water buffalo & the 45/70

[dodd3]

who said that a 45/70 is no good on dangerous game heres proof
bernie
Vic Attard took these buffalos using a Marlin 45/70 and PMC ammunition.

(as pictured in Big Game Australia issue 1)


Buffalows shot by Peter Wiesenekker in Arnhem Land Australia,
using a Marlin Cowboy 45/70.

[45454]

There's no doubt in my mind.
When I was a member of Yahoo Groups,one guy had doubts about the 45-70 for bears.
He just didn't read up on this old round.
I still think it's a great round for sure ! 
Course,I have to load in the Trapdoor range,for both rifles:
one is a NEF Handirifle,the other is an original 1884 Springfield TD.
Those rounds will do their job.
I enjoy reloading the 45-70.
Great pics !

[rex6666]

45454
Ihave a handi in 45/70 and all the ammo i pickup is safe in it Rem. does
say safe in trap door, Hornady, buffalo and many others are safe in the handi.

[quickdtoo]

Course,I have to load in the Trapdoor range,for both rifles:
one is a NEF Handirifle,...

You may choose to load only trapdoor loads due to recoil, but the Handi will handle much more than that, it's factory chambered in 450 Marlin and 500S&W.

Tim

All .45-70 Magnum loadings are intended for use in the following firearms:
All Marlin Model 1895 variations made since 1972
Browning Model 1885 and 1886
New England Arms Handi-Rifle
Ruger #1 and #3
T/C Encore
Shiloh, Christian and Pedersoli Sharps
New Production Winchester 1886

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570

[45454]

Thanks guys for the info.
Yes,I've shot 8 rounds of the Winnie ammo.
All were the 300gr.My shoulder couldn't take anymore.
That was all I could do in the Handi.
For some reason,I still liked this rifle.
But,on the 3 boxes,no where it said "Trapdoor".
Pulled the remaining rounds.Re-built them with Mag primers and GOEX 2F.
With BP,I can shoot 405gr,and still fire more.
None of these BP loads are wimp loads.Full power.
Most,as in 98% of the ammo,is in BP.A full 70gr by volume.
Many are with the 405gr.Some are in the 500gr-full 70gr of 2F.
I hope,in the near future to try out the smokey-less stuff.
I would not hesitate to use the BP loads for hunting.
It's just the idea of getting to the range.
You guys have a good week.

[rex6666]

get you some Hornady 325 gr leverevelution.
or some 500 gr Buffalo

[rex6666]

is that the same water buffalo that the Asians lead around with a ring in their
nose, and make them pull a plow.

[Skunk]

is that the same water buffalo that the Asians lead around with a ring in their nose, and make them pull a plow.

Rex, I think that's a good question, and the answer is yes (you probably already knew that, though). Both are considered the species: Bubalus bubalis. They originated in Asia where they were domesticated. Early in the 19th century, Bubalus bubalis, was introduced into the Northern Territory, Australia. However, these Bubalus bubalis quickly escaped and became feral Bubalus bubalis. I guess they didn't want to be a beast of burden. 

[rex6666]

Yeah that's what i thought kinda like feral hogs. I don't think that feral hogs
have the same attitude as say russians, i have killed plenty of ferals.
Has anyone domesticated the cape buffalo? bet he has a different attitude
than the water buffalo. Just my opinion.

[dodd3]

Yeah that's what i thought kinda like feral hogs. I don't think that feral hogs
have the same attitude as say russians, i have killed plenty of ferals.
Has anyone domesticated the cape buffalo? bet he has a different attitude
than the water buffalo. Just my opinion.

i tell you what why dont you come down  to oz and shoot one on foot in open country not from a 4x4 and see if they got attitude, they are very diferent from domesticated ones there have been people kiled by them also the water buff is bigger than the cape buff same as feral hogs here a lot of guys have found out the hard way with an attitude like yours.
bernie

[S.E.Ak]

Folks been raising cows for a thousand years but it don't make PBR bulls lambs.Also if hogs in a pen will eat you feral hogs will do the same if the chance comes.

[rex6666]

I have never shot a water buffalo, but what i have seen on supposedly authentic
hunts in open ground hunter on foot about 300yards away, doubt if the buf.
even knew where bullet came from. Size has very little to do with the fight
in an animal. I have killed 15-20 fearl hogs and have talked to people that ha shot Russians and they are a little different when shot. Any wild or semi-wild
animal will kill you. As far as PBR bulls go "they are trained to buck" take
the flank strap of and they are different animals, oh no they do not become docile
but they do tame down.
OZ ?

[quickdtoo]

According to these sites, the water buffalo isn't an easy kill and can be just as mean and nasty as the cape buffalo.  I'd trust Bernie's opinion on the matter, he's been there, done it.....still is!!

