9.3x57 Mauser using 444 Marlin brass

[7-30 Waters]

Been toying with the idea of a 9.3x57 Mauser in a T/C Encore but using 444 Marlin brass.  Kind of like a 9.3 JDJ. 

I have the brass, dies and the other needed reloading components to make it shoot.  Now all I have to do is find a barrel maker.  OTT llc is about my only option.

Any suggestions for other Encore barrel makers?  MGM & Bullberry don't have the reamer in stock. 

Can anyone recommend a reamer rental company?

[Smokin Joe]

4-D has the reamer:

http://4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers

You might have to make a rim cut using a .30-30 reamer with a 9.3 pilot. If that's the case, they can help with that also.

[7-30 Waters]

4-D has the reamer:

http://4-dproducts.com/display.php?group=Rifle+Calibers

You might have to make a rim cut using a .30-30 reamer with a 9.3 pilot. If that's the case, they can help with that also.

I have never heard of this company.  Has anyone on this website had dealings with them?

[Smokin Joe]

About half the guys in the Handi-Rifle forum area have used them. I believe that they are still a site advertiser also, Check with quickdtoo for a reference.

I've used them many times....they're super.

[Graybeard]

You might have to make a rim cut using a .30-30 reamer with a 9.3 pilot. If that's the case, they can help with that also.

Why in the world would you do that? It's not the same rim size. 

[onesonek]

You might have to make a rim cut using a .30-30 reamer with a 9.3 pilot. If that's the case, they can help with that also.

Why in the world would you do that? It's not the same rim size. 

I agree,,,I wouldn't go this route. Now as far as rentals  go, some may have had good experiences doing this. I asked a couple of barrrel makers on this with Encore barrels in mind, and they said,,,,"ah NO". They don't know where they been and how they been treated, and how many chambers they had been used in. They were not about to stake the their reputation on this practice.
Have you asked JD on his thoughts? I'm not familar with his 9.3 round, but I almost have to think it's based off .444 brass. And JD's work is recognized as top notch.
Also I know with Mike at OTT there is a wait, but you get what you want without reamer concerns. I had him do me a 9.3x74R,(nothing out of the ordinary) it's a nice tight chamber and a excellent shooter.

Dave

[Reed1911]

4-D is owned by Fred Zeglin, an excellent guy to work with. All his reamers are inspected everytime they go out and everytime they come back in. If they are worn, chipped, or in any damaged they are trashed and replaced.

[Smokin Joe]

Why in the world would you do that? It's not the same rim size.

Bill, I didn't elaborate because I didn't want to hijack the discussion. I did a similar thing with a Handi-Rifle rechamber from .357 mag to .356 Win using a .358 reamer. The piloted .30-30 reamer is used to save some time and get things straight........the last couple of thousands is cut with a carbide lathe bit while she's still chucked up.

[onesonek]

4-D is owned by Fred Zeglin, an excellent guy to work with. All his reamers are inspected everytime they go out and everytime they come back in. If they are worn, chipped, or in any damaged they are trashed and replaced.

From all accounts I have heard, Fred is a standup guy and runs his business as such. I appreciate that, and also am assured he inspects the reamers. My post was not to disregard his tooling , his practices, or his company, only to point out some gunsmiths will not go that route. I should have made the point of finding a smith first before renting a reamer.

Dave

[7-30 Waters]

The 9.3x57mm Mauser

By Chuck Hawks


The 9.3x57 Mauser was introduced around the turn of the 20th Century. It was created by simply necking-up the 8x57 Mauser case to accept 9.3mm (.366" diameter) bullets. The 9.3x57 is reasonably popular in Scandinavia for hunting moose (alg) and wild boar. Its purpose and ballistics are similar to the .358 Winchester cartridge.

It is important not to confuse the 9.3x57 Mauser cartridge with the similar 9x57 Mauser, which is based on the same 8x57 case but necked-up to accept 9mm (.356" diameter) bullets. The 9.3x57 Mannlicher is a different cartridge, but similar in appearance. The 9.3x57 Mauser is not interchangeable with either of these cartridges.

The 9.3x57 Mauser retains the 8x57's case dimensions in regard to rim and head diameter, case length, and shoulder angle. The larger 9.3mm bullet diameter is the big difference, with consequently a much reduced shoulder area. Since the 9.3x57 is a standard rimless case that headspaces on the shoulder, that small shoulder could cause headspacing problems, but apparently its angle is sharp enough that it doesn't. Never the less, if I were reloading 9.3x57mm cartridges, I would watch case length carefully and check for incipient case head separations.

Norma of Sweden still offers two factory loads in 9.3x57mm. One uses a 232 grain Oryx bullet and the other drives a 286 grain Alaska bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2065 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 2714 ft. lbs.

Reloaders can duplicate the performance of this factory load, and A-Square, Barnes, Nosler, Speer, Swift, and Woodleigh offer .366" bullets to North American reloaders in 250, 270, 286, and 300 grain weights. Reloading data for the 9.3x57, however, is not easy to find in North American reloading manuals.

The 9th Edition of Cartridges of the World lists a reload using a 286 grain bullet in front of 43.0 grains of IMR 3031 powder for a MV of 2070 fps and ME of 2721 ft. lbs. At 100 yards the remaining velocity is 1914 fps and the energy 2325 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the figures are 1765 fps and 1979 ft. lbs. And at 300 yards the velocity is 1625 fps and the energy is 1678 ft. lbs.

In the case of the 286 grain Nosler Partition bullet, which has a SD of .307 and a BC of .482, the trajectory would look like this: +1.9" at 50 yards, +3" at 100 yards, +1.9" at 150 yards, -1.9" at 200 yards, -8.5" at 250 yards, -18.1" at 300 yards. The maximum point blank range (+/- 3") is 211 yards.

