Author Topic: Biggest "October surprise" ever..  (Read 2873 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« on: October 05, 2008, 11:22:45 PM »
  Guys;
  We have just been hit by the biggest "October surprise" scam ever, and most have not yet even realized it !

   The financial crunch that brought oin this recent bailout did not begin in just the last two weeks. The problem has existed and
  grown larger since the mid-nineties. It all started with the Fannie/Freddie fiasco. Common sense tells us that making big loans to
  non-payers or someone that has not the ability to pay back a large loan, is financial suicide; yet that is exactly what our brilliant
  congress elected to do,and forced lending institutions to do...many under the duress of being called unfair, heartless or heavens
  forbid...racist.
       Fannie & Freddie is what brought down the house of cards.
    There were warnings given years ago by many members of congress. Even Bush in his half-hearted way, was warning Congress
  that there was a real problem as far back as 2006. ...And yes, along with others, McCain cried out for reform of the mess. However,
  since the day Congress was handed to the Democrats in 2006, they have been a "do-nothing" Congress, and no surprise. If they
  had acted when informed of the looming crisis, and rectified the problem...that would have spoiled their October, 2008 surprise !
   Does anyone think there was absolutely NO forewarning of this back in March, May or July ? If it were looming, why did we hear
  nothing about it ? Bush deserves much of the blame; it appears he hoped to skate past the election date without being tripped up.
  Any other conservatives speaking up were simply ignored by the major news outlets, most of them doing the bidding of their chosen
  political party.
  When late September 2008 came and the Dems gave the word..the willing media leaped into action..suddenly declaring a "crisis" that
  they somehow had not anticipated in any way, just two weeks, two months or two years earlier.
     The few half way decent members of Congress (IMO) were "caught napping" because they just could not believe that even people like
  Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid & co. could be so underhanded and just downright dirty enough to risk the collapse of our own
  financial system and ultimately, our country...just to win an election.
    We know that the Dems plan at least one "October surprise" for each election and Republicans should have been ready for it...but
  who could have imagined the depths some would stoop to to gain political advantage? Who would imagine that a political party would
  sponsor such voting fraud as some of the "community activist" organizations have committed..submitting 1500 voter names, just to
  have only 6 approved. Submitting names such as "Mary Poppins" and "Jive Turkey" on such lists.
   Well, it appears a large slice of the public has been fooled...and the major media has no plans on informing them either. If an Obama-
  Soros, Dr Wright, Wm Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi kind of country is what they want, they may very well get it.
 Thanks to devious, deceitful politicians, a willingly false "news" media, coupled with a large number of useful idiots...our freedom
 could, at this very moment be slipping away...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Swampman

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2008, 02:55:14 AM »
There's no sense trying to put this off on the Republicans.  The dems got us into this mess.....period!
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2008, 03:03:13 AM »
There's no sense trying to put this off on the Republicans.  The dems got us into this mess.....period!

How?

Offline Swampman

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 03:08:36 AM »
By forcing mortgage companies to make loans to people with bad credit.  The President told congress twice that they needed to fix this and they ignored him.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Heather

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 03:12:55 AM »
IMHO it took democrats, republicans, and the American people together to make this mess.  Even if banks were willing to loan you, would you buy something you couldn't afford?  In a time when people in general don't care about their good name and credit they take what they can now and to hell with the consequences later.  In the "good ol days" you couldn't convince a man to finance anything.  If he didn't have cash or couldn't work it out in trade then he didn't NEED it. Our country has took a nasty turn, but it isn't just our Gov, it is our citizens as well.

Heather
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Offline jhm

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2008, 03:21:23 AM »
I have lost LOTSA sleep wondering if it would have come out if HELLIRY had been picked by the LIBERAL dems. instead of WHAT they picked, seems kinda strange all was somewhat quiet until she was relagated to the back of the bus to speak for OSAMA at his beck and call.   JIM

Offline rex6666

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2008, 03:38:43 AM »
did anyone watch 60 minutes last night?
don't know how much of that was true but it was a good show, seems walst
took the big hit in the show.
Rex
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2008, 03:40:07 AM »
ACORN, one of Obamas community organizers, forced banks to give loans to the poor who couldn't afford it.  They threatened bank presidents families, walked into and upset board meetings, etc.  Obama is a socialist period.  He wants the government to take over.  He wants to bring down corporations.  Republicans were suckered into believing some of the hype.  Dems are socialist plain and simple.

Offline Heather

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2008, 03:52:36 AM »
ACORN, one of Obamas community organizers, forced banks to give loans to the poor who couldn't afford it.  They threatened bank presidents families, walked into and upset board meetings, etc.  Obama is a socialist period.  He wants the government to take over.  He wants to bring down corporations.  Republicans were suckered into believing some of the hype.  Dems are socialist plain and simple.

