Core-Lokts according to jvs

[AtlLaw]

Not wanting to hijack a thread over there in the Bolt action rifles forum, I'll post this here as it deals with a reloading component.

jvs made these comments about Noslers and Core-Lokts:

"Noslers can tend to be a little erratic in some calibers and twists.  Almost like trying to get Core-Lokts to shoot tight.  Most of the time, it ain't gonna happen."

and further:

"Don't get me wrong, I like Core-Lokts.  I use them all of the time for Whitetail.  Noslers have a place too, but those types are not known in my parts to be the most accurate, bullet performance overides the accuracy problem in my book.  Noslers can blow the same size hole at just about the same accuracy as Core-Lokts, but pinpoint accuracy is the price you pay for bullet performance in most cases.  It is tough to get groups under 2" at 100 yds with Core-Lokts.   It can happen, but it isn't likely." 

and lastly:

"No doubt if you hit something with a Nosler Partition or Core-Lokt, it's going down with wounds the size of a softball.  Just don't expect to thread the needle."

Now I don't want to start another 243 type discussion... who am I kidding!  Of course I do!     But I have evolved into using CL's almost exclusively.  Before that it was Noslers and I still have 100's of different bullets from Speer, Sierra, Winchester, Hornedy and Nosler sitting around.  But when I start working up a load now it's usually with CL's and I have never felt short changed in the accuracy area by doing so!

Does anyone else think Nosler and CL hunting bullets are noticeably less accurate then other brands?

[kyelkhunter3006]

That's a "loaded" question, isn't it?     Yeah, that was cheesy.

Anyway, I've found them to be as accurate as any other bullet for me.  I shoot factory ammo exclusively.  The caveat is that I don't expect EVERY bullet in EVERY gun to produce groups you can cover with a dime.

1st in 30-06's (the caliber I have the most experience with). 

While I don't shoot them personally, I've seen exceptional groups from the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 168gr 30-06.  It seems that every gun I've seen them used in shoots tiny groups, from Ruger 77's to Winchesters, and Rem. 700 and 710's.  The only gun I've seen that won't shoot them is my 7400. 

Same thing with the 180gr Accu-Bond and the old 180gr Failsafe loads (not a Nosler bullet, but oh well).  I had a Rem. 700 that would put ten of the Accu's in a group less than 1".  My old Win. M70 would put 5 of the Failsafes in 5/8" all day long.

These same guns also shot very well with the Rem CL, especially the 165gr load.  Not all groups were bugholes, but all of them were under 2".  The 165gr load was the 3nd most accurate in my 7400 30-06 at just under 1.5".  The Hornady 150gr SST is the most accurate at under 1" and the 180gr Failsafe is just over 1".  I've had 8 different 30-06's and the 165gr CL was always in the running until I found THE load for a particular gun.  It wasn't ever the most accurate, but I'd have to rate it as probably the most consistent.

2nd in .308 (the next caliber I've got the most experience with)

The 150gr Rem CL is the most accurate factory load I've used in my .308's other than Federal 168gr Match ammo and some Winchester LE only match ammo.  That would be 1 Vanguard Varmint Special, 1 Savage 16 Weather Warrior (the old style stiff fluted barrel with the break on it), 2 Savage 10FP Tacticals (one 20", one 26"), a Remington 700 LTR (it was the only bullet that would shoot under 2", that gun SUCKED, but that's another story) and a H&R Ultra 22" and a couple of Rem. 700 ADL's.  All of the other guns shot the CL under an inch, and in the Savage 16, it shot less than 1/2" consistently (better than the match ammo).

3rd in 25-06 (I've had two)

The only load I've ever used in either of my 25-06's is the 120gr CL.  I think that this load for the 25-06 may be close to perfection.  In a H&R Ultra it averaged around 3/4", best group with it was less than 1/2".  In an Encore, it was less than an inch all day long.  Between my friend and I, we've taken probably 8 deer with the load, which isn't a huge number, but it was enough to totally hook me on it.  Every deer we've shot has been a complete pass through, regardless of the angle and distance, whether buck or doe.  Biggest deer was about 175lbs, quartering on, at about 75yds.  Entered right in front of the shoulder and exited the rear ham.  What else can you ask for? 