Note: A complete article about the 9.3x57 can be found on the Rifle Cartridge Page.

I chose the 444 Marlin case instead of the 8x57 because I like rimmed cartridges in single shot guns.   Otherwise, I wouldn't mind having a bolt gun in this cartridge and using 8x57 brass.

Thanks for all the information so far.  I may be better off doing the bolt gun first.  PAC-NOR chambers this cartridge in barrels for bolt action guns.

[onesonek]

I know your intial thoughts were with the .444 brass because you have it.  I just wanted to point out, also with the rim thoughts, you might consider the 9.3x74R. While the brass isn't real cheap, it is a darn good performer in my Encore.  I'm running a fair bit over manual listed loads, and I have my theory as to why that is.  But they extract easy, and so far don't see any signs of problems. Just another 9.3 rimmed option there for you.

Dave

[Duckhunter39480]

You might try this 'smith.  He has done work for me and it was excellent.  He is very good on Encore and Contender barrels.

D and T Custom Gunworks
432352 E. 290 Road
Vinita, OK. 74301

[Syncerus]

Just buying a 9.3x74R barrel would be easier and more practical. It will even give you some resale value, should you decide the project a mistake.

[onesonek]

I should have mentioned earlier also,,,I believe JD Jones did or does a 9.3, I'm not sure off hand what parent case.

Dave

[Duckhunter39480]

This looks like a very doable project.  The cartridge length works and the Encore is certainly capable of handling the expected pressures.  You can use the standard 9.3x57 dies (if such an animal exist) to form brass.  A single pass through the sizing die and a slight trimming will do the job.  

In addition, your smith may be able to make your chamber so that you can use the 9.3X57 standard (rimless) case in addition to the reformed 444 Marlin (rimmed) case.  I know of several instances where there have been rim recesses cut into the breach face to allow use of the rimmed or rimless cartridge.  The worry about resale of these wildcat barrels is somewhat overstated sometimes because most of us that wildcat also reload.  If we don't we would just as soon have a 35 Whelen, 338-06 or something else we can buy off the shelf.  

Speaking of reloading, I think you can reload for a 9.3X57R(using 444 brass), complete with purchase of dies, brass, powder, primers and bullets for what a good supply of 9.3X74R would cost.  I don't find these everywhere but they are available from MidwayUSA.  A box of 20 is listed from $51.99 to $97.99.  Good shooting either way you go.

[onesonek]

This looks like a very doable project.  The cartridge length works and the Encore is certainly capable of handling the expected pressures.  You can use the standard 9.3x57 dies (if such an animal exist) to form brass.  A single pass through the sizing die and a slight trimming will do the job.  

In addition, your smith may be able to make your chamber so that you can use the 9.3X57 standard (rimless) case in addition to the reformed 444 Marlin (rimmed) case.  I know of several instances where there have been rim recesses cut into the breach face to allow use of the rimmed or rimless cartridge.  The worry about resale of these wildcat barrels is somewhat overstated sometimes because most of us that wildcat also reload.  If we don't we would just as soon have a 35 Whelen, 338-06 or something else we can buy off the shelf.  

Speaking of reloading, I think you can reload for a 9.3X57R(using 444 brass), complete with purchase of dies, brass, powder, primers and bullets for what a good supply of 9.3X74R would cost.  I don't find these everywhere but they are available from MidwayUSA.  A box of 20 is listed from $51.99 to $97.99.  Good shooting either way you go.

I disagree with this in part,,,,,as you stated, wildcatters reload. So why would a any rational reloader buy 9.3x74R factory ammo?
The biggest advantage to the 74R is capacity. It's impressive in the Encore , I know as I have one. Die cost might go in favor of the 74R, brass cost in favor of the 57/444 case.

[Duckhunter39480]

"The biggest advantage to the 74R is capacity. It's impressive in the Encore , I know as I have one. Die cost might go in favor of the 74R, brass cost in favor of the 57/444 case."

I WILL agree with the impressive part.  Anything with that much powder capacity is missused if you don't go full bore.  Its like watching artillery; it would be fun just to see this sucker go off.  How much muzzle energy do you get from a 9.3X74R from a standard factory load?

My cost comparison is based on the "first case" cost.  They have to come from somewhere and I will bet you won't find them lying on the ground at your local firing range.  However, if you get past the first purchase it would probably be an even match.

[onesonek]

Well everything has first case cost, I wouldn't buy factory ammo to get them,,,not when new brass is available.
The factory  rounds are mild by todays standards, as most of their use is in drillings. My Encore barrel isn't your typical 9.3x74R. It has extremely tight chamber tolerences, along with a longer throat than what the factory production might be. Therefore I run mine up some, but still safe with no pressure issues as of yet. Factory loads run about 22-2350 fps with 250's and 286 gr weights. Energy just guessing in the 3200 area.

Dave

[Frank46]

If you are going to use a rimmed version of the 9.3x57 you'll need a magazine designed to work with rimmed cases. The siamese magazine comes to mind. Now having said that you might want to check on the P14 enfield in 303 british. Don't know if the siamese bottom metal will mate up to a 98 mauser receiver without a lot of $$$ work. Or make up a working man's copy of the british lee speed using a #1MKIII action. Should handle the cartridge and since pressures on the standard 9.3x57 are at about 40K should handle the pressures. Better yet, try the 9.5x57 cartridge, or your rimmed version. Takes standard .375 bullets jacketed or cast. Twist rate on a .375 bbl could be either 1x14 or 1x12. Easily take a 300 gr .375 bullet. Just a few suggestions. Frank

[jedman]

 Another idea for your brass would be to use 7 x 57 R or 8 x 57 JR brass.
I have several rimmed wildcats on this brass and I find it on auction sites very reasonable if you watch for it.      Jedman