dealership and finance company screwed up

[bluebayou]

I bought a rifle the other day at a large Honda ATV dealership.  They offer "no money down, no interest for 12 month" financing.  I completed the 4473 and signed a contract with the dealership's local finance company with first payment due on 10-24-08 for x number of dollars.  We're done, I walk out the door.

I got a call today from the salesperson, she never had me complete a credit check form and never sent it to the finance company.  Someone printed my contract, she took it and I signed it.  So she wants my info over the phone.  "well, worst case scenario you will have to mail us a check for <x number of dollars>".

Personally, I am thinking, "too bad".  I will mail the finance company the payments starting on 10-24-08 by certified mail maybe.......but I don't believe that I will be mailing anyone a full payment tomorrow. 

Granted, no one has threatened me in anyway yet.  I could purchase it outright after Christmas, but I went this route now because it was available.  What would you guys do at this point? 

Wait until someone higher up calls back?  I have no intentions of dealing with the salesperson going forward, I think that this is a management type situation.  ATF-wise the rifle has been transferred to me....they don't care how it is paid for.....I don't think.  It is across multiple state lines.  I don't see where they have any recourse if they want the rifle back. 

(I do intend to pay for the rifle)

[williamlayton]

It is a done deal---ask why now? It is a moot point.
Blessings

[Swampman]

"So she wants my info over the phone."

Never give anyone info over the phone. 

[rex6666]

I work in sales, registered vehicles.
#1 get credit app. filled out AND SIGNED, by buyer.
#2 send to finance co.
#3 wait for finance co. to say OK we will fund, upon receipt of proper
documents.
#4  when all documents are signed, sales person may release said equip.
to buyer, from then forward buyer talks to finance co. dealer ship
is out of it "UNLESS DEALERSHIP FAILED TO DO THEIR PART"
seems like some one failed to do their part. don't think it exempts you from
paying but should exempt you from taking a load of crap, think i would
ask to talk to management.

[Singleshotsam]

I agree w/ Swampman... Never...ever... give info out via the phone.  You might contact the manager at the dealership to find out what is going on.  And I would do that FTF w/ contract in hand and rifle in truck in case you need to return it...

Sam

[bluebayou]

"So she wants my info over the phone."

Never give anyone info over the phone. 

I know.
When I told my boss at work, she flipped OUT.  I recognized the salesperson's voice on the phone, but it never occurred to me.  I guess that I just panicked thinking that I would lose the rifle that I wanted so bad.  My boss then pointed out, "how did you sign the credit application over the phone?"  Someone at the dealership must have signed my name to the application.

It has been 24 hours with no contact from the dealership.  I think that I will call the Sales Manager on Monday and see what the situation is. 

[DalesCarpentry]

"So she wants my info over the phone."

Never give anyone info over the phone. 

I know.
When I told my boss at work, she flipped OUT.  I recognized the salesperson's voice on the phone, but it never occurred to me.  I guess that I just panicked thinking that I would lose the rifle that I wanted so bad.  My boss then pointed out, "how did you sign the credit application over the phone?"  Someone at the dealership must have signed my name to the application.

It has been 24 hours with no contact from the dealership.  I think that I will call the Sales Manager on Monday and see what the situation is. 

I think if someone there signed your name to a credit appt. you would have a legal road to go down that you could own that rifle for free. Dale

[jvs]

When you first started this thread you said you saw the rifle, completed the forms, signed a contract, and walked out the door.

I bought a rifle the other day at a large Honda ATV dealership.  They offer "no money down, no interest for 12 month" financing.  I completed the 4473 and signed a contract with the dealership's local finance company with first payment due on 10-24-08 for x number of dollars.  We're done, I walk out the door.

Then you say that later, and while you were on the phone, "Someone" printed your contract, She took it and I signed it.  Then you insinuated that you are a possible victim of Forgery.

My boss then pointed out, "how did you sign the credit application over the phone?"  Someone at the dealership must have signed my name to the application.

I got a call today from the salesperson, she never had me complete a credit check form and never sent it to the finance company.  Someone printed my contract, she took it and I signed it.

and...

