Author Topic: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?  (Read 5451 times)

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Offline Hardcase

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Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« on: October 08, 2008, 02:35:29 PM »
I'm thinking about ordering some Hornady TAP Personal Defense Ammunition .223 .75 gr for my wife to deer hunt with. Has anyone had any experience with this ammo?
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Offline jammer308

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 02:12:36 PM »
Not tap ammo, but a friend took a nice sized buck last year with his .223 using 70 or 77gr winchester Balistic Silver tips. Deer was hit right where you're supposed to hit em at 80-100 yrds out, and ran another 60 before expiring. When we butchered it, we found 3 seperate fragments on the opposite shoulder and side. If your wife is an experienced shooter/hunter I don;t see a problem with your ammo choice within reasonable range and a broadside, boiler room hit. If she's not that experienced, I'd have to suggest something bigger. To be fair to the deer of course.

If she uses the .223, let us know what happens o.k.?

Offline 1sourdough

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 02:53:03 AM »
 I would think that 75grn ammo would like a faster twist barrel to stabilize, like 1/8 or 1/7? Depending on your rifling a 60 grn partition would be an option. Plenty of practice before hand and carefully chosen shots would be helpful.
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Offline yooper77

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 03:27:29 AM »
I would say NO, TAP For Personal Defense not deer.  Is this a hollow point bullet or full metal jacket?  Either way, its not designed to take or to be used for big game.  If its a full metal jacket then it's illegal for hunting big game.

100 grain bullet out of a 243 Winchester will serve her better that any bullet out of a 223 Remington.

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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 05:26:00 AM »
I would say NO, TAP For Personal Defense not deer.  Is this a hollow point bullet or full metal jacket?  Either way, its not designed to take or to be used for big game.  If its a full metal jacket then it's illegal for hunting big game.

100 grain bullet out of a 243 Winchester will serve her better that any bullet out of a 223 Remington.

yooper77
Agreed.  The .223 for deer thing has been hammered to death here.  Check some old threads so we don't need to rehash the arguments. 

.243 or bigger.

Offline kody

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 03:53:03 PM »
 It has been imbedded in me for a lifetime of hunting to use a proper caliber to hunt deer to prevent waste in slow death for an animal ,loss of the target animal,increase in effort to harvest the target animal etc. A reliably capable caliber was mandated for a minimum . .410 slugs werent allowed ,25-35 cal.,M1 carbineand all .22 calibers were excluded in the state of Minnesota. 2 years ago M1 carbines were allowed ,probably because heavy pistols became legal for big game. Big game in Minnesota includes Moose ,elk ,bear and deer. This was followed this year by the inclusion of centerfire 22s--- for MOOSE???   ELK  ???  Amazing how the stopping power of those cartridges have increased in 2 years without any change in the bullet velocities or foot pounds of energy available . A few afficioanadoes , capable or not have altered a time and fact proven rule to suit their wishes to include a favorite caliber of theirs into the legal caliber status. Totally selfish . What ever happened to the people selected to do their best for the sport of hunting in all respects. It looks like the whole world is succuming to the greedy  ME FIRST attitude . At the same time the anti-hunters are provided with proof of those people's greed and lack of concern and tarring those who do care with the same brush!    Ken   

Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 02:08:18 AM »
Most barrels out there are 1-9 or slower. This leaves very few acceptable rounds. For non reloading federal tactical and win power point 64 gr. If you can find premium loads in partition, sierra game king, trophy bonded bear claw and barnes tsx, all are fine.
 For reloads the best is 62 gr tsx, then 55 gr bear claws, then 60 gr partitions, then win pp 64 gr and finally 55 gr sierra game kings.
 All these were tested on sheep, for cost effectiveness settled on win 64 gr power point. Have taken 7 whitetail with this one. 2 whitetail with the tsx all were one shot high lung shots. Both bullets exited.
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Offline yooper77

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 03:38:14 AM »
I would say NO, TAP For Personal Defense not deer.  Is this a hollow point bullet or full metal jacket?  Either way, its not designed to take or to be used for big game.  If its a full metal jacket then it's illegal for hunting big game.

100 grain bullet out of a 243 Winchester will serve her better that any bullet out of a 223 Remington.

yooper77
Agreed.  The .223 for deer thing has been hammered to death here.  Check some old threads so we don't need to rehash the arguments. 

.243 or bigger.

I disagree, its the absolute perfect opportunity to discuss not argue about the reasoning behind using 22 caliber center fire cartridges for taking big game.

This is the entire purpose of these forums is to give your own experiences along with likes and dislikes, from which I will continue to do so.

yooper77


Offline Russ Jerome

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 07:46:07 PM »
60-65 grain TSX, Power Point, Nosler, Partians, Game King ect.

