AR15 whats your opinon?

[Swampman]

police themselves

You can't be serious?  You've chosen to interpret this to mean the anits are right and you've given up.  You gave up and joined the opposition when you sold off your "extensive paramilitary collection."  I once quit a job because the libtards who owned the company decided not to allow anyone to carry on company premises so tell me, which of us will be responsible if our rights are eliminated.  Please note I said if not when.  I state it this way because I've read the 2nd amendment and understand what it says.  There is no mention of "keep and bear arms" as long is they're percieved under a certain light. 

This is the kind of response I expected.  It's completely wrong headed, but it's what I expected.  I didn't feel like losing $25,000-$30,000 dollars so I sold them.  I still have an extensive collection of hunting guns, but I don't buy expensive stuff anymore.  I figure the semis and pumps will go first so I keep those to a min.  You do what you think is best.  I may live another 25 years.  I fully expect gun ownership to be illegal within my life time.  Being "in your face" will only accelerate the process.

I have to drive 60 miles to a legal range.  Neither of those will allow you to fire more than one round every 10 seconds.  One of them says you can't pick up a piece of brass if you drop it.  Where do you think this is all going?

[Cement Man]

I haven't shot an AR type since the mid 60's when it was loaned to me by Uncle Sam.  Although getting one is way down on my list, (behind a 28 guage O/U and a Steyr 95) I would now like to have one.  I admire the versatility of the platform, I'm interested in predator hunting, and after shooting alongside my friend's Rock River Arms - I am impressed with the accuracy and performance.

I live in Illinois where goofy gun laws have steadily progressed for years.  I can't even order a flintlock muzzleloader kit from Cabela's any more.  Look at the Illinois State Police website and see the definition of a firearm.  I believe, by definition, that a cork shooting rifle, (even with the string attached) is technically a firearm in Illinois.  I'm waiting for someone to get arrested for illegally possessing one.

My point is, if you think that there is some intermediate point in this game, where the libs, antis, and "don't-cares" will respect safe and legal ownership and use of guns - you are wrong.  I am certainly an advocate of hunters and gun owners demonstrating good behavior and a positive image - but then again I expect that of everyone.  Two weeks ago our sporting clays tournament to support the Soil & Water District Education fund was chronicled in our local newspaper.  That is a good thing.  But realistically, I doubt that it does anything to dissuade the antis on their mission.  The antis want to outlaw guns - period.

Like Nomosendero posted - they understand incrementalism.

[jmayton]

this is really an eye-opener for me.  I live in a small ranching town in Texas and when i got my AR i saw a friend at the hardware store who i knew would want to see it, so i stopped and we pulled the rifle out and he was checking it out.  It drew a crowd, but everyone was interested in it and no one called the cops.  It's so normal around here.  I've forgotten what it's like to live in an anti-gun environment.

[Old Syko]

I've forgotten what it's like to live in an anti-gun environment.

It's not that I've forgotten.  I've just never known anything different.  This is why i fail to comprehend the mentality that would allow someone to freely accept being controlled.  If I found myself in such a situation and knew I couldn't overcome the ignorance I would be gone so fast as to not even leave a dust trail.  I make it a point to try to take at least one poor brainwashed individual to the link provided twice a year for reeducation.

http://www.machinegunshoot.com/

[nomosendero]

this is really an eye-opener for me.  I live in a small ranching town in Texas and when i got my AR i saw a friend at the hardware store who i knew would want to see it, so i stopped and we pulled the rifle out and he was checking it out.  It drew a crowd, but everyone was interested in it and no one called the cops.  It's so normal around here.  I've forgotten what it's like to live in an anti-gun environment.

I live in AR & I know what you mean. I talked alot through the internet whith a fellow in WY that is really into single shot pistols, the XP type. I told him I would be up there for a Antelope hunt & would like to meet him & talk guns. So
one morning before the hunt we decided to meet in McDonalds before we went to the ranch. He & his son met us &
And we started talking guns, this guy competes at 1,000 yards with these guns. He asked the manager of this McD.
if he could bring in the XP & SHE said, sure. So he brings it in & opens up the bi-pod and setsit on a table &
we all look at it & aim through the scope a time or two. If we had been East of the big river for the most part or up "NORTH" we would have been locked up. So, yes the area has a lot to do with it, which means the Libs have already won in many parts of the USA & just ready for the majority of the country to cave & if the Libs continue to indoctrinate & we fail to educate it will happen.

[Swampman]

We can postpone the inevitable by controlling ourselves.  That's what adults are supposed to do.