Man, typing that got me all excited about another 25-06, one of those S&W I-Bolts is looking might good right now.....

4th in .243

Oh yeah, let the controversy begin.  I've had three bolt action .243's and I've killed deer with all of them, as have friends who borrowed them.  Again, groups  of 1" or less have been the norm, from three M70's and one Encore.  Performance hasn't been at the level of the 25-06, but we've not lost any deer because of them.  Most of the deer were bang flops.  We tracked a 6pt for about 100yds, but my friends shot wasn't perfect....

That's been my experience with them.  Honestly, I don't shoot much of the Nosler's, as locally, any of the makers premium loads with them, as well as Federal ammo (the most Nosler loads??) isn't readily available unless I want to drive 40 miles to Bass Pro Shops.  I shoot a lot of Hornady and have found it to be probably the most consistently accurate ammo in my guns.  But the Remington CL is usually right there too, more than good enough to suit my needs 95% of the time.  And EVERYONE around here that sells ammo carries it, from Wal-Mart to Auntie Em's Corner store, so I never have to worry about availability.

[charles p]

I've had lots of rifles and not one would shoot Nosler Partitions into a tight group.  They would do great with Ballistic Tips.

I really like CoreLokts.  On whitetail, they do everything I expect.  No other bullet is as consistent for me.

To each his own.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive allways stuggled to get accuracy with a partition. Ive got exactly one gun that shoots them well and thats a 8mag bdl rem. Corelocks on the other hand have allways been one of my favorite bullets. There to me about the ideal combination of accuracy and bullet performance. they may not give the guilt edged accuracy that sierra or nos bt give but there close enough and a much better bullet on game.

[Graybeard]

Does anyone else think Nosler and CL hunting bullets are noticeably less accurate then other brands?

No that certainly IS NOT my personal experience. Acrossed the board I'd say that Remington bullets are as accurate as any other brand. Sierra has a justly deserved reputation for accuracy and their match bullets certainly live up to it but I don't feel their hunting ammo is any more or less accurate than others. Nosler BTs are generally some of the most accurate bullets made. I've never had any problem getting PTs to shoot as accurately in my guns as the guns shoot with any other brand or type of bullet either.

In fact the ONLY brand I've never been able to get to shoot good groups is Barnes. I've tried them in several calibers in numerous handguns and rifles and so far have not found a load in any that was accurate enough to justify taking hunting so I've not been able to check their on game performance first hand. I think the best group I've ever gotten from any Barnes bullet in any rifle was a bit over 2" for three shots at 100 using a TC Custom Shop 21" bull barrel in 6 TCU. I was thinking of trying it on game but the bullet was a bit light for caliber and the round certainly was in my opinion very marginal so I just never did take it deer hunting with me.

[BRL]

CL's are the only bullet I have hunting experience with because they are the most accurate factory round in my Rem 7400 in .30-06. They have performed flawlessly in all hunting situations. At the range I have compared them to standard loads from Federal/Fusion, Winchester and Hornady. I've only tested the 150 grain and 180 grain loads. Both bullet weights saw best groups from the CL's. But, I don't do any match shooting and don't really "tune" for accuracy. I shoot primarily to practice for hunting (and fun). A 2" group is just fine with me.   

[rickt300]

My 7x57 shot 2 inch groups with 140 grain Corelokts and 1 1/2 inch groups with Nosler Partitions of the same weight. With 150 grain Ballistic Tips it shoots groups of the ragged hole variety. My 7MM RM and 270 shoot Patitions extremely well as they do Corelokts. I had a 300 Winchester Magnum that would not shoot 200 grain Partitions at all, 4 inch groups. It would however put 3 touching with 150 grain Corelokt factory loads. I think it is an individual rifle thing myself.

