How long between shots ?

[CoffeeInMe]

When target shooting or sighting in:
How long between shots do you typically wait before shooting again with regular barrel ?
How long between shots do you typically wait before shooting again with  bull barrel ?
How many rounds do you typically shoot before you do the above ?
Im asking because of a barrel getting heated up and how it might effect the accuracy.

[Graybeard]

Big game hunting rifles three shots and heavy barrel target or varmint rifles five shots. I seldom do much waiting as you're not gonna when in the field. Of what value is it to know something that has no application to your real use of it?

I'll normally fire at most two groups of three or five then set it aside and use another to do the same and then come back to it.

[victorcharlie]

Lately, I've been working up a load for a Remington 700 BDL in 30.06 and have been shooting it a fair amount.

In hot weather, I've waited as long as 15 minutes for the barrel to cool.  At current temps of around 80, after a couple of shots I wait about 5 minutes for the barrel to cool.  In July, I'd fire 20 rounds in 2 hours.

Last winter, I'd go the the range on saturday mornings just after daylight with temps near freezing and the barrel would cool much quicker and I'd only wait a couple of minutes.

I can usually get a couple of shots in during the first couple of minutes before the barrel gets hot to the touch.

[CoffeeInMe]

Sounds great. This gives me a rule of thumb to go by. I wondered how others approached this method.
Thanks

[Kurt L]

I also do as others for the most part.
I shoot 3 shot groups when working up loads then let it set and shoot another gun etc till it cools back down could be 10 minutes to half an hour all depends on the temp out that day but any way heavy target or sporter or etc I shoot 3 shots then cool.

[Coyote Hunter]

For my sporter barrels, 3 shots is usually it but temperature plays a big part.  I always take more than one rifle so waiting for a barel to cool isn't a big deal.

[DalesCarpentry]

It also depends on the caliber you are shooting. If you are shooting a 300 Win. Mag the barrel is going to get a lot hotter and quicker than if you are shooting, lets say a 223 Rem. When I go to the range and shoot I never let the barrel get to hot. If you grab a good hold of the barrel and can't hold on to it for more than 2 or 3 seconds then it is to hot. This is JMO and others may differ. Dale

[corbanzo]

Depends on the barrel really.  Some react differently to heat than others. 

Usually I wait like 30-45 seconds between each shot to let the metal cool down a little bit.  I don't give it long times to cool down, unless I go downrange to check targets. 

If you are waiting a short time, and your groups are opening up, wait a little longer.  Take notes for the gun, that is the only real way to know for that barrel. 

[Graybeard]

I hate to see such recommendations. Yeah I know if ya got a piss poor barrel that shifts POI as it heats then it helps reduce group size to wait extended periods but what does it REALLY prove? Do you want to see tiny groups that are NOT representative of what the barrel will really do when used in the field or do you want to know what the gun is gonna do when you actually take it out and use it?

I still say you're kidding yourself to sit and wait ridiculously long periods beteen shots to try to reduce group size so you can come here with a photo to brag on. Shoot the thing as you will when you use it for whatever it is you plan to use the gun for and accept what it does as the real world. Cool it only enough to keep from damaging it.

When out on a PD shoot you sure aren't thinking about letting the barrel cool 30 to 90 seconds between shots and for sure not minutes between them. If you shoot a deer and that sucker is hauling ass getting away are you gonna be sure and wait the required minute or more between shots to take that follow up? Nope ya sure ain't. So why not just use it as you plan to and find out what the gun is really gonna do for you as you use it in the real world. Dang folks we're getting too hung up on a tiny group to show a photo of to the rest. If you're that worried shoot it at 25 yards and just don't tell us you did.

[IOWA DON]

My Thompson Center TCR-87 is very accurate if one never lets the barrel get too warm. However, if alloweed to get warm it is noticably less accurate. Here Greybeard really has a point. The only thing I've used that barrel for is prarie dog shooting where the barrel is warm most of the time. My targets do not represent the accuracy I get when using it. My deer, antelope and coyote rifles never have hot barrels when hunting, so there is no reason to check sighting or develope loads with them getting the barrels hot. If I can't hit a standing animal with the first shot, I guess I don't think there is much use trying to hit it running with a second or third shot. The biggest factor for me for time between shots is the caliber of the rifle and weight of the barrel. I can shoot a 5-shoot group with my heavy barreled .17 Hornet about as fast as I can load and pull the trigger, and the barrel is barely warm. On my .338-.378 Weatherby that is a several minute process. I've got a 7X57 Mauser that for me is a target/practice rifle. I have participated in some informal rapid fire practice where the barrel got really hot by my standards. I was a little worried the heat would result in it burning out fast, but the other guys told me not to worry as they had put many hundreds of rounds through their rifles (in .308's and .30-06's) without the barrels burning out.