The internal damage from the above rounds is fatal in short
order under 100yrds, swift death at 150yrds but may run a
little but die quickly. I would'nt have her shoot beyond that unless
she is confident with shot placement, shoulders will slow up the
little bullets and that could possible lead to an ugly day for all.

Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 11:40:35 AM »
Pics of wife's deers taken from 10 yards to 312 yards .223 64 gr win power point, 16" AR.
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Offline yooper77

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 12:41:24 PM »
Excellent deer, nice job.

yooper77

Offline backstrap

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 04:26:37 PM »
U dont have to have those high premium bullets to kill a deer with a 223,just get u some factory 55gr remington coreloks and keep her shoots 100yards or less and u will have meat in the frezzer.my son shot a big doe a few years ago about 60 yards useing my H&R 223 with cheap 55gr wolf hollow point ammo and she ran 20 yards and was done u just have to make a good shot in the heart and long area.it dont take a speacial bullet to kill a deer
1 shot 1 kill

Offline Sweet 6.5

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 06:12:38 PM »
Pics of wife's deers taken from 10 yards to 312 yards .223 64 gr win power point, 16" AR.

 ???

I can't see a bullet hole going in or going out!
Where does she shoot them?

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Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 06:42:15 PM »
She takes high lung shots. You have to brush the hair back to see the holes. They are .22 in and .45 out. All had an exit.  The one on the tractor was the long shot, it ran 50 yards. The one on the hill, she was on top of the hill, he fell in his tracks. The other was 135 yards from her stand, ran 30 yards.
Molon labe

Offline JonD.

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2008, 01:07:22 PM »
I bought my 9 yr old a Handi Rifle in .223 for deer simply because I was afraid of recoil for her, and I didn't want to scare her away from shooting and hunting. She took her first deer with it last year using 64 grain Winchester Power Points placing one in the lung area and it made one jump and went down. But I will say that I am still a little uneasy about the small caliber and since she is now used to shooting and has since shot some bigger calibers, I intend to get her a bigger barrel for it, most likely a 7mm-08.

Offline dks7895

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 06:27:22 AM »
I shot a doe @ 75 yards with a 223 using Hornady 55gr SP.  Double lung shot = dead deer.  Keep it under 100 yards with a good shot and it's fine.  I have heard good things about the 64gr Power Points too.
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Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 07:12:57 AM »
I don't know enough about the TAP round to say.  I do know that a Nosler partition, a Barnes TSX, and the new Federal Fusion bullet will all kill a deer with good penitration, and no bullet failure.  I have seen varmint bullets work great on broadside lung hits where they slip in between the ribs and explode the lungs.  I have also seen em fail when they hit bone.  Stick to the 3 slugs I mentioned above, and you will be good.  That said, if you have something like a 243 available, she should use it, with a premium bullet.  The 223 is a good round in the hands of an experienced hunter who knows his rifle and ammo, and knows when to shoot, and when not....

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline emsemt911

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2009, 05:32:59 PM »
NEVER USE TAP for deer.  Ammo is game specific and TAP is NOT designed to be a hunting round.
I have used my .223 for deer.  I use Noslar Partition 60 gr.  Federal loads them.  You have too have
a good shot placement.  I  have now decided that I will no longer use the .223 for deer.  I believe that a .243 is the smallest round that should be used on deer.  I know that I will get some slack, but I believe that the game I hunt deserves a quick and clean kill.  I think that the .243 and larger does the job better than the .223

Offline Blue Duck

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2009, 05:23:59 AM »
When would you not use good shot placement?

Offline kynardsj

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2009, 08:51:49 AM »
Some years ago I had an Interarms Mark X bolt rifle in 223. It would shoot sub moa with 55 grain Remingtons but wouldn't keep 70+ grain 223's on the paper. Be sure her rifle will even pattern the heavier bullets. A 223 IMO is the bare minimum for a rifle caliber for whitetail. Although it will kill one everything has to be perfect.
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Offline JASmith

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2009, 03:33:44 PM »
yooper77 and dukkilr have it right -- the .223 is NOT a reliable deer killer.  It isn't even a reliable people killer!

At the risk of offending our moderator -- the issue is not whether the rifle will kill a deer with a well-placed shot.  We all know that's what it takes -- the problem is that we don't always hit where we expected to.  At that point, we have a wounded deer that needs to be tracked.  Even the .243 doesn't always leave the blood trail we'd like to see.