[jlchucker]

At one time, about 10 years ago, a late friend of mine bought some 150 gr Corelocts in bulk, to load up some 30-06 hunting rounds.  He bought a box of 500.  Being the kind of guy who always needed something to do when not reloading, shooting, flyfishing, tying flies, etc. he proceeded to mike every slug!  Then he weighed every one.  While killing all of this time, he found several minor discrepancies--but none that stopped him from loading ammo that shot into 1 inch at 100 yd.  My own only complaint with Corelocts is that the price lately seems to be very high compared to what it used to be. That having been said, It's my jacketed bullet of choice of 35 Remington, and for 30-30's that I use in my Marlins. Last year I won a Browning 243 in a gun club raffle, and it too does pretty well with Coreloct 100 grainers.  In my own experience (and I haven't weighed and measured boxfuls of each like my friend did) the Corelocts are every bit as good as Hornaday bullets for my own hunting and shooting purposes.

[AtlLaw]

It seems everyone's experience mirrors my own.  So far at least...     

I consider myself a .75 inch (@100 yds) shooter... from sandbags on a very good day.      That means when I work up a load any group under that size (from a rifle capable of that level of accuracy) is more because of the alignment of the planets then my ability.  So what I am looking for is a load that consistently groups at the limit of my (perceived) ability... but I'll settle for the underside of one inch.  And, I don't get real excited if a group occasionally goes inside .50 or get real worried if every once in a while one exceeds 1.00 inch.

After switching from Nosler BT's to Core-Lokts I found no reason to revise the above expectations.  I cannot tell the difference between the 2 and I always considered the BT one of the most accurate bullets on the market.

As an aside, I have a very high opinion of Sierra bullets; that's what I have/use for 5.56/.30 cal match rounds.  But if I ever buy their hunting bullets, I can't resist the siren call of their sleek boat tails.  And, unfortunately, it has been my experience that they tend to shed their jackets soon after impact on game.  That may be fine for some people, but I like a hole going in and a bigger one going out!   

Now I don't know the basis for jvs's opinion, but I advised him I had started this thread.   

[wncchester]

"Does anyone else think Nosler and CL hunting bullets are noticeably less accurate then other brands?"

On average, there is not much difference between hunting bullet makers and not a whole lot of difference between a hunting bullet that shoots well in your rifle and a target bullet.  What, maybe a quarter of an inch at 100 yards?  No big game walking or flying will know the differnce if a round hits an eight of an inch further from the point of aim at 100 yards. 

I often read of someone who stoutly professes  he is going for accuracy over terminal performance, or words to that effect, and it makes me wonder what world they live in.  That would make sense if the groups were two or three times larger with hunters but that's not normally the case.  That kind of difference isn't due to not using a target bullet, it's due to assembling a lousy load!  Target bullets tend to have rotten terminal performance and gain very little in accuracy to a well develped load with a true hunting bullet. 

[flintlock]

I've had the same .243 since 1980 and have patterened and killed deer with at least 10 different factory loadings...Funny thing, CoreLokts are more consistant than any other that I have found and I have killed at least 85 deer with them...

A few years ago I found that my rifle was throwing every 3rd or 5th shot out of the group with the Federal Premium 85gr HPBT...I pulled out a box of CoreLokts that were bought in the late 80s...Shot 3 shots you could cover with a quarter...The next day, I bought a new box of CoreLokts, went to the range and shot, they shot exactly the same...

Since then, I've bought 10 more boxes and put them away for a rainy day...

I've really tried to use and like the fancy, "premium" bullets...Guess I'm beginning to realize that they just aren't needed...

[jvs]

I often wonder how things get twisted like a pair of cheap shorts.  Then I see who instigated this one and things become clear.   I think it's pretty obvious that I never insinuated that Core-Lokts wouldn't put meat on the table.  What I did say is that in my experience Core-Lokts are not as accurate as some other bullets.  By that I mean, I don't expect Core-Lokts to group at under 1 1/2" or so, with even 2" + is ok.  Same thing with Nosler Partitions.  Does that mean your experience has been the same?  NOT !  And if you ever used a BT for hunting, you have alot more experience that I do.  BT's are not a hunting bullet IMO.