OZ = Australia

Tim


http://www.australiawidesafaris.com.au/html_pages/water_buffalo_hunting_safaris.html

http://www.huntingwdoug.com/trip.asp?S=101&L=16

[dodd3]

According to these sites, the water buffalo isn't an easy kill and can be just as mean and nasty as the cape buffalo.  I'd trust Bernie's opinion on the matter, he's been there, done it.....still is!!

OZ = Australia

Tim


http://www.australiawidesafaris.com.au/html_pages/water_buffalo_hunting_safaris.html

http://www.huntingwdoug.com/trip.asp?S=101&L=16

thanks Tim and i took my water buff with a .58 muzzleloader with a 625 Grn slug at less than 50 yards not with a high powered riffle at 300 yards i have shot 3 of them all under 50 yards
Bernie

[S.E.Ak]

Fact is they still buck without the flank strap. In his pic he looks more like 20 yards than 300 hundred and it don't look like the buff is coming to be petted.If your DG experience is just pigs you need to save up and hunt something that is willing to hurt you before you shot it.Of course a poor shot at 10 yards on a pig with good tushes and things do get intresting.

[quickdtoo]

Way to go Bernie!!

[Mike Britton]

Thanks guys for the info.
Yes,I've shot 8 rounds of the Winnie ammo.
All were the 300gr.My shoulder couldn't take anymore.
That was all I could do in the Handi.
For some reason,I still liked this rifle.
But,on the 3 boxes,no where it said "Trapdoor".
Pulled the remaining rounds.Re-built them with Mag primers and GOEX 2F.
With BP,I can shoot 405gr,and still fire more.
None of these BP loads are wimp loads.Full power.
Most,as in 98% of the ammo,is in BP.A full 70gr by volume.
Many are with the 405gr.Some are in the 500gr-full 70gr of 2F.
I hope,in the near future to try out the smokey-less stuff.
I would not hesitate to use the BP loads for hunting.
It's just the idea of getting to the range.
You guys have a good week.

BP loads did a fine job on Buffs back 125 years ago, thank you very much!

[AtlLaw]

I'd trust Bernie's opinion on the matter, he's been there, done it.....still is!!

I will also, but I know where Rex is coming from.  Every WB I have seen, many BTW, was about as belligerent as a slow-witted kitten.  I still feel bad about the ones we killed...    and would never kill another.  That was the first thought that popped into my mind when I saw these pictures.  But I also wouldn't denigrate anyone for hunting them.

As far as comparing them with Cape Buffaloes, I don't remember ever hearing of them being domesticated like the WB's.  Maybe a difference in their natural temperament?   

[rex6666]

I have no problem with anyone hunting WB. my point is Their have been many books written on the CB and how dangerous it is
I have not seen any writing on the WB. I am not saying it is not dangerous, but in my opinion based on what i have read,
 it is not as dangerous as the cape, From what I can find on the WB puts him some where in the ranks of an American Bison.
The fact is Amigo is the bucking bulls are about half hearted with out the flank strap, and i have been on several of them.
Fact is any animal wild or domesticated will crap in you mess kit if you mess with it long enough.
Amigo if you look at the picture of the Buf that is standing he is standing not coming.

[S.E.Ak]

The WB gave many a Marine heck in the paddies of VN. The ones in India are the meanest I believe.I guess easier bull in your part of Texas,down here we had many a bull rodeo on a weekend where we would turn out a hundred bulls and most give em heck without flanks as it wasted time and we needed to move bulls.We have proved to PETA and AHS many times the flank was not cruel and ain't what made them buck. Are you out here in LV for the nationals,maybe we could hook up and I might just be able to get you on a bull without a flank.

[AtlLaw]

The WB gave many a Marine heck in the paddies of VN.

Can you give me your authority for this statement?   

Sorry, I usually don't comment on others statements, but I'm physically sick, which always makes me fractious, and mentally anguished over this election.  I just need someone to get on...   

[S.E.Ak]

Sure First Force Recon Co. 7/66 through 7/68 RVN DongHa,DaNang,Hue. Crazy also and got my papers to prove it 100% S.C. VA and S.S. Time to head back to Alaska.Of course tigers were worst,killed at least two Recon men I know of,bears not much of a problem nor the elephants.

[Mike Britton]

The WB gave many a Marine heck in the paddies of VN.

Can you give me your authority for this statement?   

Sorry, I usually don't comment on others statements, but I'm physically sick, which always makes me fractious, and mentally anguished over this election.  I just need someone to get on...   

Physically sick!!??!! AtlLaw say it ain't so!!!! I always like your comments. And agree with them, most of the time....

[AtlLaw]

First Force Recon Co. 7/66 through 7/68 ...