It is across multiple state lines.  I don't see where they have any recourse if they want the rifle back. 

Were you ever in the Dealership or not?  How can you claim to sign a contract over the phone?  Either I am not following your explaination properly or your story has holes in it.  Personally, I think if some Law Enforcement Official read your story, he/she may think it would be worth looking into.   

Anyone who gives you credit has every right to call in the 'loan' at anytime they please, for any reason.   

If you want my opinion, you better get it straightened out unless you want the Police and ATF knocking on your door for a questionable multi-State Line gun sale, possibly a "Ghost" or "Straw" purchase.   They will frown on a gun sale to an out-of-state customer with NO background check.   

In any case, the gun may be going back to the Dealer, and you and the Dealer may face multiple Criminal Charges.  Since this rifle is not in your possession and is over multi state lines, most of the explaining may fall on your shoulders.

[bluebayou]

what?

I went to the dealer.  I completed the 4473.  I signed the contract.  I signed explanation of credit terms.  I left. 

24 hours later the salesperson called and wanted my credit information because she forgot to do the CREDIT background check. 

I was physically present, I physically possess the firearm.  I don't understand where you are getting the misunderstanding. 

The states in question allow out of state purchases.  That isn't an issue.  My only point in bringing it up is that I am a fair distance away and do not wish to drive all of the way back to resolve this.  I don't believe that criminality factors into this situation. 

Actually, I don't think that we are understanding each other. 

[deltecs]

I might be in error here and would like clarification, but I thought out of State firearms purchases must send the firearm from one FFL to another within the State of residence.  It is the FFL in the State of residence that must do the background check before the buyer takes possession.  I realize that even though a buyer shows up in person, this doesn't absolve the seller from compliance with federal firearms requirements for transfer.  I'd check this out carefully before doing anything else.  I could be wrong but I don't think so.

[kyelkhunter3006]

You can buy long guns out of state, within a certain area.  For example, where I live in NKY, they can sell long guns to people from OH, IN, for sure, and I think WV too.  It has to do with the distance and/or whether your state of residence and the state of sale touch each other.  I buy long guns in Cincinnati all the time.  Handguns have to be transferred in your state of residence, by a dealer in that state.

[deltecs]

You can buy long guns out of state, within a certain area.  For example, where I live in NKY, they can sell long guns to people from OH, IN, for sure, and I think WV too.  It has to do with the distance and/or whether your state of residence and the state of sale touch each other.  I buy long guns in Cincinnati all the time.  Handguns have to be transferred in your state of residence, by a dealer in that state.

Thanks for the clarification.  I guess I won't have to worry about it though as no State is adjacent to mine, just countries.

[bluebayou]

You can buy long guns out of state, within a certain area.  For example, where I live in NKY, they can sell long guns to people from OH, IN, for sure, and I think WV too.  It has to do with the distance and/or whether your state of residence and the state of sale touch each other.  I buy long guns in Cincinnati all the time.  Handguns have to be transferred in your state of residence, by a dealer in that state.

Correct, in Oklahoma, for example, I can sell to someone from pretty much everywhere but California, North Dakota, Nevada, Washington, Kentucky....maybe 7-8 states total.  We have a nifty little color coded map that we use. 

I think that most states allow purchase from adjacent, bordering states.  In this particular circumstance the state where I purchased the firearm allows purchases from Oklahoma and the state that I passed through to get there. 

[jvs]

Now that we got all of the irrelevant information out of the way, the chronology of events as explained in the original post makes no sense. 

At least one thing I have learned over the years is when something looks like bullcrap and smells like bullcrap, it is probably best not to taste it because it will probably taste bad too.

While no one expects you to give your personal information over the phone to someone who may not be who they claim,  you still have a flawed purchase of a firearm.

In my opinion it would be in your own best interest in the long run for you to get it straightened out.

