Author Topic: 700 Remington Quality  (Read 36622 times)

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2008, 02:32:34 PM »
... I keep hearing the bolt handle & extractor rumors but nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof.  ...

Here's a link with pics of a Remington with theh bolt handle broken off.  Granted its a 514, but its still a Remington.  You will have to register with the site to see the pics.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=299035

Here's a link to a thread regarding an 18-month old ADL:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78323

And more...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/1f8a9f96667fe479
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/3a37f69c13707f99
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/f13b70761147702f
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=278892

Finding these only took a few seconds and there are many more.  I guess they are all liars, expecialy the one with the pics...
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2008, 02:34:36 PM »
... I keep hearing the bolt handle & extractor rumors but nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof.  ...

Here's a link with pics of a Remington with theh bolt handle broken off.  Granted its a 514, but its still a Remington.  You will have to register with the site to see the pics.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=299035

Here's a link to a thread regarding an 18-month old ADL:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78323

And more...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/1f8a9f96667fe479
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/3a37f69c13707f99
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/f13b70761147702f
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=278892

Finding these only took a few seconds and there are many more.  I guess they are all liars, expecialy the one with the pics...


Could be....we have no way of knowing what actually happened.  Even the pictures prove nothing.

Antique 514s & 788s might have problems

Don't ever do the Sako-Style extractor mod, it's dangerous.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 03:22:37 PM »
The 788 isn't an antique gun by any means.  No more so than a 721 or 725.

Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2008, 03:33:25 PM »
They haven't made 788s in 25 years.  The 721s & 725s have been out of production about 45 years.  They are antiques.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2008, 05:11:51 PM »
My 788 is a tack driver that I will put up against newer more expensive sporter rifles.  Not bad for an antique rifle. Sort of like it's owner.  ;)

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2008, 05:56:56 PM »

Could be....we have no way of knowing what actually happened.  Even the pictures prove nothing.

Antique 514s & 788s might have problems

Don't ever do the Sako-Style extractor mod, it's dangerous.

One was an 18 month old M700 ADL with a broken bolt handle, another was an M700 Sendero with a broken extractor.  There are many more reports where those came from.

You can believe everyone who reports a broken bolt handle to be a liar if you choose.  It's a head-in-the-sand approach to reality, but it seems to be your way.

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2008, 06:05:51 PM »
Could be....we have no way of knowing what actually happened.  Even the pictures prove nothing.

Here's a link to four more liars who claim they had a bolt handle come off their Remington.  One mentions that his rifle went "Bang" when he slipped the safety off.  Remington got sued over that issue (although not, apparently, that particular instance) as they knew it was a problem.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f22/remington-m-700-bolt-handle-separation-falling-off-10031/
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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2008, 06:54:37 PM »
I am a huge Remington 700 fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D I have owned at least 5 700's over the last few years and never had a problem with any. They all shot under moa and one that shot 1/4 to 3/8" groups at 100 yards. You have to realize all gun makers will have lemons. You hear about the few that have had problems but for every one with a problem there are thousands more with out any problems. Dale
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Offline roper

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2008, 12:24:28 AM »
My oldest Rem is a 722 in 222mag and the newest is 2yrs old was a Wally World ADL 30-06 that was restocked,action blueprinted and new Lilja barrel also has a new trigger and BDL floor plate.  Since 1965 I've owned lots of Rem,Sako,Ruger and afew Win and I've never has a problem with a Rem bolt  or extactor.  I did have some problems with a Sako type extractor on a Rem bolt that a gunsmith put on  I finally ordered a new bolt from Pacific with his Sako extractor.

I've heard of Rem bolt handles on the 700 coming off but never seen one and  I've watch some inexperience guys tuning a Rem trigger too light and you can have saftey problem doing that.   One guy in our gun club is a tactial shooter and he had his 700 bolt handle drilled and tapped for set screws because he heard about the Rem bolt handle problems.  I guess if I was real worried I could have that done but I'm not.


Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2008, 01:55:25 AM »
Quote
I've heard of Rem bolt handles on the 700 coming off but never seen one

I wish I had a dollar for evey time I've heard or read this quote.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2008, 03:41:49 AM »

I've heard of Rem bolt handles on the 700 coming off but never seen one and  I've watch some inexperience guys tuning a Rem trigger too light and you can have saftey problem doing that.   

Roper -

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Remington M700's are bad rifles.  But they have not been without problems, either.  Remington knew they had a safety problem early on with the M700 and it took them decades to change it.  First thing I did when I got my first Remington (a 1975 .308 M700 acquired in 2005) was to send it back to Remington for the free safety upgrade.

Swampman is so brand loyal he is blinded to reality.  Some Remingtons are much better than others.  The M700 is still the top of the line and even in that basic model Remington offers dramatically different levels of finish.  The M710's and M770's accurate as they may be, are pretty much throw-aways in my opinion, and much inferior to Stevens and Savage low cost models.  Every 798 and 799 rifle I've handled felt like it had sand in the action.

My last rifle purchase was another Remington M700 a few months ago so it s not like I have a thing against Remington.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2008, 05:31:33 AM »
There never was a safety issue with the rifles.  People just don't know how to properly handle a firearm.  That was the only safety issue that ever existed.

This is no different than the old model single action Rugers.  Changes were made so dough heads would be less likely to kill themselves or somebody else.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline roper

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2008, 10:11:34 AM »
There never was a safety issue with the rifles.  People just don't know how to properly handle a firearm.  That was the only safety issue that ever existed.

This is no different than the old model single action Rugers.  Changes were made so dough heads would be less likely to kill themselves or somebody else.

As relates to item above: NOTE: THIS OFFER IS VALID ONLY THROUGH DECEMBER 31, 2002 2003. (Changed January 2003.) Remington offers modifications for some bolt-action rifles -- Remington Arms Company has announced a "safety modification program" to address a problem in bolt-action centerfire rifles manufactured prior to March 1982, in the wake of the shooting death of 9-year-old Gus Barber of Manhattan, Montana. He died when his mother, Barbara, released the safety on her Remington 700 to unload the gun. The modification will remove the bolt-lock mechanism from the rifle, which was not used on guns manufactured after 1982. This mechanism prevented rifles from being unloaded unless the manual safety is placed in the "F" or "Off" or "Fire" position. After the modification, rifles can be unloaded when they are in the "Safe" position. Remington will do the work for $20 plus shipping and handling. Guns will be returned with a $20 rebate coupon good toward the purchase of Remington brand safety products. Affected by the modification program are: Model 700, 600, 660, 40-X (made before March 1982), 721 and 722 rifles as well as the XP-100 pistol (made before February 1975). For further information visit Remington's website or call toll-free to 877-387-6691 with the serial number of your [Comment: I guess this is not a "recall" so Remington sees fit to charge users for the "safety modification." I do not feel a $20 product-limited rebate coupon is tantamount to refunding the cost. What this sounds like, to me, is Remington's method for providing a defense against future lawsuits by claiming the plaintiff did not take advantage of this offer. I would recommend, however, you have the modification performed if you own one or more of the affected models. In today's legal climate, you might find yourself held "negligent" by failing to do so. Matter-of-fact, Remington's "Important Safety Message" states, "If you own one of these rifles and want to participate in this safety program...." [Emphasis mine] That seems to infer the obligation is yours and, if the firearm is, in future, unsafe, the fault is yours. -- Ed]


Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2008, 10:31:14 AM »
Yep a gun that works exactly the way it should is dangerous if you point it in the wrong direction.  Don't point it at something you don't want a hole in.  Seems simple enough.  If I had one like that, I wouldn't let Remington "fix" it because there's nothing wrong with it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline 243dave