Nosler was the rage 20 years ago, it was also Core-Lokts that got alot of attention 20 to 30  yrs ago.  Now the tide is flowing towards Hornady Spire Points.  Either one is ok, but in my opinion the Spire Points hold the edge right now. 

It's not that CL''s or Noslers won't perform and do it within respectable accuracy, but my experience is the Spire Points are the winners now on both performance and accuracy.  That could change again at any time if I find something that I believe is better.  Just like anybody else.

[Graybeard]

I consider myself a .75 inch (@100 yds) shooter... from sandbags on a very good day.

 

Grass Hopper perhaps I need to take you under my wing and teach you to shoot. 

Seriously I have shot I suppose hundreds of groups in the .2s and .3s and a few down in the .1s using Remington varmint rifles bone stock except for the addition of a scope and reducing the trigger pull. I've shot a few in the quarter inch range using TC handguns even. With the Varmint rifles I'm talking 5 shot and with big game hunting guns 3 shot groups. I have no doubts that if a rifle can shoot I can make it do so.

Some times I really do wonder about folks complaining about poor accuracy regardless of what it's with in regard just how well they can shoot. But I know none here that well so can merely speculate. I do know from personal experience that not every barrel likes every bullet or load. Just the way life is ya gotta work with them to find what they wanna be fed. Then ya gotta feed it to them if ya want decent accuracy. Barnes bullets are the one exception I just cannot make them shoot or have not yet been able to in anythng I've owned. I'd be happy to take lessons from anyone who claims they can make them shoot but ONLY after they prove to me in person they really can.

For a big game rifle it's rare that I can't find several loads both factory and reloads that will not shoot three bullets into a group of less than an inch at least much of the time. Seldom will any do it EVERY TIME. But for me if one keeps pretty much all it's groups under 1.5" at 100 yards (say 80% plus of the time) and none goes over 2" then it's really adequate for the hunting I actually do and have done. So far my longest shot on big game was around 200 yards guesstimated not lasered. I feel quite comfortable shooting game to 300 yards or maybe a tad more IF I know the range precisely, have a good solid rest and at that time me and the rifle are steady on target. Even a 1.5" grouping gun is up to that task but I feel a lot more comfortable with one that I know much of the time is an under 1" grouping gun instead.

As a whole I do not feel Core-loct bullets to be any less accurate than any other hunting bullet on the market. Same applies to Nosler PTs. Sure your load with them in your rifle might fall short but that's NOT the fault of the bullet but rather either the shooter, the load or the barrel they are being pushed down. The bullets are accurate in an accurate barrel with a load that barrel likes when fired by a shooter up to the chore. The same applies to any and all cup and core bullets I'm aware of on the market today. They can be made to shoot when you have an accurate rifle and find an accurate load for it.

[AtlLaw]

I often wonder how things get twisted like a pair of cheap shorts.

 

Then I see who instigated this one and things become clear.

 

[AtlLaw]

Grass Hopper perhaps I need to take you under my wing and teach you to shoot. 

Naw, You'd just get frustrated 'cause I couldn't do right, bein as I'm so old and shakey and all, then you'd start slappin me up side the head and I'd start shakin even more and shoot even worse...    Then I'd feel real bad about myself an run off to find me some freshly run thru a radiator, home made North Alabama corn likker, and go blind and you'd say I just wasn't concentratin and whoop up on me some more... 

[Catfish]

I have never hunted game with a rifle that I felt core lock or pratiions were nessary so my experance with them is limited and only on paper. That said I have never had any more trouble with the core locks getting good groups than with other hunting bullets. As for Nosler Partions I`ve never been able to get them to shoot in the 2 guns I`ve tried them in.