[Bart Solo]

I shoot a sporter most of the time, so I shoot three shot groups.  I find that if you shoot more than that the barrel heats up and I don't care what kind of sporter you are shooting the point of aim is going to change, at least a little. Bull barrels handle heat better, but even they will succumb to heat over time.  A friend of mine goes PD hunting every year.  He has two good rifles.  He switches back and forth.

[bilmac]

Snipers are taught to recognize that the POI may change as the rifle warms up. They have a name for the first shot something like cold shot or something like that. If you really want to be picky, a person should sight in based on the very first shot from a dead cold barrel.

 True you might be able to shoot a little smaller group by waiting for the barrel to cool, but what does it prove, except for bragging rights. You can't go to any shootin match I know of and let your barrel cool between shots, and a deer isn't going to wait either.

[targshooter]

CoffeInMe,
When still hunting big game, I hunt with three cartridges in the rifle. When I am practicing snap shots I shoot all three as quickly as I can accurately at 200 yards offhand. None of my hunting rifles heat up enough to shift the POI at this range. My one prairie dog rig gets shot from the bench for a full magazine as quickly as I can shoot it to allow for sustained accurate fire required by such at 200 yards (my hunting rifle sight in range). The particular AR I use does not shift under these conditions. Sighting in and timed fire for my calibration as a shooter is done with 1 minute between shots and a maximum of 10 (usually shoot three with scoped hunting type bolt rifles as this is the simplest geometric pattern for POI determination, and 6 with my ARs) shots. I use this regimen at both my target range of 300 meters (an AR, Remington 40XC and several scoped bolt action rifles) and my hunting range of 200 yards for my calibration exercises.

[Graybeard]

I shoot a sporter most of the time, so I shoot three shot groups.  I find that if you shoot more than that the barrel heats up and I don't care what kind of sporter you are shooting the point of aim is going to change, at least a little. Bull barrels handle heat better, but even they will succumb to heat over time.  A friend of mine goes PD hunting every year.  He has two good rifles.  He switches back and forth.

That's a common misconception but simply isn't true. Barrels that change POI as they heat up are barrels that are improperly made. It makes no difference how heavy or light the barrel is if it's not made correctly it will shift POI as it heats up. It is true it takes a heavy barrel longer and it is a bit stiffer but if it is not properly stress relieved it will shift. If it is relatively stress free it will not shift hot or cold. I have several Remington Mtn. Rifles that do not shift POI as they heat even tho they are very thin barrels.

Shift or not it's a measure of barrel quality not barrel diameter.

[jhm]

I usually wait 365 days!!!  from opening morning to opening morning of the deer hunting season!!!   ( just kidding of course ) how are you going to tell if the rifle is going to be any good if you dont try different time frames, I usually just try 3 shot groups as most of my rifles are bolts and you usually are not going to get off more than that before everyone in the camp know you have missed.   JIM

[Val]

I wrap my hand around the barrel and if the barrel is cool enough to not cause discomfort then I shoot. Taking a second gun to the range is also a good approach.

[charles p]

Does a barrell heat up more on one side than the other?  Why does POI shift anyway?  Seems like a barrell that heats evenly would stay pretty close to the original POI.

I know it happens.  Not suggesting that it doesn't of shouldn't, just why does one spot expand more than the other?

[Bart Solo]

Charles P, you can read a good, if simple, explanation of why POA shifts from bullet to bullet at http://www.rifle-accuracy.com/harmonics.htm

Just remember that heat changes the harmonics. 

[Coyote Hunter]

 True you might be able to shoot a little smaller group by waiting for the barrel to cool, but what does it prove, except for bragging rights. You can't go to any shootin match I know of and let your barrel cool between shots, and a deer isn't going to wait either.

