Author Topic: 700 Remington Quality  (Read 36626 times)

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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #240 on: January 28, 2009, 05:19:09 AM »
But it won't be as good as the Model 700 Remington.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #241 on: January 28, 2009, 11:13:55 AM »
I am amazed that this thread is still active. Talk about beating a dead horse.  ;D

Offline deerman12

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #242 on: January 30, 2009, 05:40:03 AM »
The main problem I have had with remingtons is I can't have as many as I would like too! :)  I love them and have never had a bad one.

Offline cruiser394

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #243 on: February 01, 2009, 07:03:59 PM »
BBW,

Good post. Thanks for sharing. Happy to hear about your good experiences; sorry to hear about the bad ones.

The bolt handle popping off is inexcusable, especially after Swampman has assured us that it could never happen to a Remington. ;)

Actually, what he would say is that Remingtons are designed that way. ;D  Then he would deny (again) that there is a problem and say they are the best rifles in the world.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #244 on: February 02, 2009, 03:21:31 AM »
BBW,

Good post. Thanks for sharing. Happy to hear about your good experiences; sorry to hear about the bad ones.

The bolt handle popping off is inexcusable, especially after Swampman has assured us that it could never happen to a Remington. ;)

Actually, what he would say is that Remingtons are designed that way. ;D  Then he would deny (again) that there is a problem and say they are the best rifles in the world.

He is so deep in denial I expect he would simply deny that the handles come off at all. 
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Tunaman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #245 on: February 02, 2009, 06:49:39 AM »
I am amazed that this thread is still active. Talk about beating a dead horse.  ;D

1+ on that.

Offline DKA

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #246 on: February 02, 2009, 03:58:38 PM »
Have a 700 SPS in .243, 25 06, 7mm 08, and 270, and all are tack drivers. Bought an A Bolt from a guy, to help him out of a crunch and traded it in 3 months, for the 270. don't know what all of the bickering is about.
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Offline Remmy

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #247 on: February 04, 2009, 12:49:07 PM »
After a few simple changes to my M700 30-06 I wouldn't sell or trade, it does shoot. Nothing better then seeing deer hooves kicking up in the air through a scope after a shower of hair.

Offline eye shot

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #248 on: February 12, 2009, 02:48:18 PM »
I have a 1971 .17 Rem. BDL and it will still shoot the primer out of a 12ga. hull on a nail at 100yds. after all these years. I've had alot of offers over the years and it's still mine! I also have a .308 Savage that shoots a 2 1/2" group at  100yds. Gee my 1100 Rem. slug gun will do better.
RIP Mike. Died on July 14th, around 2am, with his family at his side, he went peacefully to be with god.

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #249 on: February 15, 2009, 07:34:20 AM »
I have a 1971 .17 Rem. BDL and it will still shoot the primer out of a 12ga. hull on a nail at 100yds. after all these years. I've had alot of offers over the years and it's still mine! I also have a .308 Savage that shoots a 2 1/2" group at  100yds. Gee my 1100 Rem. slug gun will do better.

Your samples of one are not worth much.  My Savage .30-06 outshoots my Remington M700 .30-06.  For that matter, so does my Ruger .30-06.

Savage rifles are known for their out-of-the-box accuracy but it is always possible to get a rifle with sub-standard accuracy, regardless of the manufacturer.  It may also be you just haven't found the right load for the Savage.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline john keyes

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #250 on: February 15, 2009, 08:48:53 AM »
okay I have two 700's, both MTN LSS in 7mm-08 and .260.
both shoot under an inch, no mods to the gun, both pawn shop scopes one is a widefield 4x and the other weaver classic 600 (6x)

I also have a M77 MarkII .30-06.
It also shoots under an inch.

all of the above with reloads, data selected arbitrarily, not loads worked up or down, just in the middle of the power range.

I much prefer the safety configuration on the MkII.  Also, the ring/base configuration of the Ruger is win.
Overall, the entire rifle is very nice/pretty while also quite rugged.
Ruger presented the PERFECT incarnation/modification/interpretation of the mauser action.  It does not get better.

This is pure speculation but I would imagine if you threw both a 700 and MkII action in a >1000degC furnace the 700 would disappear much quicker.
The 700's just have a lighter/thinner feel to them.

I'm gassing right now for a pawn shop MarkII with Leupold 3x9 (I HATE VARIABLE POWER SCOPES!) .270 that the stock looks oil finished....but yet that way from the factory.   ???

with all that being said, I love my two remingtons.
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #251 on: February 15, 2009, 09:09:13 AM »
...
I much prefer the safety configuration on the MkII.  Also, the ring/base configuration of the Ruger is win.
Overall, the entire rifle is very nice/pretty while also quite rugged.