I don't scream fire in a movie house just because I have the right to.

[R.W.Dale]

This is the kind of response I expected.  It's completely wrong headed, but it's what I expected.  I didn't feel like losing $25,000-$30,000 dollars so I sold them.  I still have an extensive collection of hunting guns, but I don't buy expensive stuff anymore.  I figure the semis and pumps will go first so I keep those to a min.  You do what you think is best.  I may live another 25 years.  I fully expect gun ownership to be illegal within my life time.  Being "in your face" will only accelerate the process.

WOW! Nowhere on any gun forum have I seen a person give up on our 2A rights up as you have.  Way to roll over and take it like a man.


Kinda reminds me of a poem.

    "In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

    And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

    And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

    And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Pastor Martin Niemöller

 Giving up on what you enjoy in order to be the last on the list just means you lost first.

[nomosendero]

Swampman Quote from reply #13
  I do feel that they are bad for our public image when used for hunting (esp. big game hunting.)  That's why I sold mine.  

What makes you feel that way.   You're not alone, a lot of men see it like that, with no and's if's or but's, allowed; but why?

Please note, I haven't said anything about getting rid of black rifles.  They have their place.  Even full autos have their place in the hands of the private citizen.  The average citizen doesn't even know the difference between a full auto and a standard AR-15.  I had to explain that to friends many times.  They see an AR and they think it's a "machine gun."

I work in a company where a fellow was fired for drawing a picture of a knife.  I deal with a lot of people on a daily basis.  Many of them (mostly women)view all gun owners as physcos that are ready to shoot up the nearest school or workplace.  You wouldn't believe some of the questions/treatment I've been subject to.  The paramilitary look of the AR-15 simply reinforces those ideas.  Walk down the road in this county with a hunting rifle and few will think anything.  Be seen with a black rifle, and most folks will call the cops.  As you can tell from the post above people aren't willing to police themselves.  "I will exercise my rights, and I don't care what anybody thinks" is the order of the day.  I actually sold off my extensive paramilitary rifle collection because I felt it was better to get the money out of them before the government took them.  That time is coming.  If Obama is elected, it's coming soon.

You have certainly proved my point here. You say "many view ALL gun owners as phycos that are ready to shoot up the nearest school or workplace."  So really they hate guns period. That is the progression that takes place
& you gave up a rifle you enjoyed to pander to people that hate ALL guns in your own words, so you made yourself "feel" good & accomplished nothing. Again, it goes back to our previous failure to educate folks & not go the "Zumbo" route. And with mentioning Obama you proved my point again, does anybody actually think he will be after
AR type guns only?  

[jmayton]

Nomo, I think it has to do with lifestyle as well.  I'm in a ranching community.  Rifles are tools here.  I'm a youth minister and I go hunting with my students occasionally.  Most of us were raised around guns and are responsible users of them.  In an urban setting, this is not the case and guns are not needed on a daily basis like they are here in rural america.  The truth is that the majority of the people live in urban centers and have little knowlege of living off of or in proper relationship wth the land anymore.

[R.W.Dale]

Oh and for the record.
If I see someone walkin down a country road waring a flannel shirt jeans and an orange hat and vest carrying an AR15 I wouldn't think a thing about it.

  But I saw a guy walking down the street wearing a black trenchcoat and dark glasses carrying a winchester m94 I would be calling the popo ASAP

[nomosendero]

Krochus, I do believe you are an ARKIE!! 

[R.W.Dale]

Krochus, I do believe you are an ARKIE!! 

Is it that odvious

[45-70.gov]

never  had  a  need  for  one  until  i  saw  that  performance center ..i  see  nothing  wrong  with  hunting  with  them...in  Florida  i  must  use  my  5 round clips  to  hunt......and  remove  flash light  and  30  round clips.....  i  generally  shoot  it  with  the  10   round clips  just  my   preference......it  is  amazingly  accurate.....power  way  beyond  the  felt recoil ,,,all  stainless  and aluminum.....i  only  have  one now  but  that  WILL  change......IF  YOU  DON'T  HAVE  ONE , GET  ONE     Tim

[Swampman]

I guess you guys drive around town all day with a deer on the hood too.

I haven't given up anything.  I still own exactly what I want.  I don't want a black rifle.  I want my kids & grandkidsto be able to hunt.  That's why I acted responsibly.

[R.W.Dale]

That's why I acted responsiblycowardly.

There's no sense living under any false pretenses as the libs do, essentally you gave in to peer pressure just as a 14yr old teenage girl would....SO

There fixed that for ya!

It boggles my mind that to YOU hunting is more important than OUR BILL OF RIGHT'S You do realize that the constitution garentees our right to own guns, Hunting has no such protection. Think about that

sad really sad. I wouldn't be able to look my children in the eye if I had your view

[45-70.gov]

once  they  ban  the  AR-15   the  AK-47   .50BMG   the  fun  spray  and  pray  hand  guns      and  all  the  FUN  stuff  that  SCARES  them    then   they  will  be  able  to  devote  ALL    their  efforts  toward  that  most  reliable and MOST  efficient  killing  machine.......a  bolt  action  rifle  with a  good  scope    i  want  to  draw the  line  in  the  sand  as  far  away  as  possible......DO  NOT  SUPPORT THE  DEMOCRATIC PARTY

[Swampman]

OUR BILL OF RIGHT'S

Doesn't say we can own an AR-15.

It's little wonder we are losing this battle.  People only have to listen to the talk at the gun shows tables 5 minutes to decide we are irrational and dangerous.

I was kinda hoping you didn't have children.

[R.W.Dale]

OUR BILL OF RIGHT'S

Doesn't say we can own an AR-15.

It's little wonder we are losing this battle.  People only have to listen to the talk at the gun shows tables 5 minutes to decide we are irrational and dangerous.

I was kinda hoping you didn't have children.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 Funny I cannot find the rem 700 mentioned either? I guess they left that out cause everyone knows that the 2A is about huntin . personally I find your "take my neighbor first" mentality ABHORRENT, intellectually disgusting and downright craven.   

It's little wonder we are losing this battle.

LOSING??? Have you followed the news on this matter since the mid 90's.


I'll make a prediction

You'll see hunting banned in this country on an animal rights angle long long before guns are.

[R.W.Dale]

NOW I want you to tell me what a AR15 with a 5rd mag does differently than a rem 7400 that makes it so much more evil.

[AtlLaw]

 
The answer is SO obvious!  the AR doesn't have to do anything differently!  It has a flash suppressor, bayonet lug and pistol grip!    And our gub'ment has said before that those are inherently EVIL things!     Gotta go, my AR is calling me... it wants to go to a school yard...

[Old Syko]

Got just the AR for those who have chosen to cow down to the liberals.  All evil features have been removed for the safety of the children.

BTW, this thing is real.

[45-70.gov]

THAT   PINK  GUN  IS  JUST  WHAT  I  NEED  TO  GET   GIRLS  TO  GO  TO  THE  RANGE  WITH  ME......are  they  sold  out  just  like  the  pink  Charters  i  have  been  trying  to  stock      lOL

[Swampman]

All the sophomoric bravado is making my head hurt.  Keep up the good work fellows you'll have guns and hunting banned in no time.

[R.W.Dale]

All the sophomoric bravado is making my head hurt.  Keep up the good work fellows you'll have guns and hunting banned in no time.

The problem is you have no facts, precedent or even solid reasoning to support your crossthreaded pre 1997 viewpoint.

 To be frank it's just downright stupid to say that a gun isn't suitable for hunting based solely on it's appearance.

That's your opinion....Fine

OK but 20 yrs from now when you're shooting with your grandkinds and one of them comments on a guy like me shootin his AR15 and how they would like to try one out.

 You look that kid in the eye and say "I had some of those, but they scared some people so I got rid of mine in order to fit in. We can't have those because they make other people afraid"

You know Bill Ruger and Jim Zumbo would be proud


again  NOW I want you to tell me what a AR15 with a 5rd mag does differently than a rem 7400 that makes it so much more evil.

[R.W.Dale]

 to add fuel to the fire, this is a pic of my new deer rifle I just built.

20" 7.62x39mm with NM sights a detchable carry handle and a scope mount for a burris FFII en route.


OH! and a bayo lug and flashider for no other reason than they didn't cost any extra

[Swampman]

All the sophomoric bravado is making my head hurt.  Keep up the good work fellows you'll have guns and hunting banned in no time.

The problem is you have no facts, precedent or even solid reasoning to support your crossthreaded pre 1997 viewpoint.

 To be frank it's just downright stupid to say that a gun isn't suitable for hunting based solely on it's appearance.

That's your opinion....Fine

OK but 20 yrs from now when you're shooting with your grandkinds and one of them comments on a guy like me shootin his AR15 and how they would like to try one out.

 You look that kid in the eye and say "I had some of those, but they scared some people so I got rid of mine in order to fit in. We can't have those because they make other people afraid"

You know Bill Ruger and Jim Zumbo would be proud


again  NOW I want you to tell me what a AR15 with a 5rd mag does differently than a rem 7400 that makes it so much more evil.