[Dand]

I use Nosler Partitions extensively in my 300 win mag - the 180 spire with 70-73 gr of various types of 4831 powders (IMR my favorite) and get excellent accuracy - .75 to 1.25 - oops better sign up for GB accuracy class. I practice mostly with Speer Hot Core 180s and the same amount of 4831 powder and get as good, sometimes better accuracy as the Pts. To save money I have used 180 CL for practice loads.  They shoot as well as my preferred brands - good enough for practice that I haven't bothered to fine tune for them.  And I'm confident enough in them that I sometimes carry them as spare ammo on a hunt.

Early on I wasn't able to get my 300 to like 180 spire Hornady so haven't tried them in years.  I have had equal accuracy with the old Barnes X but not so well with recent tries with Barnes XLC and haven't tried the TSX.

Some of my best shooting ever in the 300 was with of course the Sierra 168 match and 165  BT Spires when it was brand new - but since I hunt in big brown bear country, I always feel better carrying 180 gr bullets and the partition really adds to my confidence if things get hairy.

The very best bullet I have had for accuracy was the 180 Ballistic Tips and a load of H450 I arbitrarily picked to try. It was sub .5 to .6 for several groups.  Have tried other 180 gr bullets with the H450 and they haven't done as well.  Might have been a really good day for me that one time too.

The very worst bullet I have used in my 300 were some 180  Fail Safe that I got as a "bargain".  In mild test loads they shot fine so I cranked up the powder 1.5 grains and went hunting. Lost a moose that I knocked over then it got up and ran off when I was approaching it and couldn't see it.  Another season thinking I'd just screwed up the previous year's shot, I hit another moose with the same load.  I saw the bullet hit way high from where I aimed (rested), I staggered it but it kept running around. My second round in the chamber was either a corelock or Speer and I nailed it in the ribs. Since the animal was revved up it didn't go down right away and I fired 2 more Fail safe rounds that didn't go where they were supposed to but the moose was down for good anyway.  Took the rest of the FS ammo to the range and my screw-up - that extra 1.5 gr made groups go from 1.5 inch at 100 to about 6"-7" at 100 - add that group difference to the excitement of a hunt and look out!! Then I looked at the bullet box more carefully and found a notice that they were designed for muzzle velocities BELOW 2700 fps!!!  It WAS my screw up to over look the limitations of those bullets and to not check accuracy after increasing powder.  I shelved the rest of those bullets in case I get a 308 some day.

30-06 Same basic practice (180 Part, CL, Hot Core) and 54-55 gr of IMR 4350 - this gun has a very rough bore and is more of a 1- 1.5+ rifle. One difference is this rifle LIKES the 180 Hornady spire and I have shot a lot of them in it.

So I guess we're splitting frog's hair here but I'd say I get good accuracy out of Nosler partitions and Corelocks. If I was in a match I'd be using ballistic tips or Sierra match bullets.  But a lot of my partion groups are very very close to what I got with the Sierras.

Atl - enjoyed your scenario of learning to shoot w GB - good chuckles there.

[LONGTOM]

I think I will go with GB on this one.
I too have tried about all of the commercial brands except Barnes and can honestly say I have had good ones and bad ones. Not saying the ammo is bad, just depends on what the gun likes. I have a pre 64 (1953) model 70 featherweight that will shoot Win & Rem 130 & 150 grainers one right after the other and all 4 will be within 1.5" to 2" all day if I do my part. My TC contender hates Rem but my model 70 sporter has cut holes with them. I could go on and on but the fact is most all ammo will shot far better than we can shot them in the right gun!


LONGTOM

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont know guys. Ive been away from shooting and hunting with rilfles so long now that theres 100s of bullets out there that i havent tried. I guess it makes me wonder how guys actually killed things with rilfles 20 years ago! I shot a boat load of partitions when they first came out and they never impressed me. They werent that accurate and performance on deer sized animals never impressed me. I also used to load a pile of speer grand slams and to me it was a much better bullet. I shake my head at all of this new crap. Most of it is nothing but a gimmic to get a guy to drop more money. There isnt an animal in the US that cant be dropped by a corelock or any other conventional bullet if the shot is good. They all want you to think there making your gun into something it aint. If i want more power then a 243 ill buy an o6 and if i need more then that ill take out my 338. Now the fancy boy bullets have even leached there way into lever guns and pistols. I havent killed an animal with a pistol or rifle in the last 10 years with anything but a cast bullet. Guess im lucky no one told the deer up here that that there not allowed to die unless some technilogical wizz that can quote ballistic tables and uses some high tech gun and load shoots them!