+1. 

Quote
Ruger presented the PERFECT incarnation/modification/interpretation of the mauser action.  It does not get better.

Have to agree there, too.  Guess that's why I have more Rugers than anything else.  And more Rugers than all the other turn-bolts put together.

Quote
...
with all that being said, I love my two remingtons.

As do I, imperfect as they are.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Augustis

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #252 on: May 07, 2009, 04:59:46 AM »
I spent a lot of time contributing to this topic, and with that I am giving thread a bump.

Aug ><>

Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #253 on: May 07, 2009, 06:06:18 AM »
It still boils down to the fact that you just can't beat a Remington.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #254 on: May 09, 2009, 04:22:23 AM »
It still boils down to the fact that you just can't beat a Remington.

As usual, wrong.  It is very possible to beat a Remington.  Every non-Remington rifle in my safe has already done exactly that when it came time to lay down my money.  That's one reason the Remington's are a small minority.

I will admit my .308 Win M700 BDL is the classiest looking rifle in the safe, but the M70 Special Purpose Wood in .30-06 is nothing fancy at all.  No matter, looks add nothing to function nor detract from it. 

From a pure value perspective, I prefer the Rugers.  Built in scope mounts that are not attached by itty-bitty screws, one piece bolts with handles that don't come off and generally more pleasing lines are just three reasons.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #255 on: May 09, 2009, 04:55:35 AM »
Quote
That's one reason the Remington's are a small minority.

Did you miss the fact that the Remington 700 is the best selling bolt action hunting rifle in the world?

Let's stick to the facts.  Personal bias doesn't tell us much.

Ruger's built in scope mounts are very limiting & unattractive.

"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline john keyes

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #256 on: May 09, 2009, 10:07:56 AM »
Swampman answer this:

-which barrel, ruger or remington will last longer under sustained firing with no cool down
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #257 on: May 09, 2009, 11:31:19 AM »
The Remington because it's actually machined steel from a barrel blank, & thicker.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline 700xcr

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #258 on: May 09, 2009, 01:31:50 PM »
It still boils down to the fact that you just can't beat a Remington.

As usual, wrong.  It is very possible to beat a Remington. That's one reason the Remington's are a small minority. ::) I bag different on that statement. Look at all the custom guns and long range guns based on Remington 700 action.

Nothing like a Remington model 700xcr

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #259 on: May 09, 2009, 06:09:40 PM »
Quote
That's one reason the Remington's are a small minority.

Did you miss the fact that the Remington 700 is the best selling bolt action hunting rifle in the world?

I have two Remington M700’s in my safe – a .308 Win and a .30-06.  The “small minority” comment was in reference to the rifles I own.    What the rest of the world does is of little or no concern to me. 

Quote
Let's stick to the facts.  Personal bias doesn't tell us much.

One fact is that the most popular product is not necessarily the best.  Another fact is that “best” is very subjective and varies from person to person.  If Remington M700’s are the “best” in your mind, that’s fine.  But that only makes them “best” for you.  Everyone else has to decide for themselves.  I’ve decided for myself and Remington isn’t it.

Quote
Ruger's built in scope mounts are very limiting & unattractive.

As you say, let’s stick to the facts.  There is nothing “limiting” about the Ruger scope mounts for my applications.  In fact, I have found them to be extremely functional, the mounting system is as strong a system as you will find, and Ruger provides rings with every rifle – no need to buy bases and rings after buying the rifle.

Further, “unattractive” is a personal judgment call, not a “fact”.  You don’t like the looks of the Ruger scope mounting system so don’t buy a Ruger.  I DO like the looks (read “I find them attractive” – and much more so than bases held on by itty-bitty screws).
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #260 on: May 09, 2009, 06:17:31 PM »
As usual, wrong.  It is very possible to beat a Remington. That's one reason the Remington's are a small minority.
::) I bag different on that statement. Look at all the custom guns and long range guns based on Remington 700 action.

700xcr -

My comment was concerning the rifles in my safe, where Remingtons ARE a small minority.  I am well aware they are popular with the general public, but what the general public does doesn't concern me much in general and even less so when it comes to firearms.  Nor am I concerned with what the long range shooters are using.

My first custom is in progress and its being built on an Interarms Mark X Mauser action.  It will be chambered for 6.5mm-06AI, not a particularly popular cartridge, and I couldn't care less what others think about the rifle or cartridge one way or another.  I'm not building it for anyone but me.  It's not being built on a Remington action for a number of reasons, but in the end its because Remington M700's actions weren't the "best" for my purposes.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #261 on: May 10, 2009, 01:08:06 AM »
I would have thought accuracy would have been important in a 6.5mm-06AI rifle.  The Mauser is fine for a close up big game rifle.  I'm working on one right now.  It will never be as accurate as a Remington 700.