Republicans aren't suckered into anything.  They are politicians.  They know what is going on.  The only difference between republicans and democrats is what democrats will do out in the open, republicans prefer to do behind closed doors.

Heather
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Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline Dee

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2008, 04:37:28 AM »
ACORN, one of Obamas community organizers, forced banks to give loans to the poor who couldn't afford it.  They threatened bank presidents families, walked into and upset board meetings, etc.  Obama is a socialist period.  He wants the government to take over.  He wants to bring down corporations.  Republicans were suckered into believing some of the hype.  Dems are socialist plain and simple.

Republicans aren't suckered into anything.  They are politicians.  They know what is going on.  The only difference between republicans and democrats is what democrats will do out in the open, republicans prefer to do behind closed doors.

Heather

Heather you are EXACTLY RIGHT! Many Republicans are closet liberals. Let us not forget that McCain voted for the bail out. He even canceled his campaign to get it rolling. If he is SUCKERED THIS EASILY, as some here say, we are lost regardless of whom wins.
McCain's campaign Mgr. has received $15,000.00 a month FROM FREDDIE MAC, since 2005 for "undisclosed services". He was a lobbyist that has been very closely associated with McCain for years. Let us continue to ignore the facts, and support our party rabidly.
If the Republicans INCLUDING MCCAIN, are as gullible as this thread claims, then none of the Republicans are "smart enough" to be President.
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Offline magooch

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 05:32:06 AM »
Now that the deed is done, the real story is coming out.  Last night, Fox News did a very comprehensive report on the history of the debacle and right now as I'm typing this, old rat-face Hank Waxman is having a hearing.  C-Span is covering it.  Now it has begun and the news media will be all over it with their particular spin.  If you are able to filter through all the fog that will be created by the minutia, you'll see that it was the Dems who were preventing earlier action to head this thing off.   
Swingem

Offline rockbilly

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 07:55:17 AM »

How A Clinton-Era Rule Rewrite Made Subprime Crisis InevitableBy TERRY JONES
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:30 PM PT

One of the most frequently asked questions about the subprime market meltdown and housing crisis is: How did the government get so deeply involved in the housing market?

One answer is: President Clinton wanted it that way.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, even into the early 1990s, weren't the juggernauts they'd later be.While President Carter in 1977 signed the Community Reinvestment Act, which pushed Fannie and Freddie to aggressively lend to minority communities, it was Clinton who supercharged the process. After entering office in 1993, he extensively rewrote Fannie's and Freddie's rules.In so doing, he turned the two quasi-private, mortgage-funding firms into a semi-nationalized monopoly that dispensed cash to markets, made loans to large Democratic voting blocs and handed favors, jobs and money to political allies. This potent mix led inevitably to corruption and the Fannie-Freddie collapse.Despite warnings of trouble at Fannie and Freddie, in 1994 Clinton unveiled his National Homeownership Strategy, which broadened the CRA in ways Congress never intended.Addressing the National Association of Realtors that year, Clinton bluntly told the group that "more Americans should own their own homes." He meant it.Clinton saw homeownership as a way to open the door for blacks and other minorities to enter the middle class.Though well-intended, the problem was that Congress was about to change hands, from the Democrats to the Republicans. Rather than submit legislation that the GOP-led Congress was almost sure to reject, Clinton ordered Robert Rubin's Treasury Department to rewrite the rules in 1995.The rewrite, as City Journal noted back in 2000, "made getting a satisfactory CRA rating harder." Banks were given strict new numerical quotas and measures for the level of "diversity" in their loan portfolios. Getting a good CRA rating was key for a bank that wanted to expand or merge with another.Loans started being made on the basis of race, and often little else."Bank examiners would use federal home-loan data, broken down by neighborhood, income group and race, to rate banks on performance," wrote Howard Husock, a scholar at the Manhattan Institute.But those rules weren't enough.Clinton got the Department of Housing and Urban Development to double-team the issue. That would later prove disastrous.Clinton's HUD secretary, Andrew Cuomo, "made a series of decisions between 1997 and 2001 that gave birth to the country's current crisis," the liberal Village Voice noted. Among those decisions were changes that let Fannie and Freddie get into subprime loan markets in a big way.Other rule changes gave Fannie and Freddie extraordinary leverage, allowing them to hold just 2.5% of capital to back their investments, vs. 10% for banks.Since they could borrow at lower rates than banks due to implicit government guarantees for their debt, the government-sponsored enterprises boomed.With incentives in place, banks poured billions of dollars of loans into poor communities, often "no doc" and "no income" loans that required no money down and no verification of income.By 2007, Fannie and Freddie owned or guaranteed nearly half of the $12 trillion U.S. mortgage market — a staggering exposure.Worse still was the cronyism.Fannie and Freddie became home to out-of-work politicians, mostly Clinton Democrats. An informal survey of their top officials shows a roughly 2-to-1 dominance of Democrats over Republicans. Then there were the campaign donations. From 1989 to 2008, some 384 politicians got their tip jars filled by Fannie and Freddie.Over that time, the two GSEs spent $200 million on lobbying and political activities. Their charitable foundations dropped millions more on think tanks and radical community groups.Did it work? Well, if measured by the goal of putting more poor people into homes, the answer would have to be yes. From 1995 to 2005, a Harvard study shows, minorities made up 49% of the 12.5 million new homeowners.The problem is that many of those loans have now gone bad, and minority homeownership rates are shrinking fast. Fannie and Freddie, with their massive loan portfolios stuffed with securitized mortgage-backed paper created from subprime loans, are a failed legacy of the Clinton era.