That's part of the reason for the .25, 6.5, and .270 popularity.  They don't recoil much, giving the shooter more confidence in taking a good shot, but when things don't go perfectly, the bullets are by and large big enough to get through and promote good blood trails.  To be sure, not all will get through, but a lot more will get through with these calibers than either the .223 or the .243 -- 

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Deer with a .223 .75 Gr?
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2009, 06:20:42 PM »
I shot a doe @ 75 yards with a 223 using Hornady 55gr SP.  Double lung shot = dead deer.  Keep it under 100 yards with a good shot and it's fine.  I have heard good things about the 64gr Power Points too.

yep neck  shot 55 gr not a step just dropped.
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Offline LunaticFringeInc

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2009, 06:29:53 PM »
.223 will work inside about 200 yards with a well constructed premium bullet.  I occasionally use a 224 TTH loaded with Swift Scirocco II 75 gr or 80gr J-36 from Lost River Ballistics loaded to about 3600-3650 fps through a barrel with a 1 in 6 twist rate.  It does a pretty good job out to distances as far as one should be shooting game in the first place.  Its much better for coyotes than deer though as there are many other calibers I would much rather use for deer and I own a few of those too!

Offline Dave in WV

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2009, 04:59:08 AM »
Before you decide to you use the TAP ammo or any heavy .22 bullets, see if your rifle will shoot them accurately. My son had a Howa .223 and it wouldn't shoot bullets over 60gr worth a hoot. 55gr bullets were as good as it got with any accuracy.
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Offline fr3db3ar

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2009, 05:48:49 AM »
remember though...it's length...not weight.  The Winchester 64 gr power point is almost exactly the same length as the 55 gr V-max.  Just a different BC.
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Offline jhm

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2009, 05:55:21 AM »
JASmith You are NOT offending the Moderator a bit, as I have on several occasions posted my opinion of the 223 for deer, It just seems like more and more people try to see just how small of a caliber they can use rather than MAN up and get a proper caliber for the JOB, If I couldnt handle a deer rifle in a proper caliber I just wouldnt deer hunt and stay home with the other WOMEN!!   Jim

Offline JASmith

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2009, 07:06:18 AM »
Yup!

Too many of us men, to use the vulgar term, pussy out -- forgetting that we are putting our own worries about recoil as a prime concern for the ladies.  It is not and should not be an issue.  In fact, one school of thought has it that the lighter frame responds better to recoil than do we heavy brutes.  Physics says that the lighter mass will move faster for a given impulse.  So it stands to reason that the smaller frame may get pushed further, but is less likely to hurt as much.

While I don't recommend it for new shooters, the 7.62X54R has been used very effectively by both Russian and Vietnamese female snipers in past conflicts.  These ladies learned to handle the recoil and shoot very effectively with them as the Germans discovered in WWII and we Americans learned to our sorrow in Vietnam.

The Model 94 Winchester in 30-30 has a fairly sharp kick compared to heavier rifles.  Nonetheless, my grandmother used one to take a black bear in the late '30s.  She said the men got "all excited" about the bear but for her it was no big deal!

Certainly, the new shooter needs to learn the basics with minimum recoil so that they learn good techniques without developing bad habits.  Once the techniques are learned, they can move on to more significant recoil environments.

With reloading so easy, and reduced recoil loads available for a lot of rifles, there is little reason to go with bullets that are the weight class represented by .224 and .243 bullets.

If you want to use a bolt action, start with at least the .257 Roberts, or go with a larger cartridge and start with reduced loads.

If one must use the AR15 platform, take a look at the 6.8 SPC, the 6.5 Grendel and the WSSM offerings.  These DO have big enough bullets and still have modest recoil.

Offline RaySendero

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2009, 12:21:11 PM »
H-E-L-L-O!!! Several have touched on it but some are not listening!

Don't use TAP ammo for deer - It is a fragmentation round!
    Ray

Offline kody

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2009, 02:25:07 PM »
How many deer have been killed with a .22 LR ----- and how many were fatally wounded but never recovered. For each guy who wrote in here about the kills they made with their .223s ,there are a hundred who lost those shot with a .22  They just don't mention them!   Placement IS the thing and there aren't many guys in this forum that don't adhere to that, just as there are those who shouldn't be allowed to use a 30'06 let alone a .223. I'm talking about the right way to legislate the gun laws to help guarantee that we play fair with the animals while pursuing them and not caving in to the spray and pray yo-yos and their phoney machismo!    Ken

Offline BassChamp

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Re: Deer with a .223 75 Gr?
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2009, 11:15:39 AM »
My daughter shoots .223 for deer and has killed two, one at 150 yrds and one at 120 yrds.  Both double lung shots and the deer did not go 30 yrds from point of impact.  My concern is neither bullet exited the deer.  We are using Hornady factory load 55gr SP.  What are your thoughts on this load?  We are 100% with it, but the no exit is a concern.  I do not reload, so factory loads are the way for me.