It's not a popular cartridge for good reasons.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline mjbgalt

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #262 on: May 10, 2009, 01:58:59 AM »
the 6.5-06 Ackley is not popular because most people are sheep and buy whatever is at walmart for cheap.

the mauser, with a modern trigger and barrel, can shoot just as accurately as any other rifle can.

there is nothing mystical about a remington 700. i have owned howa, weatherby, remington, savage, mauser, ruger, etc. none were more accurate on average than the others.

i personally choose what fits my needs at the time the best. i own a custom mauser and a weatherby vanguard. both will go well under an inch with my handloads.

if remingtons work well for you, great, but saying they're the best no matter what the facts say, makes you look silly and doesn't represent them well at all. if a rifle is good, it doesn't need someone to tell us every day 50 times how good it is. it just IS.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #263 on: May 10, 2009, 02:08:15 AM »
Silly is a matter of opinion.  Spending 1000+ bucks to build a rifle that's amost as good as a $350.00 Remington 700 from Walmart seems silly.  Chambering a cartridge that's almost as good as the .270 or .30-06 for which you cannot buy ammo seems questionable too.

In the end you have a rifle with little resale value, that shoots almost as good as a cheap .270.

Us sheep will just have to spend our extra cash on other stuff I suppose.

The question was about Remington 700 quality.  They can't be beat.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline mjbgalt

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #264 on: May 10, 2009, 02:56:12 AM »
i didn't call YOU a sheep, just stating that if all walmart had was 6.5-06, that would sell like crazy. it's a matter of what's available.

i agree, the cartridge isn't that much different than others, and the rifle admittedly won't be much better than the remington. but if that's what he wants, then great.

same for you, if that's what you want, great.

i just see no difference, no big advantage either way. and even though i like the mausers better, i will not recommend them EVERY time for EVERY use in EVERY instance. that would be silly.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline Augustis

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #265 on: May 10, 2009, 05:52:57 AM »
I would have thought accuracy would have been important in a 6.5mm-06AI rifle.  The Mauser is fine for a close up big game rifle.  I'm working on one right now.  It will never be as accurate as a Remington 700.

It's not a popular cartridge for good reasons.

If a Mauser will never be as accurate as a Remington, I must question then if it due to the fact you are working on it...

If you re-read some of my posts, you may note, I for the most part shoot Remington and Mauser exclusively (its a personal choice thing). Further note all of my Remington or Mauser's are customized to some degree, either from the ground up, or have various enhancements made to address their functional short falls for speciality target engagement applications. My .308 Mauser is approaching 4500 rounds through the tube, and this platform is planned and expected to complete YET another precision rifle certification this year. I full well expect to shoot another 1400 rounds though this platform by the end of August as I get back on top of my game to allow do my part. This old rifle platform still produces a 5 shot group of .5 MOA!

As to some of your other more outrageous comments... maybe you should step back and look at yourself as others may envision you based off of your written opinions, unless it is your intent to be offensive and disruptive to those that are interested in learning, or discussing functional issues related to various arms and related techniques to employ them effectively in their given application capacities.

Sorry, but I for one believe it is sad thing what you have done to your own creditability with regard to this thread, as it has been said everyone has a price... or that love is blind. I am not sure where you fall in this area???  I further have to wonder if you would make such outrageous claims in person, in a room full of people discussing the same important issues, or that IF it is just the Internet that makes you brave?

 Aug ><>

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #266 on: May 10, 2009, 07:44:07 AM »
Silly is a matter of opinion.  Spending 1000+ bucks to build a rifle that's amost as good as a $350.00 Remington 700 from Walmart seems silly.  Chambering a cartridge that's almost as good as the .270 or .30-06 for which you cannot buy ammo seems questionable too.

In the end you have a rifle with little resale value, that shoots almost as good as a cheap .270.

Us sheep will just have to spend our extra cash on other stuff I suppose.

The question was about Remington 700 quality.  They can't be beat.

In a previous post you suggested we stick to the facts, yet you refuse to do so.  Instead you repeatedly offer your  opinions and state them as if they were “facts”.

“Silly” is indeed a matter of opinion.  You got that one right.  “Silly” is an objective determination and as such is a determination every person must make for themselves.  The determination of “best” is also something everyone must make for themselves and as a result varies from person to person, a fact you seem unable to admit even though I’m sure you understand it.  Although I can’t prove it, I believe you to be either immature, insecure, stupid, ignorant or dishonest – and perhaps all five.  That belief is also a personal determination and others are free to come to different conclusions.