Offline Heather

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 10:19:42 AM »
Rock....they had no choice but to push real estate..after exporting 20 million jobs overseas the last 2o years and allowing in 30 million illegals, they needed housing and to permit 'white flight'. After the dot.com bubble Bush had 5 things to temporarily pump up the economy: 1] housing bubble, 2] unbriddled immigration, 3] health industry bubble, 4] unregulated military contracts and 5] looking the other way and nonregulation.  In any case, the housing was needed to avoid cultural problems, and they had to promote it.  The real problem happened when the housing bubble over inflated with Bush-Brenanke-Paulson's lack of oversight and people got upside down on their obligations. In fact, I just looked at two homes today (Deuches Bank paper) that people walked away from...I told the bank agent that you will have to take a loss as the real value of the home is not close to the remaining mortgage...I also told them to grieve the property tax as it is not valid any more....they laughed. We'll see after today's crash.

...TM7

Stocks tumble on economic fears
Stocks fell to nearly five-year lows today as credit markets seized up and European governments' rush to prop up failing financial firms underscored the global reach of the credit crunch. But the Dow Jones industrial average, which lost as much as 800 points, began cutting its losses as the market close neared, www.CNNMoney.com reports. developing story
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Offline lrs

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 10:29:02 AM »
As much as I truly despise the democrats who were players in this mess, I think George Bush had a role in it. 
" we are screwed "

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 10:42:12 AM »
Bush saw it coming and warned congress to tighten up the regulations 12 times from 2003 on, but no, the wouldn't.  Then they blame Bush.  McCain introduced a bill with two other senators in 2005 to tighten up Fannie and Freddie, but no, congress wouldn't listen. 

Offline Dee

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2008, 12:07:20 PM »
Bush saw it coming and warned congress to tighten up the regulations 12 times from 2003 on, but no, the wouldn't.  Then they blame Bush.  McCain introduced a bill with two other senators in 2005 to tighten up Fannie and Freddie, but no, congress wouldn't listen. 

And weren't the Republicans in the majority then?
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2008, 12:11:13 PM »
As much as I truly despise the democrats who were players in this mess, I think George Bush had a role in it. 

Yea, he tried to get congress to stop it and they didn't.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline lrs

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2008, 12:32:24 PM »
Ever hear of Henry M. Paulson, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury?  ::)
He is part of the Bush administration.
President Bush, with the executive powers he has by virtue of being President, had the power to do more than warn something bad was headed this way.
And President Bush held multiple press conferences just last week, pushing for the bailout.

" we are screwed "

Offline Swampman

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2008, 12:49:24 PM »
Quote
And President Bush held multiple press conferences just last week, pushing for the bailout.

As he should have.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Casull

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2008, 01:11:58 PM »
Quote
And weren't the Republicans in the majority then?

The problem isn't with the Republicans, it is with the RINO's and the dem's.
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Guy Pike

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2008, 02:05:11 PM »
We have met the enemy, and he is us!
You can't beat a Cerberus!