The most important shot I take at the range is the first shot from a cold and properly fouled barrel.  The reason is that its the most important shot I take n the field as well.

[Snareman]

I hate to see such recommendations. Yeah I know if ya got a piss poor barrel that shifts POI as it heats then it helps reduce group size to wait extended periods but what does it REALLY prove? Do you want to see tiny groups that are NOT representative of what the barrel will really do when used in the field or do you want to know what the gun is gonna do when you actually take it out and use it?

I still say you're kidding yourself to sit and wait ridiculously long periods beteen shots to try to reduce group size so you can come here with a photo to brag on. Shoot the thing as you will when you use it for whatever it is you plan to use the gun for and accept what it does as the real world. Cool it only enough to keep from damaging it.

When out on a PD shoot you sure aren't thinking about letting the barrel cool 30 to 90 seconds between shots and for sure not minutes between them. If you shoot a deer and that sucker is hauling ass getting away are you gonna be sure and wait the required minute or more between shots to take that follow up? Nope ya sure ain't. So why not just use it as you plan to and find out what the gun is really gonna do for you as you use it in the real world. Dang folks we're getting too hung up on a tiny group to show a photo of to the rest. If you're that worried shoot it at 25 yards and just don't tell us you did.

Graybeard,

No one agrees with you.

LOL!  Just kidding.  While I'm a rookie at all this, the education is exciting.  In fact, I just asked the same question in one of my earlier posts about heated barrels, etc.  While I can't speak for others, I do have interest in knowing more about this subject because it gives me piece of mind to know if there's something I can do to have my groups tight at the practice range, it will undoubtedly affect my performance in the field because confidence is important when shooting.  While I use to be a sponsored archer competitor, I know the importance of confidence and comparing the similarities of competition, knowing my gun groups well on the range gives me confidence when I see that deer way out there and I have to make a good shot.  There's nothing like knowing I'm all over the bullseye on the range when I'm out hunting, because that image is in my mind when I go and make that critical shot.

Snareman

[wyohandi]

sometimes I wait a whole day between shots, the first ones the only one that matters
unless its a target/prarie dog gun.

[Graybeard]

Graybeard,

No one agrees with you.

Yup I notice that a lot. 

The most important shot I take at the range is the first shot from a cold and properly fouled barrel.

 

Ya got that right. In fact the ONLY group size that matters is the group that first bullet from the cold barrel makes. If you really want confidence you'll kill game with your gun once a day take it to the range and fire one shot at the same target. Do it every day for a week or better yet over a longer period in a variety of weather conditions to simulate hunting season as well as possible. If that group is centered where it should be and is nice and tight that's the best confidence booster you can have. If it doesn't then you better get to working to find out why it doesn't.

[bilmac]

For sure. I have had rifles that you had to rezero almost every time you took it out. I don't have it anymore. If the rifle doesn't print the second shot right on top of the first because the barrel is now warm, what difference does that make, the deer is now going to be moving.

[rickt300]

Starting from a cold barrel you could fire three shots pretty quickly and then have a warm barrel if you are using a 30-06 sized cartridge.  If you are fireing a long string of shots you may want to space your shots a bit. I did this yesterday just to empty some brass to reload. After the barrel got warm and after everyone went to look at their targets I'd fire one shot wait 60 seconds, fire the second shot and wait 2 minutes and then fire the third shot. The range master timed his relays on my third shot so people could go look at their targets. Took less than 10 minutes usually before he declared the range hot again.The 270 barrel still got pretty warm but my POI changed very little if at all.

[rickt300]

One day at the range a guy showed up with a brand new M14 copy made by Norinco. He sits down and proceeds to fire 2 magazines (40 shots) one after another. He had not disassembled and cleaned the rifle before shooting it and his hot barrel set whatever grease was used to preserve the rifle on fire. Kind of funny actually watching litle flames and lots of smoke coming out from his handgaurd. Especially since I was the one ducking the buttheads brass.

[kansas45]

One day at the range a guy showed up with a brand new M14 copy made by Norinco. He sits down and proceeds to fire 2 magazines (40 shots) one after another. He had not disassembled and cleaned the rifle before shooting it and his hot barrel set whatever grease was used to preserve the rifle on fire. Kind of funny actually watching litle flames and lots of smoke coming out from his handgaurd. Especially since I was the one ducking the buttheads brass.

YIKES!