Biggest "October surprise" ever..

[Heather]

Obama will be President and we can blame our fellow Republicans for that.  They would rather pout than vote.

Swampman I think you are demonstrating qualities of a very ignorant person.  I don't recall anyone on this topic saying they weren't gonna vote.  Did  you pull that outta your magic hat.  People aren't pouting, they are demonstrating their first amendment right to free speech.  We have the right to show our concerns for the way the gov is handling things.  I know that I personally will vote, just so I feel I am justified in my complaining.  I doubt anyone who cares enough about this country to have mostly intelligent conversations and debates about the current state of our country, would be careless enough not to vote.

Heather

[Swampman]

I'm pretty sure that Dee (and several others) either said he wasn't voting or that he was gonna waste his vote on a 3rd party candidate which is just as bad or worse.  Pouty Republicans who didn't get their way are going to put Obama in the White House and our rights in the dumpster.....period!

President Bush has done a good job and all they've done is complain.

[Matt]

So let me see if I understand this...

The republicans such as yourself pick a candidate that cant win then when the folks who have enough sense not to vote for either of the 2 liberal candidates knowing that it will only push this country to its breaking point are wasting their vote. BULL$HIT

It seems to me a vote for mccain or obama is a wasted vote because both will send this country over the edge.

IF YOU WANT REAL CHANGE THEN CHANGE YOUR PARTY BECAUSE YOUR PARTY WILL NOT CHANGE FOR YOU.

I am about feed up with the whole mess and damnit if I choose to vote outside of the two main parties I feel that is the only vote that will mean anything as then people will see that I am feed up otherwise I am only condoning more of the same.... NO THANKS...

President Bush has done a good job and all they've done is complain

Dude you are a $#$@#@%$@#$%@#$$@#$ Idoiot!

[Swampman]

I'm only concerned with the 2nd Ammendment.  The country went over the edge in the late 1950s.

Whoever runs it, is like the captain of the Titanic.  They can only do so much.

President Bush has done a pretty good job running this mobocracy.

[Matt]

I'm only concerned with the 2nd Ammendment.  The country went over the edge in the late 1950s.

Whoever runs it, is like the captain of the Titanic.  They can only do so much.

President Bush has done a pretty good job running this mobocracy.

 I will give you a history lesson later when I got time but you are really out of touch if you think that bush has done a good job.

[lrs]

I'm only concerned with the 2nd Ammendment.  The country went over the edge in the late 1950s.

Whoever runs it, is like the captain of the Titanic.  They can only do so much.

President Bush has done a pretty good job running this mobocracy.

If your main concern is the 2nd amendment, why are you voting for John McCain?
I'm starting to wonder who you really are.  So far, you have said very little ( being generous ) that makes any sense.

[Swampman]

Obama's stated goal is to take your guns.  If you are an NRA member, please read the things they send you.

[myronman3]

I'm only concerned with the 2nd Ammendment. ....

yeah, really concerned.  so concerned he sold anything he thought might offend anyone else, and openly talks down to anyone who owns anything like an ar15.  yup, you are real concerned, buddy.   imagine if the founding fathers were sellouts like yourself.   

[Swampman]

How many times to I have to explain why I sold my para-military rifles?  I openly talk down to those who only think of themselves.  Our founding fathers didn't want this country to be anything like it is.  They wouldn't even recognize what it's become.  Our founding fathers were willing to do what was best for the country.

That's an alien concept to folks like yourself.

We will lose our 2nd Ammendment rights and soon.  I just want to pospone that as long as possible.  That's why I vote Republican.

[billy_56081]

   So is anyone here fed up enough to start a revolution? Blood is the fertilizer of change. If I were as upset as some of the people on this forum claim to be I would start the revolution on my own. I think it is time you guys either start biting or stop barking.

[myronman3]

   So is anyone here fed up enough to start a revolution? Blood is the fertilizer of change. If I were as upset as some of the people on this forum claim to be I would start the revolution on my own. I think it is time you guys either start biting or stop barking.

who made you the bark police?   

[myronman3]

We will lose our 2nd Ammendment rights and soon.  I just want to pospone that as long as possible.  That's why I vote Republican.

coming from a blind follower and roll-over-artist like yourself, that doesnt mean much to anyone. 