Offline ironglow

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2008, 02:29:04 PM »
 Heather has some viable points..while the Dems got carried away with "fairness" and political correctness..and forced lending institutions into making bad loans (either that, or make NO loans at all), too many Reps stood by and let it go on. Apparently all the politicians that let the collapse happen,  were just hoping to skate long enough to "get theirs and head off  to Cancun or some other place. Stupid home buyers that over reached are also much to blame.
   Evidence does seem to show a plot however, to perform an October surprise..the Reps should have been ready, the Dems try one every election season. Still,  I am surprised they were willing to risk the economic and political well being of the whole nation...just to gain the presidency..I didn't even think they were capable of stooping that low and dangerous!
   Actually; we would have been better able to weather the vicissitudes of Wall st., had not so many "Americans" among us fought our energy independence for so many years. Twenty years or so of sending $700 billion to our enemies every year has cost us dearly, not only in lost petro dollars, but also loss of jobs drilling, distributing, mining, refining and otherwise procuring our own energy.
    Obama's plan to raise taxes, curtail freedoms, favor Africa...and who knows what about religion..will only take us down farther..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Heather

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2008, 03:21:23 PM »
Heather has some viable points..while the Dems got carried away with "fairness" and political correctness..and forced lending institutions into making bad loans (either that, or make NO loans at all), too many Reps stood by and let it go on. Apparently all the politicians that let the collapse happen,  were just hoping to skate long enough to "get theirs and head off  to Cancun or some other place. Stupid home buyers that over reached are also much to blame.
   Evidence does seem to show a plot however, to perform an October surprise..the Reps should have been ready, the Dems try one every election season. Still,  I am surprised they were willing to risk the economic and political well being of the whole nation...just to gain the presidency..I didn't even think they were capable of stooping that low and dangerous!
   Actually; we would have been better able to weather the vicissitudes of Wall st., had not so many "Americans" among us fought our energy independence for so many years. Twenty years or so of sending $700 billion to our enemies every year has cost us dearly, not only in lost petro dollars, but also loss of jobs drilling, distributing, mining, refining and otherwise procuring our own energy.
    Obama's plan to raise taxes, curtail freedoms, favor Africa...and who knows what about religion..will only take us down farther..

How do the democrats really benifit from this Oct surprise??????  It may have put Obama in the lead, but I just don't see Bush allowing him to take office.  He has the power to declare Martial Law.  He may let the elections play out.  IMO if Obama wins, We will see Martial Law and there will be no change in power.  This crisis on Wall St. gives us part 2 to the 2 part plan to have the nation not rebel against Martial law.  War+Economic Crisis=Martial Law.  Everyone in office now will benifit from this.  They will stay in office until it is "over".  The Dems might have planned the surprise, but the surprise is Really on them.  Obama wins and now Bush has a legal way to prevent him from taking office.  I may be way off here, but that is just how I see it.

Heather
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Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline bluebayou

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2008, 07:14:43 PM »
Wow, Heather, you had me with the first post, "home buyers were irresponsible".  Martial law? 

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2008, 01:43:54 AM »
Quote
And President Bush held multiple press conferences just last week, pushing for the bailout.

As he should have.

Actually, he should have shown the same enthusiasm to hold press conferences a few years ago. Yes, he warned Congress but was not loud & firm & did not go to the people. If he had at least the probem would be much less, but he wimped out.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2008, 03:41:29 AM »
  Heather;
  I honestly do not see martial law in any way, shape or manner...even though an Obama victory would be the best excuse ever ! ;) :D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2008, 05:02:40 AM »
The martial law deal I do not agree with, but I see it no more outlandish than a Democratic conspiracy to crash the economy at election time. That theory is the most outlandish of the two. TM7 has been accused of wearing a tin foil hat, but this one is at least as weird and unsubstanciated as anything he has injected into any conversation.
To try such a thing would involve hundreds of people, and could not have been kept quite with politicians on both sides loving to hear their own voices.
It appears there is more than one with a tin foil hat, and a taste for fictitious  drama.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Heather

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2008, 07:44:37 AM »
  Heather;
  I honestly do not see martial law in any way, shape or manner...even though an Obama victory would be the best excuse ever ! ;) :D

I doubt nothing at this point.  :'(
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2008, 07:55:51 AM »
Obama will be President and we can blame our fellow Republicans for that.  They would rather pout than vote.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Heather

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Re: Biggest "October surprise" ever..
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2008, 08:04:18 AM »
The martial law deal I do not agree with, but I see it no more outlandish than a Democratic conspiracy to crash the economy at election time. That theory is the most outlandish of the two. TM7 has been accused of wearing a tin foil hat, but this one is at least as weird and unsubstanciated as anything he has injected into any conversation.
To try such a thing would involve hundreds of people, and could not have been kept quite with politicians on both sides loving to hear their own voices.
It appears there is more than one with a tin foil hat, and a taste for fictitious  drama.


Thanks Dee that was kinda my point.  Was just trying to demonstrate that it is the fault of both parties.  Either party could have had a motive to develop an "October Surprise".  Thou, I do feel that nothing is impossible.  Our leaders have disappointed us to a point of no return.  I think they are capable of just about anything. 

Heather
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
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A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin