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a "rescue plan"? I guess "bailout" wasn't sitting too well with the American people.

The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you're supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.

I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.

H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.

In liberty,




Ron Paul

Offline Heather

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 12:59:59 PM »
It is a shame that someone who really gets what is going on was not given a fair shot at the Republican bid for pres.  IMO the economic "crisis" we are now facing just puts Bush one step closer to declaring Martial Law and declaring himself God of The United States.  TM your views are a little out there sometimes, but I totally agree with what I have read on your stance on Bush's puppet masters evil intentions, so pass me my tinfoil hat please.  ;)

Heather
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Offline TribReady

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 08:18:42 AM »
My personal, gut feeling is that Bush won't declare martial law, but the next president will. The heavy hand of government will come down hard on the US citizens.
There's too many things falling into place

BTW, TM7, can you PM me that link as well. Just curious and it can't hurt reading more info, can it ?  Thanks
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline Elijah Gunn

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 04:01:11 AM »
Please PM me that web link also.
 Ive been checking out Alex Jones, and David Icke lateley,and it sure seems like big brother is ready to make his final moves.
What will you say on Judgement Day?

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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 12:49:11 PM »
maybe  they  want   the dollar  to  crash........then  you  can  only buy gas  and  electricity and  water  bills  with  the  Amaro
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline 30-30man

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 02:02:32 PM »
What I can’t understand is that nobody is working on the problem that is the root to all these troubles.  Since 9-11, the price of food, fuel, and utilities have steadily increased.  The average family pays over three times what they were paying only seven years ago.  Salaries and wages have not kept up thus causing many to default on their mortgages. 

There was some predatory lending that caused some of this but most people want to pay their mortgages no matter what the terms were.  The bail out will only prolong the problem until we find cheaper sources of energy.  Just ask anybody in the home construction or auto sale business.  People are not buying and everything is slow right now.  It all boils down to the need for cheaper forms of energy.  We are only seeing the beginning of this problem until we face our biggest problem.

Offline deltecs

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 04:18:41 PM »
What I can’t understand is that nobody is working on the problem that is the root to all these troubles.  Since 9-11, the price of food, fuel, and utilities have steadily increased.  The average family pays over three times what they were paying only seven years ago.  Salaries and wages have not kept up thus causing many to default on their mortgages. 

There was some predatory lending that caused some of this but most people want to pay their mortgages no matter what the terms were.  The bail out will only prolong the problem until we find cheaper sources of energy.  Just ask anybody in the home construction or auto sale business.  People are not buying and everything is slow right now.  It all boils down to the need for cheaper forms of energy.  We are only seeing the beginning of this problem until we face our biggest problem.


This is the entire crux of the matter.  Cudos for this post.  Less money to spend or pay credit and the whole economy collapses. 
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline deltecs

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 12:17:45 PM »
I've been saying for over 25 years that our economy was artificially dependent on oil especially and fossil fuels in general.  This massive redistribution of wealth from American markets has effected every single avenue of our economy.  Any increases in fuel costs, anywhere, directly or indirectly effects our pocketbook as consumers.  The oil companies and other businesses deal with percentage of return on their investments, rather than amount of profit.  A 10% increase in fuel relates to a 10% on 10% on 10% for however many middlemen are between the manufacturer and consumer.  That includes shipping on all goods and services bought by the consumer.  If a businessman can manufacture for less cost somewhere else, he'll do it.  He doesn't care about the shipping cost to the consumer, if the product can still be sold, but his profits will be higher.  Our Congressional leaders, especially the Dems through its environmental constituents, have prevented almost all alternative sources of energy constuction and prevented current energy plants from expanding to provide low cost energy fuel.  This has resulted in keeping the same percentage of profit margin, with the resultant increase in profit dollars throughout the business community.  Big oil has not changed it percentage of profit by much, yet it is having record profit dollars.  Most of this money is being sent overseas to the middle East.  This massive financial transfer of wealth reduces the liquidity of dollars available to the consumer and businesses for short term credit.  The current financial crisis is not one of just the Bush administration, it is the American people who have not demanded alternative energy sources, but have voted for candidates and officials that have prevented their construction and has been building for over 20 years.   
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 02:44:45 PM »
Banks were pushed into making loans to people that couldn't afford them. With low interest rates, some people got greedy and tried to make windfall profits, by buying and selling home's. Investment company's were always trying to make the investors the most for their customers, even if it meant too good to be true bottom lines. As the CEO's always got their ''golden parachute'', even if workers or investors lost. Company's went overseas for cheaper labor or less regulation, new jobs created usually paid less. Hard to buy a new car for $30,000, when your income dropped by 1/2 or more. And there is always the''keep up with the Jones's'' mentality. Always buy that new gadget,'puter,extra large screen tv,etc., etc., but never save up for it, always put it on credit. The American way. Well, I believe that ''way'', is about to change! Drink tap water, not the .99 a bottle stuff. More hamburger and mac and cheese, instead of steak.Not as many trips to the 'burger joints, and more homemade pizza's. (I like my doctored up $2 pizza's better anyway!) I do believe we are the slide down hill, just don't know far, or steep the slope is.  gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline 30-30man