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2008, 01:36:23 PM »
Swampman, Don't be arrogant and let your ignorance show !! Roper told about a 9yr old boy not a household pet. The gun may not have been pointed in his direction there are instances of ricochet and such, we don't know the whole story. I have a model 700 made in 1970(my favorite rifle) and have elected not to send it in, maybe I should. But when these rifles were made it should have had a safety that you can leave on when you load and unload it, period ! Myself I like the 700's but I'm not loyal too one brand of rifle. My last purchase was a savage 10 predator and it shoots under half moa with cheap white box winchester ammo.   Dave

Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2008, 01:56:53 PM »
Quote
when these rifles were made it should have had a safety that you can leave on when you load and unload it

For the life of me, I don't see why.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2008, 02:00:06 PM »
Yep a gun that works exactly the way it should is dangerous if you point it in the wrong direction.  Don't point it at something you don't want a hole in.  Seems simple enough.  If I had one like that, I wouldn't let Remington "fix" it because there's nothing wrong with it.

Remington's own internal papers, presented at the trial, indicated that as many as 1% of all M700's that left the factory were subject to firing when the safety was released.  Their numbers came to around 20,000 rifles at risk when they left the factory.

Blame it on the users if you want to, and there are no doubt people who have improperly adjusted their triggers.  Nevertheless, Remington admited it was a factory problem as well. 
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2008, 02:06:28 PM »
"The modification will remove the bolt-lock mechanism from the rifle"

Dumbest thing they ever did.

This is exactly like the transfer bar on a New Model Ruger Single Action revolver.  It's a corrective action for a problem that didn't exist.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2008, 04:06:07 PM »
Wow! I've started a few new topics and on most there were few or no replies. This one is sure different. I had a .17 Remington (Model 700). It showed severe throat erosion at around 900 for both the original and second barrel, which was replaced by the factory. The original barrel was replaced because of a safety recall from Remington. Both barrels were good for about 1/2 MOA for 3-shot groups if there was no wind. There was a problem with the chamber of the second barrel. The neck in the chamber was too short and factory cartridges would not chamber in it. Since I reload that was not really a problem. I just trimmed the necks a shorter than regular specs for the cartridge and everything was fine. However, for a non-reloader this would have been a big problem. A buddy's Model 788 in .22-250 had a problem as its chamber had a tight neck. It worked out OK in the end as he found a brand of brass with thinner necks. Maybe that was a brass problem instead of a chamber problem. I fire lapped the barrel and bedded the stock of my son-in-law's .270 (model 700) and it shoots great. It was not shot before this work. I did not shoot the gun I was describing at the range. I don't know if the shooter was a good shot or a lousy shot. But he said claimed the accuracy was about 8-inch groups at 200 yards by the size of the circle he made with his hands. The last 3 shots from my 7 MM STW Model 700 made a 3-1/2 ich group at 425 yards. It is not a stock Model 700 as it has a heavy Shilen barrel and a Brown-Precision fiberglass stock. Anyway, I am not anti-Remington, but thought it was rather strange that a Model 700 would be out of line whether the problem was the bolt face as I had thought or an eliptical chamber that I had not thought of.

Offline weasel

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2008, 05:20:46 PM »
Personally inspected a 788 & a 700 with broken bolts, the 788 came apart when the owner pulled hard to try to eject a stuck case and the 700 broke when the owner fell in some rocks. Looks to me like the handles are soldered on.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2008, 05:36:01 PM »
Personally inspected a 788 & a 700 with broken bolts, the 788 came apart when the owner pulled hard to try to eject a stuck case and the 700 broke when the owner fell in some rocks. Looks to me like the handles are soldered on.

They are brazed or silver-soldered on, neither of which is as strong as welded joins or single-piece bolts.  When you make as may rifles as Remington does the chances of an occasional bad join are pretty high.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2008, 05:44:18 PM »
"The modification will remove the bolt-lock mechanism from the rifle"

Dumbest thing they ever did.

This is exactly like the transfer bar on a New Model Ruger Single Action revolver.  It's a corrective action for a problem that didn't exist.

Its a corrective action for which Remington admitted there was a problem affecting up to 1% of the M700 rifles they shipped.  Bury your head a little deeper in the sand and I'll bet you could see China.