Ah so!  That explains why you limited your statement to "Marines in rice paddies!"   B Trp. 1st Sqdn. 9th Cav. Regt., 3/66 - 3/67; D Trp 2d Sqdn. 1st Cav. Regt of Dragoons, 9/69 - 9/70.

RVN DongHa,DaNang,Hue

And that explains the difference!  That far north the WB's were obviously NVA infiltrators!  base camps - Ahn Ke, Phan Thiet; AO all of II Corps.  Shared many a rice paddy with WB's, the ducks were more aggressive!

Crazy also

Another thing we have in common!  I don't think I am but everybody tells me different...

Time to head back to Alaska.

You obviously ain't TO crazy then.  Want some company?

tigers were worst,killed at least two Recon men I know of,

They always ran from us, maybe Marines tasted better, what with all that good Navy food and all...

bears not much of a problem

Heck, I didn't even know they HAD bears!

nor the elephants.

no, but we killed the domestic ones just like we did WB's when we thought they were being used as pack animals.

Welcome Home Brother!

[AtlLaw]

Physically sick!!??!!

Laid out of work; Got a Dr's appointment in a few minutes; the election might have something to do with it..., but I didn't even go deer hunting last weekend!  But it will give me a chance to run to the range and try out some of my handloads through my new-to-me Buff Classic barrel before the reaming to 45/120 takes place!  Saaaaaay! I bet that would make a pretty good WB round if I ever get down to Oz!   

[Mike Britton]

Physically sick!!??!!

Laid out of work; Got a Dr's appointment in a few minutes; the election might have something to do with it..., but I didn't even go deer hunting last weekend!  But it will give me a chance to run to the range and try out some of my handloads through my new-to-me Buff Classic barrel before the reaming to 45/120 takes place!  Saaaaaay! I bet that would make a pretty good WB round if I ever get down to Oz!   

I have a friend that has a .45/120 Sharps. Yer gonna like it!!!

[S.E.Ak]

Our tiger problem would happen because we would camp out a week at a time up in the mountains spread out some. So the kitty would just happen along and see a person sleeping by himself and figure him for dead and try to drag him off. Twice I know of the tiger won and a few times the victim would win. On old boy skinned his out and brought the hide back to camp and nailed it to the hooch. I thinkit was Men's magazine that ran the story sometime in 67. Welcome home back at ya and thanks for serving. The bears over there were black and had a big white V on their chest.

[dodd3]

Our tiger problem would happen because we would camp out a week at a time up in the mountains spread out some. So the kitty would just happen along and see a person sleeping by himself and figure him for dead and try to drag him off. Twice I know of the tiger won and a few times the victim would win. On old boy skinned his out and brought the hide back to camp and nailed it to the hooch. I thinkit was Men's magazine that ran the story sometime in 67. Welcome home back at ya and thanks for serving. The bears over there were black and had a big white V on their chest.

they are called sun bears.
bernie

[45454]

Thanks guys for the info.
Yes,I've shot 8 rounds of the Winnie ammo.
All were the 300gr.My shoulder couldn't take anymore.
That was all I could do in the Handi.
For some reason,I still liked this rifle.
But,on the 3 boxes,no where it said "Trapdoor".
Pulled the remaining rounds.Re-built them with Mag primers and GOEX 2F.
With BP,I can shoot 405gr,and still fire more.
None of these BP loads are wimp loads.Full power.
Most,as in 98% of the ammo,is in BP.A full 70gr by volume.
Many are with the 405gr.Some are in the 500gr-full 70gr of 2F.
I hope,in the near future to try out the smokey-less stuff.
I would not hesitate to use the BP loads for hunting.
It's just the idea of getting to the range.
You guys have a good week.

BP loads did a fine job on Buffs back 125 years ago, thank you very much!

   
Guess,better late than never.

[rex6666]

Thanks guys for the info.
Yes,I've shot 8 rounds of the Winnie ammo.
All were the 300gr.My shoulder couldn't take anymore.
That was all I could do in the Handi.
For some reason,I still liked this rifle.
But,on the 3 boxes,no where it said "Trapdoor".
Pulled the remaining rounds.Re-built them with Mag primers and GOEX 2F.
With BP,I can shoot 405gr,and still fire more.
None of these BP loads are wimp loads.Full power.
Most,as in 98% of the ammo,is in BP.A full 70gr by volume.
Many are with the 405gr.Some are in the 500gr-full 70gr of 2F.
I hope,in the near future to try out the smokey-less stuff.
I would not hesitate to use the BP loads for hunting.
It's just the idea of getting to the range.
You guys have a good week.

BP loads did a fine job on Buffs back 125 years ago, thank you very much!

they did a job 125 years ago, don't know how fine it was.