[Swampman]

I'm willing to follow a good man that's doing an excellent job.  I'm smart enough to know when to cut my losses.  That makes me up on you by at least 2.

[lrs]

   So is anyone here fed up enough to start a revolution? Blood is the fertilizer of change. If I were as upset as some of the people on this forum claim to be I would start the revolution on my own. I think it is time you guys either start biting or stop barking.

I think it's coming, sooner or later.   It will not matter if you are one of the upset or not.  I think we will eventually be cornered into it, and forced to do something.
Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am.

[Swampman]

I gotta get me a tinfoil hat.

[lrs]

Forgiveness please, but what is this tinfoil hat business?

[ironglow]

  Hey guiys; let's cut Prez Bush just a little slack ! I also am disappointed in his spending habits and his efforts to be "bi-partisan' with the likes of old Teddy. That being said, let's look at what he has been faced with:

  1) Took the job just as we were coming into a mild recession (that the biased media hid).

  2) Hardly in office when we were hit with the worst attack ever upon US soil..by the most devious enemy ever.

  3) Hit with probably the most costly hurricane & flood in modern US history.

 4)  Two years ago, got presented with a congressional majority that made it their business to sabotage every good thing he tried to do.
   This same congress it appears, started planning for this financial collapse to be their "October surprise".

 5) More recently, our nation got hit with two devastating hurricanes..

     Now, "W" is far from perfect, but I doubt that faced with the same challenges, Clinton, Gore, Kerry or Obama could have come off
 anywhere near as well.  Let's be honest about it !

[ironglow]

TM;
   I have of course worked for other than "we the people"..but I have never been blamed for starting a hurricane or intentionally allowing parts of a city to drown. I have never worked where I had nearly 300 co-workers (congress) watching every detail of everything I did....and if they didn't find anything wrong..proceeded to make things up.
   I was not ever saddled (unfairly) with idiots trying to blame me for the deaths at the WTC. I never had to work where about half the voters in the nation HATED me with a completely irrational hatred..and used all the powers of a biased media in an attempt to destroy me...without regard as to what happened to our country.
  Again, cut some slack....

[Dee]

I gotta get me a tinfoil hat.

Why? You already have a pointed one.

[Swampman]

Now Dee, don't be rude when the adults are talking.

I think the President has done a pretty good job.  We are fixin' to get one that's 10 times worse.

[Dee]

Now Dee, don't be rude when the adults are talking.

Why not Swampy? You get to act silly from you padded cell when their talking. Say! How do you type with that straight jacket on? Did you get an arm out, or are you using the point on your dunc's hat?

I think the President has done a pretty good job.  We are fixin' to get one that's 10 times worse.

[Dixie Dude]

TM7 you wanted to know where I got some of my information, well here is some.  Dems are mostly to blame. 

While the media is very quick to blame the recent financial crisis on Republicans in general and Bush in particular there are some important points that I think should be kept in mind when we look at how we arrived at this point....


1. The Clinton Administration FORCED banks to lend in poor areas and used aggressive policing tactics to punish banks that didn’t make loans to people even though those people had absolutely no way to pay back the loans. (Even the NY Times reported this back in 1995: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E2DE1639F932A05753C1A963958260)

2. Franklin Raines was the head of Fannie Mae from 1999 to 2004 and he made $90 Million in bonuses taken from the company.

3. Fannie Mae overstated earnings to the tune of $10.6 BILLION.

4. Raines had to pay BACK $24Million from his bonuses due to the accounting FRAUD!!!!

5. Raines has given $91,500 of his own money to Democratic candidates over the past 20 years and $5,000 to Republicans. (http://www.newsmeat.com/ceo_political_donations/Franklin_Raines.php)

6. Obama has received $112,000 from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae employees. Since 2005 John McCain has received $16,4000 (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-trailmoney9-2008sep09,0,1969729.story?track=rss)

7. Since 2004 Obama has received $126,349 from Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac employees and PAC’s, second only to Chris Dodd the Democratic Chairman of the Senate banking committee. (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html)

8. In 2005 JOHN McCAIN ON THE FLOOR OF THE US SENATE SAID “For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – known as government-sponsored entities or GSEs – and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market," (this was in testimony on the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 which was never passed.) (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/record.xpd?id=109-s20060525-16&bill=s109-190)

9. Franklin Raines predecessor at Fannie Mae was James Johnson who ran Fannie Mae from 1991-1998, his 1998 bonus was $1.9 Million (which was a result of rigged earnings). He got preferential treatment on personal loans totaling $7.7Million from Countrywide one of Fannie Mae’s biggest customers (http://www.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB121279970984353933.html). From 2001 and 2006 he got an additional $3.3Million from Fannie Mae.

