Bolts for 3" Ordnance rifle.

[subdjoe]

I know that this has likely been brought up before, but I can't seem to find it.  I am looking for an affordable way to make bolts for a 3" rifle.  I've contemplated having a mould made to cast what amounts to a 2.9" minie ball.  I have also considered casting lead shot and patching it with canvas.  And there is the ever popular can filled with cement (not concrete) but I can;t figure out how to get that to engage the rifeling. 

Can any of you point me in the right direction?

[RocklockI]

Welcome aboard ! I realize you said "Rifle" is it really rifled ?

rocklock

ETA Nevermind you did say "..to engage rifling..." sorry .

Cannonmn just had an interesting post on an aluminum "Hochkiss" expanding bolt a couple days ago .

[cannonmn]

A cheap one that works quite well is the Trash Can model.  It is like the old Sheridan Rifle pellets.  The molds are fairly easy to make if you have access to a lathe.  When I first tried them I was using cardboard tubes for the outside of the mold, but the smoke from the toasting cardboard really stinks, so metal is a lot better.

[subdjoe]

Welcome aboard ! I realize you said "Rifle" is it really rifled ?

rocklock

ETA Nevermind you did say "..to engage rifling..." sorry .

Cannonmn just had an interesting post on an aluminum "Hochkiss" expanding bolt a couple days ago .

Gottchya!  I've had people looking down the bore asking if it is rifled.  Go figure.  Thanks, I'll see if I can find that, but using Al might be beyond my ability at the moment. I'm assuming they are machined rather than cast.

[subdjoe]

A cheap one that works quite well is the Trash Can model.  It is like the old Sheridan Rifle pellets.  The molds are fairly easy to make if you have access to a lathe.  When I first tried them I was using cardboard tubes for the outside of the mold, but the smoke from the toasting cardboard really stinks, so metal is a lot better.

OK, I remember those Sheridan pellets.  What did you use for the cavity in the casting?  How did you keep it centered?  I would imagine that concentricity could be a problem. 

Hmmm....would the high temperature silicone work?  I have some moulds for casting miniatures that are a black rubber of some sort. I think it is silicone. something else to investigate.

[Cat Whisperer]

I saw the winning target from a N-SSA match some 15 or so years ago in a gun shop in Petersburg, VA.  (This was an hour before the tornado tore up the town.)

Crisp clean 3" holes.

The 'bullets' were cylindrical, lead and hollow based.  The cavity was also cylindrical, skirt walls about 3/8" thick.  As above, the mould would be simple to make - 3 parts: two identical sides and a plug for the cavity.

[subdjoe]

Thanks Cat.  That sounds about like what Cannonmn was suggesting.  A hollow based wadcutter.  And thanks for giving some dimentions, I wasn't sure how thick to make the walls of the skirt. 

This is sounding more and more doable for me.  I don't have access to a machine shop, so I have to work on the cheap.  Maybe some pipe or tubeing with the proper ID, get a cylinder hone and polish the inside, and a mandrel with some sort of jig to keep it centered.   Maybe have a machinist put a slight taper on that so it is easier to remove. 

3" schedule 80 steel pipe has an ID of 2.9 inches.  My bore, land to land, is 2.97 near as I can make out (odd number of gooves makes it a little harder to mic it), and groove to groove is about 3.1 inches.  Should work. 

Dimensions. Overall length of about 6 inches (two calibers) sound about right?  With a solid nose about two inches, and then 4 inches of skirt. That should weigh about 8 to 10 pounds. I can experiment and get the weight adjusted to what works best by changing the length of the skirt a bit.

At the only live fire we have been to we had tried soda cans partially filled with concrete (I told the guy cement, but he went cheaper and got a bag of concrete mix), cut the tops off so that we had a flange of the can to try to catch the rifling.  We used a 6 oz. charge of Fg.   From what we found, it looked like the Al melted away, although some of them showed evidence that the front part had expanded and caught the rifling. We had also tried making a sabot of foil.  That met with mixed results.  But, overall I was happy.  First time trying it, my lateral spread at 200 yards was about 5 feet judging from the marks on the ground.  And obviously my elevation needed some help.  I did manage to get a few onto the target, though.  And we all had fun. 


Cat, what the heck is the "Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery"?  I can hear it now "Interesting nose, bright, sparky, a hint of sulfur and a wiff of grape"  "The flavor explodes on the tongue, then lingers on the pallet with subltle undertones of burned powder and gun greas"

[Double D]

Cat, what the heck is the "Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery"?  I can hear it now "Interesting nose, bright, sparky, a hint of sulfur and a wiff of grape"  "The flavor explodes on the tongue, then lingers on the pallet with subltle undertones of burned powder and gun greas"

Groan.

[cannonmn]

Here are some photos I took a couple of years ago when we were shooting a rifled British 3-pounder gun.  You can see that some of the projectiles blew out.  I don't think we made them thick enough in the front.  If I use that pattern any more I think I'll grease the projectiles so they'll have less resistance going out of the bore and be less likely to blow through.

[subdjoe]

Wow, great pictures, Cannonmn.  Thanks.  Do you remember roughly what those weighed? 

Wouldn't the blow outs maybe be from a too thin wall?  Did you have to worm out the skirts of the ones that blew out? 

I know, so many questions.

[cannonmn]

I think with this gun we only had one stick in the bore and have to be retrieved, yes the front wall was too thin but worked most of the time anyway.  The projectiles were quite accurate, spun up every time.  As I recall they weighed about 5 lbs. each.  They were right about 3 in. diameter, the gun's bore is 3.1 inches land-to-land.

Here's our you-tube video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhER53Mb_T4

[Cat Whisperer]

...
Cat, what the heck is the "Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery"?  I can hear it now "Interesting nose, bright, sparky, a hint of sulfur and a wiff of grape"  "The flavor explodes on the tongue, then lingers on the pallet with subltle undertones of burned powder and gun grease"

Ahhhh the bouquet!  The stuff I brew is bottled under the label of 'Chateau Barracks'.  Your description is quite accurate, as is DD's reflection of most folks response to tasting it.

Reflecting on the projo - the ones that I saw were about 3" diameter and 3" long !  Thicker at the front than the skirts - which were likely to be closer to 1/4" than 3/8"  -  it's been a looong time since I saw them.  I remember distinctly that they did NOT tip - the holes in the target were circular.