[bluebayou]

Wow.  I think that the chronology in the first post makes sense.  Yes, looking back on it, there is some irrelevant information. 
Revised chronology:
I go to store
I complete 4473
I complete finance contract
Transaction completed in cash register/computer
I leave store
24 hours later salesperson calls
Salesperson wants credit application info
Salesperson says that she forgot to complete credit application
I give salesperson my employer name, SSN, net income, and personal reference
24 hours later I post on GBO

Now I am defending myself to a moderator who has twice accused me of lying. 
Thanks for your input. 

[jvs]

I am not accusing you of lying, what I am saying is that the events, as laid out by you in your first post and latter ones, made no sense to me.  Outside of the fact that everyone agrees that no personal information should be given over the phone regardless of the circumstances, it appeared to me that you are trying to find a way out of the deal without paying for the rifle.  If that is not the case, I stand corrected.

If that first post and subsequent posts make sense to everybody else, I guess it is a subject and a set of circumstances that is way over my head.  It wouldn't happen here in Pa, I dont care what state you're from.  Gun sales must be squeaky clean in this day and age or there will be penalties.

As far as being a Moderator goes, the Name Tag holds no more sway in this forum than you have, nor does it have much pull in the forum I moderate.  Maybe you should read up more on what Moderators are responsible for here on GBO.  I got into this one as a Gun Owner with concerns as to how this transaction looked as you laid it out in your first post.  And I am willing to bet that there are many more who are watching this thread than you think.  It's the way it works here.

My only other question at this point is ...  How many times are you going to have to revise the chronology of events until you get it right?  Your last post looks pretty good.

[bluebayou]

I am fully intending to pay for the rifle.  What?  I am going to brag on this forum that I have been visiting everyday for four years that I am going to steal a firearm?

I never said that the transaction was completed correctly. 

My point in posting is that I am worried that I will have to give the firearm back because I cannot afford it right now.  I can afford $30/month, but not a lump sum.  It isn't the end of the world, but I really want the rifle.  Maybe it is childish. 

I am worried and wanted advice as to whether someone could come to the house to Repo the rifle, if the contract is valid, if the ATF interested in payment and not just disposition. 

What do I have to gain by either a) lying about this transaction, b) just making the whole thing up, or c) trying to justify my part in the transaction.  What would be my ulterior motive?  I have intentionally NOT mentioned the name of the companies involved and intentionally NOT mentioned the states involved.  There is no sense in giving a company a bad name about a situation that will probably be resolved. 

So NO ONE has poor customer service or poor training in Pennsylvania?  The salesperson screwed up and didn't complete the transaction correctly.  Mistakes happen. 

I agree, gun sales must be squeaky clean.  Taxes must be paid, NICS background checks must be made, the bound book must show the logged firearms, etc. 

What amazes me is that I thought with your last post that we were going to "agree to disagree".  I was thinking, "maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all"..........Then you say, "how many times are you going to revise your chronology until you get it right?" 

If you are not accusing me of lying then we simply are not communicating on some level.  From my perspective, I have not changed any facts in the chronology.  Maybe I was not explicit. 

The troubling paragraph in my first post I think is this:
"I got a call today from the salesperson, she never had me complete a credit check form and never sent it to the finance company.  Someone printed my contract, she took it and I signed it.  So she wants my info over the phone.  "well, worst case scenario you will have to mail us a check for <x number of dollars>"."

Maybe I could have phrased it more correctly such as:
I got a call from the salesperson, she said that she never had me complete a credit check
She said that at the time of purchase, someone in Finance Dept printed the contract and she gave to me
She further asked for my credit application information over the phone.
She closed the conversation by saying, "well, worst case scenario you will have to mail us a check for <x number of dollars>"

My point in posting is that I am worried that I will have to give the firearm back because I cannot afford it right now.  I can afford $30/month, but not a lump sum.  It isn't the end of the world, but I really want the rifle.  Maybe it is childish. 

I will call on Monday to see what the company has figured out.  I am curious if anyone other than the salesperson is aware of any credit discrepancy.  If she says that everything is good, then I will mail the first payment certified/signature required.  I figure if they cash the first check then the credit company is accepting the terms of the contract that I have in hand.