10. Obama picked HIM to be on his VP vetting team until the press and Republicans cried foul (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=auHZ.1T7m1gw&refer=home

11. While the Obama camp has now stated that Raines is NOT an advisor to Obama this is new (their denial). The Washington Post ran a story about Obama being an advisor a couple of years ago and the Obama camp said nothing. I will leave it to you to decide if he was or is an advisor.

Bush had terrorism and a war going on.  Economy was working fine at the time so not much attention was paid to it. 

[myronman3]

dont kid yourself.   both parties have plenty of blame to bear; as well as the jackass citizens who knowingly took out loans for way more than they could even hope to cover.  dont hear much about that, do we? 
  yup, there is plenty of blame to go around.  and instead of finger pointing,  each of us should take our rightful share. 
  my ex used to live that way, and when i was with her,  i got sucked into that way of living.  it isnt any fun.  several years into it i kept trying to get out of that lifestyle of slavery, but she kept shooting holes in the boat faster than i could  bail water.   funny thing is once i took over the finances, stuff started falling into place for me.  she got mad and left me with two small kids and a stack of bills.  it isnt always easy, but we are making progress.  slowly but surely i am getting ahead. 
   it all comes down to personal decisions and how we choose to live our lives each and every day.

[Graybeard]

Mrs. GB is prone to watching shows on I reckon it's the Gardening Channel where they show mostly relatively young folks out looking for a new home to buy. Just yesterday when I went in to see what was coming on for the night she had it on such a show and while I was running thru the line up to see what was on in a smaller box up in the upper right hand corner of the screen that show kept running so I was more listening than watching but it was I think a perfect example of what has created this housing crisis.

The couple had a budget of roughly a half million dollars to buy their new home so the story line of the show went. I cannot even imagine paying a half million for a home as it generally means at least three times whatever you borrow by the time you get it paid off. I'm 63 years old and in my entire life all my income combined to date would not have paid off such a loan not even close.

At any rate they ended up chosing a home smaller than mine and with a single (yeah only ONE) bathroom. The asking price on it was $399,000 and to that they had to add a bit over $100,000 for the needed renovations to bring it up to their satisfaction. I didn't catch where they lived but I assume California but am not sure. It was in an urban or suburban setting so had only a tiny lot to go with it and was from appearances tho they really never said likely in the 1200-1400 at most square foot size with a single bathroom even after that $100,000 renovation.

No way under the sun is such a home worth even a quarter of that much I don't care where it sits. How the hell can a young couple even if both work afford such a place? Hell I only paid $75,000 for my almost new larger than theirs 3 bedroom and two bath home sitting on almost six acres of land and that was in 1994 just before I retired.

People taking on such huge mortgages are why the housing crash has happened. It has run prices on homes up to ridiculous levels that are just not sustainable and I just cannot imagine how they can ever hope to pay off such a home. I couldn't even pay interest on such a loan and likely my total income isn't enough to cover interest alone on it.

[Swampman]

A small very modest home here on 1/5 of an acre will cost about $200,000.00.  That's down about $100,000.00 from what it was 16 months ago.

5 years ago, I bought my brand new home for $135,000.00.  At the peak it was worth $290,000.00.  Now it's worth about $190,000.00.

I'm really glad I sold & bought when I did.  I make double payments.  I don't owe much on it now.  The only problem is that I want to move to TN or NC.

[Dee]

TM7, I believe Rick was getting the money ($15,000.00 per month) from Freddie Mac, not both. But you analogy is correct in it's content. Rick had to quit taking it, along with stopping his lobbying McCain, when he became McCain's Campaign Mgr. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
In his lobbying career he was, and is very close to McCain.