I wouldn't hunt with (or own)a Remington 7400 either.  No one said an AR-15 was evil.  I didn't say a gun wasn't suitable to hunt with because of it's apperance.  I didn't say I got rid of it because it sacred people.  I got rid of it (and a truck load of other paramilitary stuff)while I still could legally.

If my grandkids ask, I'll just tell them that responsible citizens don't hunt with black guns.

[R.W.Dale]

If my grandkids ask, I'll just tell them that responsible citizens don't need a hideous black gun to compensate for their lack of manhood.

Responsible citizens don't need self proclaimed Benedict Arnold's judging them on what type firearms they choose enjoy.

You twis the words around every way you can, but the overriding theme behind your responses is I'm afraid they'll offend others

I'm afraid

I'm afraid

I'm afraid

afraid

afraid

 afraid

[Swampman]

Unfortunatly for you.  I won't be the one judging.  I think they are OK for self defense, and High Power match shooting.  It's the non-shooting world that will make the decision.  They will take yours (soon)and you will have no money to show for it.

I just want to prolong the time we can own guns and hunt.

[R.W.Dale]

Unfortunatly for you.  I won't be the one judging. I think they are OK for self defense, and High Power match shooting.   

So let me get this straight they're OK to kill people with but you better not use on on bambi as that usage might offend some liberal bedwetters who live on one of the coasts.

That's so dumb sounding it boggles my mind, I think I lost some brain cells just from reading that.

It's the non-shooting world that will make the decision.  They will take yours (soon)and you will have no money to show for it.

I just want to prolong the time we can own guns and hunt.

I'm bout as worried about that as I am the world coming to an end in 2012 or the new supercollider at Cern creating a black hole that'll swallow the earth

Again have you kept up with ANY of the 2A related developments in the past decade or so. We're paying for the winning team so to speak. In light of the Heller case Politicians or the Supremes won't touch gun related issues for what's likely to be the next 30 yrs.
 You fail to grasp the concept that people who don't get guns, DON'T GET GUNS. Much like people who aren't into cars don't care about or understand the major differences in a 3800 buick vs a 3.5L nissan v6 and non gunners could care less about what separates a rem 870 from a Saiga. As with the car analogy both engines make the car go just like if it shoots it's an evil gun.

I have this funny mental image of some uniformed thug confiscating your Remington 700 while you loudly proclaim "hey I'm on your side"

[nomosendero]

Swampman Quote from reply #13
  I do feel that they are bad for our public image when used for hunting (esp. big game hunting.)  That's why I sold mine.  

What makes you feel that way.   You're not alone, a lot of men see it like that, with no and's if's or but's, allowed; but why?

Please note, I haven't said anything about getting rid of black rifles.  They have their place.  Even full autos have their place in the hands of the private citizen.  The average citizen doesn't even know the difference between a full auto and a standard AR-15.  I had to explain that to friends many times.  They see an AR and they think it's a "machine gun."

I work in a company where a fellow was fired for drawing a picture of a knife.  I deal with a lot of people on a daily basis.  Many of them (mostly women)view all gun owners as physcos that are ready to shoot up the nearest school or workplace.  You wouldn't believe some of the questions/treatment I've been subject to.  The paramilitary look of the AR-15 simply reinforces those ideas.  Walk down the road in this county with a hunting rifle and few will think anything.  Be seen with a black rifle, and most folks will call the cops.  As you can tell from the post above people aren't willing to police themselves.  "I will exercise my rights, and I don't care what anybody thinks" is the order of the day.  I actually sold off my extensive paramilitary rifle collection because I felt it was better to get the money out of them before the government took them.  That time is coming.  If Obama is elected, it's coming soon.

You have certainly proved my point here. You say "many view ALL gun owners as phycos that are ready to shoot up the nearest school or workplace."  So really they hate guns period. That is the progression that takes place
& you gave up a rifle you enjoyed to pander to people that hate ALL guns in your own words, so you made yourself "feel" good & accomplished nothing. Again, it goes back to our previous failure to educate folks & not go the "Zumbo" route. And with mentioning Obama you proved my point again, does anybody actually think he will be after
AR type guns only?  

You say you are prolonging things when in reality yo are speeding things up for the anti's. Which gun are you willing to
give up next? You hunt with Handis & M700's, maybe you could give up your M700's so thatyou can hunt with the Handi
for another 5 years, it will make YOU feel good.    No thanks, caveing is not part of my personality.