[myronman3]

Does anyone else think Nosler and CL hunting bullets are noticeably less accurate then other brands?

not in my experience. 

[Doe Dumper]

CL's have done great for me. They are always the first load I try in a new gun and almost without fail end up being extremely accurate. Game performance has always been outstanding for me. The only gun I have tried the NP's (150gr) in (700adl .270) would group the Fed Prems to slightly less than an inch and my handloads would do just a tad better so I was satisfied with them as well. I just dont hunt anything that requires a Nosler Part. I have bought several boxes of cl's to reload as they are cheap to shoot and do everything I ask of a bullet.

[dakotashooter2]

It is tough to get groups under 2" at 100 yds with Core-Lokts. 

  What a statement!!!!!!! I shoot them in 2 calibers from 3 different guns (off the shelf) and would have to work hard on a load to get them to shoot OVER about 1 1/2".  As a matter of fact I have often shot well under 2" testing loads with 3 or four different powders and charges.

[TOWCOBRA1]

I put together 3 each of 3 different 150 gr 30-06 bullets using 52 gr of IMR 4064 for testing. Hornady BTSP, Hornady SST, and REM Cor-Loc PSP, all shot from a Rem 700 sporter 22" bbl (jewell trigger) at 100 yds. BTSP were 1 3/4" group, SST were 1" group, Cor-Loc PSP were 3/8" group. (2 shots in 1 ragged hole and the other 3/4" away). This is a no-brainer for me. Spend more $$ if you want to.
John A.

[bilmac]

I think a lot of us started using core lokts when you could save some $ by buying them bulk. There was no doubt that they are good game takers, and since you bought them 500 at a time, it was logical to spend the time and effort to find very good loads for them. Maybe the poor accuracy people get with partitions is because they cost twice as much as most bullets(although I think that a bullet that complicated is inherently more difficult to make accurately)

Near as I have been able to tell the great 500 at a time deals are gone, but Remington sure made a bunch of converts. Hey, Hornaday, Speer, Sierra take a lesson from them smart fellers at Remington and give us some good deals, and we'll be happy as clams making the best possible ammunition that can be made with your stuff. We may even sing praises about your bullets when we find good ways to shoot them.

[Dave in WV]

My Ruger MKII .243 shot 1" three shot groups with factory 100gr Core-Lokts. I load 100gr Core-Lokts for it and it does even better. I had a Rem 760 pump I loaded 165gr Core-Lokts for and it shot MOA or better. I load 140gr Core-Lokts for my Rem 7600 and it shoots 1.25" three shot groups. I haven't tried to improve the load since it shoots almost exactly to the same zero as factory ammo.

[wild willy]

( two shots in one ragged and the other 3/4' away = 3/8   

[ihookem]

They were very accurate in my 22-250's but the Sierra were a little better.  My .270 pump shot 1 1/2 "  and my bolt shoots the same. Good enough for hunting. Yes the bulk bullet days are gone I bought a 1000 pack for 73 bucks 15 yrs ago from Midway.

[qajaq59]

You can still buy in bulk, but the prices sure aren't what they used to be!

[Swampman]

Core-Lokts are pretty much all I use.  I suppose if I was going after something really tough/big I might consider another bullet.  I had bullet failures with the Nosler BT, but they shot well enough.

I prefer Remington products over all the rest.  They are reasonably priced and they work.

[warrior1]

for rifle corlokts are it. you can go into just about any store that carrys ammo and more than likely the bulk of that ammo is remington.

for reloading i like the 180s in a 308 and the the 130 s in 270,and 140s in 7mms.