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 04:08:44 PM »
When people who are already strapped to the rim with debt, see their other expenses rise 300% in a little over five years, something has to give. Living expenses have grown too much for the average American.  It all boils down to the cost of fuel.  The problem won't go away until the majority give it the attention it deserves.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 04:32:46 PM »
gypsyman...you  forgot  to  mention stop smoking  and  drinking  and  reload  you  own  bullet.......i  am  in  the  rental  business  i  am  their  first hand  throwing people  out  on  the  streets  they  are  the  victims  of  their  own vices  and  they  should  die for  all  i care   ....if  their  kids end up living in a car  then  they  should learn what  happens  when  your not a responsible person
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline TribReady

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2008, 04:05:14 AM »
YOU are the culmulitive sum of all of YOUR choices in life.

The Bible says (big time paraphrase time now) that the sins of the father will be on the children. I don't think it refers necessarily to "punishment", but it is referring to the repercussions.  The repercussions of our choices, good and bad, are felt by us, but also onto our children.  Learned bad behavior and bad choices are repeated.  Perfect examples are unmanageable debt, multiple generations of welfare recipients, crime, drug and alcohol abuse, child/spouse abuse, etc
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2008, 04:40:23 AM »
gypsyman...you  forgot  to  mention stop smoking  and  drinking  and  reload  you  own  bullet.......i  am  in  the  rental  business  i  am  their  first hand  throwing people  out  on  the  streets  they  are  the  victims  of  their  own vices  and  they  should  die for  all  i care   ....if  their  kids end up living in a car  then  they  should learn what  happens  when  your not a responsible person
I posted this elsewhere but it fits here too.  In school I filed taxes for low income people as part of the VITA program.  We would generally travel to poor areas or public housing and a line would form.  They wanted to file a tax return to qualify for either housing credit or essentials sales-tax refunds. 

Anyway, the thing that I couldn't get over... Nearly every single freaking one of those houses or appartments has cable or satelite.  Here's what I think:  I think people talk a big game, but at the end of the day, $50 a month or more for cable has become an "necessity".  Even when times are tough, sitting on the couch and rotting your brain has become the new American way.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2008, 05:33:53 AM »
Ron Paul is a goober but here's a comment worth reading.  Hold on to you socks boys & girls.  The ride will be rough.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/edmundconway/3105965/Financial-crisis-Western-world-will-become-significantly-less-wealthy.html
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2008, 05:53:19 AM »
Who cares what the rest of the world thinks we should do.  Let's do what needs to be done and worry about our own freedom and soveriegnty, rather than listen to those who have already given up on theirs...
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2008, 06:04:39 AM »
SCREW CONGRESS!!  The decision on a bailout should be decided by us, the taxpayers at the ballot box. >:(

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2008, 08:58:46 AM »
Talking with a friend last week, use to be a bank manager over 20 years ago. Asked him what he thought of this mess.(remember, this was before the 700+ drop)He said, he had lost $100,000 in one stock. Still had more in it than when he bought it. So he was going to leave it in. Don't know if he had some buried in the back yard or not. I've never seen or had that much money, so is inconsevable of me to understand this.He talked like it was no big deal. And I guess what bothers me the most,is, out this fiasco, is that 6 month's to a year from now, when it plays out, nobody will go to jail over this. Probably lose their job, won't make their 4 million bonus. But, probably in the millions, hard working people who set up retirement funds, will be short. Maybe a little, maybe alot. Maybe none at all. And Martha Stewart went to jail? Considering what she did, is like a pimple on an elephants butt, compared to this. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Swampman

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2008, 09:06:17 AM »
I believe it's a little late to worry about our freedom and sovereignty.  Those horses left the corral in the late 1950s.  Nothing good has happened since.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2008, 09:16:34 AM »
I believe it's a little late to worry about our freedom and sovereignty.  Those horses left the corral in the late 1950s.  Nothing good has happened since.

Swampman... I don't want to hear you tell anyone else about how you fought for their rights and freedom after hearing you say that... You have got to be the single biggest sellout and tool I have ever seen... Way to belittle everything our troops have fought and died for... 

Sam
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Swampman

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2008, 09:37:51 AM »
I'm not the one that left the gate open.  Not one single good thing has happend in America since the late 1950s.  That's not my fault.  I've done all I could to prevent it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2008, 09:40:16 AM »
Are you a liberal socialist?
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Swampman

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2008, 09:46:46 AM »
I'm a very stanch very conservative Federalist.  All we've had in this country since the late 1950s is mob rule.  Everyone is only interested in themselves, and what they can get for free.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2008, 09:50:13 AM »
Well if you feel that there is nothing that can be done, then sit back and be quiet...  We'll fix this, but if you feel like rolling over and playing dead then get out of our way... There is work to be done.
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Swampman

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2008, 09:55:34 AM »
If there's a God in heaven, you won't fix it.  It cannot be fixed unless America returns to the faith of her fathers.  That ain't gonna happen.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Comments on Economic Reality
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2008, 09:57:28 AM »
Geez
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."