Not everyone thinks removing the bolt lock was a dumb thing to do.  I don't hunt dangerous game and prefer to be able to open the bolt and clear the chamber with the safety engaged.  A three-position safety, like my Ruger MKII and Savage rifles have, would be even better.
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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2008, 02:07:27 PM »
They haven't made 788s in 25 years.  The 721s & 725s have been out of production about 45 years.  They are antiques.

The model 700 was introduced in 1962.  That would make it 46 years old.   :o  That would mean that the Remington 700 rifles rifles that are more than 25 years old (if the 788 is antique because they quit making them 25 years ago) are also antiques.   :-*  So your basis of this statement is that any firearm made before 1983 is an antique, including all Remington 700 rifles.   ::) ::) ::)

Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2008, 02:28:42 PM »
Old guns that have been subjected to neophytes beating the bolt open with a hammer, may break.  If a Remington can be broken, the other brands don't have a chance.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline 243dave

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2008, 03:36:04 PM »
Check this out.  http://drinnonlaw.com/Texas-Defective-Remington700.jsp  A bit of reading but worth a peep.  Dave

Offline poncaguy

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2008, 03:59:46 PM »
I had a 788 bolt handle snap off when I judo chopped it trying to extract a case back in the 60's. Qwned 2, a 6mm and a 22-250, sold them both. Found a 6mm in a pawn shop last year, couldn't get my check book  out fast enough! They are really accurate rifles, as were the 700 270's I used to own. My Savages, my new Tikka and Marlin XL7 are very accurate rifles, I wish my Ruger 77 260 was as accurate.

Offline roper

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2008, 08:34:25 PM »
Quote
One guy at our gun club just got a new SS SPS 257 Wby and he was complaining that he couldn't touch the lands go figure.


That seems rather doubtful since Remington doesn't make such a rifle. They list only two rifles chambered to the .257 Whby. Magnum. One is the CDL SF and the other is the LSS Limited Edition to be made only this year. I have one on order that should arrive either today or Monday. Mine of course will be the LSS Limited with the Gray Laminated stock and SS metal. The SPS just isn't shown as available in that chambering.

I found this on 24hr Campfire

I took the new SPS 257 Roy to the range today for it's first shoot. After sight-in with 100 gr sp Weatherby factory ammo it shot 2 three shot groups into .75 inches at 100 yds. Also got one group at 1.5 inches but that was me.
Only thing is the trigger is to heavy, I'm guessing about 5 or 6 pounds. Very crisp, no creep, nice feel.
So does anybody know what screw to adjust on the new REmington triger?

Thanks,
Greg

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2008, 02:48:53 AM »
Old guns that have been subjected to neophytes beating the bolt open with a hammer, may break.  System-Independent Data Format

Its not just old guns that have had the handle come off or neophytes that have had it happen.  Its not a common occurence but for those it have had it happenen it is too common.

Quote
If a Remington can be broken, the other brands don't have a chance.

I guess you're contending that a brazed on handle like Remington uses is stronger than a welded handle or a one-piece bolt? 

If so you're one of those people that don't let facts get in the way of your opinions - the welded and one-piece units are much stronger.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2008, 02:52:15 AM »
I'm contending that a Remington is the best......period!

If you are willing to settle for less, then please do.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline roper

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2008, 04:09:38 AM »

I guess you're contending that a brazed on handle like Remington uses is stronger than a welded handle or a one-piece bolt? 

If so you're one of those people that don't let facts get in the way of your opinions - the welded and one-piece units are much stronger.
[/quote]

I don't mean to take side but CH most bolt handles are Silver Solder same as they do sights etc.  Some early Rem had the bolt handles pressed then Silver Soldered.  As to which is better alot of gunsmith charge the same to (TIG)weld or solder a bolt myself I just as soon have a gunsmith who knows how to Silver Solder vs weld.  You might want to read this CH
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq_brazing_versus_soldering.php