357 Herrett Problem

[DonL100]

I have an early 70's Contender in 357 Herrett. I was getting ready for elk season, fire forming cases at the range using preformed cases from Midway. When firing the action would open up. I mean, after the trigger was pulled and the round went off the action was wide open. I've never had this problem before. I emailed TC customer service twice with no answer. Also, some times the firing pin will just slightly hit the primer with no discharge. Any one have any of these problems? Thanks, Don

[Tommyt]

I can't help , but here is their number , I find them more than nice and Helpful when I call 1-800 -243-4570 one of the very few (including family members ) numbers I remember ,but because its 2 nice Calibers its easy for me LOL

Tom

[Dezynco]

Sounds like you're not locking up tight.  Try giving it a good cleaning around the chamber and area where the rim of the case goes.  Also make sure the extractor in moving freely by removing the barrel and cleaning under it.  I've had my Encore .308 flip open once when it was closed well.  I've also had it click on a round or two when it wasn't closed solid.  Make sure there's no dirt and gunk to keep it from closing tight.

[csi-cop]

Light primer hits sounds as thought the shoulder of the formed cases are too far back. With the barrel removed, remove the extractor and drop in one of the loaded rounds. Using a straight edge across the rear of the barrel see if the case is even or below the edge. Put the barrel back on the frame and using a feeler gauge see what the frame to barrel gap is. This measurement would be the maximun amount you would want the case to protrude above the barrel edge. Herrett's are head spaced on the shoulder to ensure primer ignition. On mine I like to have the cases set to the point a "slight" amount of snap is needed to close the action. And here maybe the other problem if too much force is needed to close the action the interlock may still be engaged blocking the firing pin action.
As far as the barrel coming open I am assuming that this is a new or new to this frame barrel. Use a perment marker to see how far the locking lugs are engaging. off hand i don't remember the maximum movement but 1/8 inch is coming to mind. if the mark on the lug is apparently too little a light stoning on the top of the lug should help with getting it to have more movement. Just remember to not change the angle of the lug. also a little stoning goes alooong way.
Last or first check your grip if your off hand is getting on the guard with the recoil of the 357 Herrett it's possible to be pulling it open on recoil. Not that I've done that  , but a shooting buddy reminded me of this when I first started shooting the contender that the lower trigger guard was not a finger rest.
BE safe!  If in doubt, Send it out.

[DonL100]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info and will check it out. My buddy and I originally bought our contenders in the early 70's. I bought a 30 Herrett, he got both the 30 and 357 Herretts. Two years ago I bought the 357 Herrett barrel from him. I've had no trouble with the barrel until now. I have taken two elk with it and will try for a third this year if I can get it working. Thanks again, Don

[Steve P]

Locking lug is not locking up tight.  Clean your gun good and put a little grease on the locking lugs.  Lugs should seat nearly to top of half circle.  If they are not, you will not trip the butterfly in the frame and you get symptoms of light primer hits and action opening on firing.

Good luck!!

Steve

[Lone Star]

There is a lot of good and bad information in this thread.  First, NEVER put any liquid lube in your action, lug included.  These parts are intended to operate dry as per the T/C instruction manual.  Lube collects grit etc that prevents proper operation.  Clean it well with a degreasing spray.

Second, a light primer strike is usually caused by the shoulder being too far FORWARD, preventing the action from fully closing. This prevents the interlock safety from releasing the trigger block fully, blocking the hammer from maing a full hit.  The other causes are usually a poorly-fitted barrel or faulty/dirty lug/breechface.

Since the OP had good luck with the barrel until recently, either his dies/press/brass have changed or are out of adjustment, the locking lug is dirty or damaged, or the action is so dirty from caked lube and dirt that it won't close.  Possibly the lug spring has gotten weak, it should be replaced with a new one - and if the barrel does not have a two-piece lug it is time to make it so.   My 1975-vintage .30 Herrett barrel is still going strong, but it has a stong lug spring and a 2-piece lug, and I keep it very clean.



.

[Steve P]

There is a lot of good and bad information in this thread.  First, NEVER put any liquid lube in your action, lug included.  These parts are intended to operate dry as per the T/C instruction manual.  Lube collects grit etc that prevents proper operation.  Clean it well with a degreasing spray.

Lone Star is correct.  Do not put oil, WD40, or similar "liquid" lube on the locking lugs.  Use a good fluoropolymer or similar grease.  I use the Tetra Gun grease on mine.   My T/C Trained and Authorized T/C Repairing Gunsmith uses an anti-sieze lube that is made for gas engine assembly (it has moly in it).  Use this sparingly to keep the locking lugs from galling. DONT GOOP IT ON.  Just a touch is all you need.

Second, a light primer strike is usually caused by the shoulder being too far FORWARD, preventing the action from fully closing. This prevents the interlock safety from releasing the trigger block fully, blocking the hammer from maing a full hit.  The other causes are usually a poorly-fitted barrel or faulty/dirty lug/breechface.