In my opinion, your claim that my 6.5mm-06AI will be “amost as good as a $350.00 Remington 700 from Wal-Mart” (your typo, not mine, I just cut and pasted) is foolish in the extreme.  First, it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a Remington M700 for $350 at Wal-Mart.  If you find one at that price I suggest you buy one or two.  The cheapest I’ve seen M700’s go for lately is $450 and up.  Mostly up.  Second, the rifle will be trued up with the bolt lugs lapped.  The barrel will be a 24” custom, stainless, fluted, match-grade, hand-lapped Kreiger in light or medium varmint contour.  The stock will be a pepper laminate, the action will be bedded and the barrel floated.  The action will be an Interarms Mark X, one of the better commercial Mauser actions, with a Timney trigger.  The bolt handle is welded on so, unlike a Remington M700, I won’t give a second thought to the possibility it might break off.  The bolt’s firing pin will be replaced with a Tubb SpeedLock kit which will reduce lock time to approximately that of the M700, although the M700 will still be a bit faster.  Third, I’m not building a rifle to suit your tastes, I’m building to suit mine – and I’ve never seen a $350 Remington M700 that comes close to meeting what I want.

As to the chambering, I already have three .30-06’s (one in a Remington M700 which refuses to shoot as well as my Ruger or Savage rifles in .30-06).  Contrary to your claim that the 6.5xx-06AI is “almost as good as the .270 or .30-06”, neither the .270 Win nor .30-06 can shoot as flat or provide the same retained energy or velocity at longer ranges (800 yards and beyond) and both add more recoil in attempting to do so.  There is a reason the 6.5’s are so popular with the long range shooters.

As to not being able to buy commercial ammo, I have two comments.  The first is that 6.5mm-06 ammo IS available and will shoot just fine in the AI version, albeit with some velocity loss.  The second is that the availability of commercial ammo is of no concern to me for this project.  As a handloader I very rarely shoot commercial ammo except in my .22’s and occasionally in my handguns .  When I buy a new rifle I often buy a box of factory ammo as well, but only because I want to shoot it right away.  Once I develop handloads for a rifle they usually never see factory ammo again.  As to building ammo for the 6.5mm-06AI, running .25-06 brass through a sizer die provides an inexpensive source for brass.  Properly headstamped brass is available and .270 Win, .280 Rem and even .30-06 brass can be used to form 6.5mm-06 brass.  In terms of bullet, the 6.5mm is blessed with a good selection of high quality, high BC bullets like the Scirocco II  (.571) for hunting and Berger VLD’s for targets (130g @ .552 and 140g @ .618).  The .270 Win is not nearly so well blessed and the .30-06 bullets can’t match the 6.5mm BCs without going very heavy (180g Scirocco II @ .520 and 210g Berger VLD @ .617).

Resale value will be just fine as there are many shooters who understand the 6.5mm caliber and its capabilities much better than you.  Regardless, since 1982 I’ve sold exactly two rifles - one with a shot-out barrel and the other a beat-up WWII Mauser I picked up and resold without shooting.  I don’t expect the issue of resale value will be an issue in my lifetime.    As to shooting, the proof will be in the pudding.  It won’t take all that much to shoot better than the two Remington M700s in .30-06 that I’ve spent time with , both new from the factory and both made since 2005.

You “sheep” can spend your money on whatever you like.

Nothing wrong with Remington M700’s if you like bolt handles that fall off or extractors, ejectors and their springs that break, or scope or rear rifle sights that often have to be removed to add a scope.  For durability and reliability, I’ll take a good commercial Mauser action or derivative like a Ruger.  For a good, inexpensive shooter, I’ll go with Savage or even a Stevens.  For overall value in a mass produced rifle I’ll take a Ruger.  But those are personal determinations.  Remington M700’s are easy to beat, it just depends on what you want in a rifle.  



Coyote Hunter
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #267 on: May 10, 2009, 09:25:58 AM »
Most of your post is a myth.  That's ok by me.  I'll stick with the facts.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #268 on: May 10, 2009, 01:41:11 PM »
Most of your post is a myth.  That's ok by me.  I'll stick with the facts.

Really.  Which parts would that be?
Coyote Hunter
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Offline Swampman

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Re: 700 Remington Quality
« Reply #269 on: May 10, 2009, 01:46:08 PM »
Quote
Nothing wrong with Remington M700’s

correct!

All the rest is a myth.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~