Lone Star is again correct!  If your sizing die is not properly adjusted to bump your shoulder back .001"-.002" your cases can keep the action from fully closing.  This keeps the looking lugs from locking up all the way, which then doesn't trip the butterfly so the trigger is not dropping fully........   Sometimes you don't notice this on the first few firings.  Some folks actually over-work the shoulder buy sizing it too much which in turn decreases case life.  I take my barrel off the frame to check the casing fit with a good straight edge.  NO ROCKING.  Straight edge should sit across chamber opening, with a piece of brass in the chamber, and should not rock or have any movement.  Depending on the cartridge and the pressure, the brass may not fireform to your chamber on the first firing.  When you check it with the straight edge it may appear to fit just fine.  On these, I only do a partial sizing of the neck.  I do not bump the shoulder with the sizing die.  When it comes time to load them a second time, I check them again.  This is one of the best reasons to keep a log inside your ammo box on the number of firings and how you size the brass.  My 7TCUs get neck sized 3 times then get a full length sizing with my die ajusted to just bump the shoulder to make them fit the chamber.  It takes those three firings for the brass to grow enough where the shoulder may keep my barrel from closing all the way.

Since the OP had good luck with the barrel until recently, either his dies/press/brass have changed or are out of adjustment, the locking lug is dirty or damaged, or the action is so dirty from caked lube and dirt that it won't close.  Possibly the lug spring has gotten weak, it should be replaced with a new one - and if the barrel does not have a two-piece lug it is time to make it so.   My 1975-vintage .30 Herrett barrel is still going strong, but it has a stong lug spring and a 2-piece lug, and I keep it very clean.
 

Don said he did not have the problem before. (No mention if before was last week or in the mid 70s). The only thing mentioned was the pre-formed Midway brass.  Setting the sizing die up so brass fits flush with chamber opening should resolve any problem with the brass.  Lone Star's comments on dirty or damaged lugs or action is probably second item to check.  Once the parts are cleaned up and confirmed un-damaged, put a little grease on the upper (shiny) surface.  Close and open the action.  Did the grease move on the locking lugs?  The grease should be moved and you should see a little line of grease about level with the top of the semi-circle in your locking lugs.  If grease is only moved part way, your locking lugs are not fitting your frame correctly.

Good Luck!  Get an elk!!

Steve

[chazgin]

I have/had 357 Herrett and 7x444 B barrels for my Contender. All the brass sizing info is right on. There was one more thing that happened to me and it was light primer hits when using rifle primers. Sometimes they went off and sometimes they didn't. I replaced the hammer spring and this solved the problem. Be forewarned! ! Replacing the hammer spring can be frustrating without an exploded view, proper pin punches and 3 hands.

[DonL100]

Well, I took my action apart, cleaned it, and made the mistake of taking out the hammer and spring. Any help would be appreciated in putting it back in!!!!!! I figured out where the looped part of the spring goes in the hammer but where does the straight end hook on to and how do you get it in? I also set the shoulders back on the cases and checked that the case was flush with the chamber. I've got a week before elk season.........Help!!!!!!!!Thanks, Don

[Graybeard]

Somewhere on here there is a really good explanation on it perhaps in the sticky at top. I've said here many times JUST DON'T DO IT yet folks continue to try. Now ya know why I say don't do it.

[DonL100]

Hey guys, I figured out how to install the hammer and spring. I cut a piece of bolt the same diameter as the pin holding the hammer in place and shortened it to fit inside the hammer to hold the spring in place. I popped the pin in place moving the bolt and it did the trick. I think I figured out my original problem. With the barrel off the action I checked to see if the cases fit all the way in to the chamber. I found that when I crimped the bullets it expanded some of the necks not allowing the round to fully seat in the chamber. Hopefully a trip to the range will tell if that was the case. I can tell you one thing for sure. I can now strip and assemble a contender with my eyes closed!!!! Thanks for all your help. Don

[DonL100]

Problem solved!!! Thanks for the help!!!!!!! Don

[lastchanc54]

As a former owner and lover of both the 30 Herrett and the 357, I was interested in reading these pages. I noticed that you are crimping your loads. This can cause more problems than necessary. In a single shot firearm, it is not necessary to crimp your loads. There is no recoil to unseat the next round since there is no next round in the gun. Your cases will hold the bullet just fine and give consistent results, at least based on my experience. You may ask others if you wish to confirm this information. It also saves case trimming for the first several firings (unless your are running hot loads).
Best of luck and happy shooting.

[DonL100]

lastchanc54, you are absolutely correct about the crimp on the 357 Herrett. It was my mistake and is what caused part of the problem in the first place. The slight bulge at the case neck caused by the crimping did not allow the round to chamber completely. Also, the lube on the ejector ran on to the barrel lug causing the action to snap open on discharge. I never had had an action open on discharge until I put a drop of lube on the ejector. After thorougly cleaning the action and not crimping the bullet I have had no problem. Thanks, DonL