No more Black powder, Pyrodex, or 777 for me

[Carroll B]

After missing a deer 8 years ago with my side-lock I bought a TC Omega.  I needed a BP with a scope and the looks of the 25 year old TC side-lock would have been ruined by a scope.  Every deer I have put the crosshairs on with the Omega I have taken home, but I was very disappointed in the performance of the various powders I had used.  These included Pyrodex, Triple 7 loose and pellets, as well as black powder.  Shooting Triple 7 I found if I didn’t swab the bore I couldn’t get the second slug seated on the powder charge.  Pyrodex wasn’t much better.  I used Remington Klean-Bore primers and this didn’t help. I considered the 25 ACP conversion but thought why should I have to modify a new breach plug just so I could shoot the gun?


I tried various combinations of bullets and sabots.  I liked the performance of Barnes 245 grain split-fires but still couldn’t get off the second shot if there were more then one deer. (In my state you are allowed about 10 does). The Barnes measured .505 and a Hornady 250 grain SST/ML measured .504.  Last year I loaded a Barnes bullet using the Hornady sabot (.504"), and for the second shot a Hornady SST using a 3-pedal MMP sabot (.502").  Even this combo made loading the second shot difficult if not almost impossible. 


Well along comes Blackhorn 209 Powder.  I bought some last week and today went to the range.  I loaded combinations of the Hornady using the sabots that came with them and also the Barnes and their sabots.  After seven shots using 100 grains of Blackhorn the seventh bullet loaded as easy as the first one with a clean barrel.  I found very little different in the printing of the Barnes or Hornady at fifty yards using 100 grains of Blackhorn and a Fiocchi 209 primer.  The first seven shots measured just over 1 inch and almost all were touching.  (Probably the limit of my ability not the gun's). According to Blackhorn this combination should be running over 1900 fps.  I didn’t take the chrony with me but I have never had a deer complain about the speed of my bullets anyway.

I will give away all my other powders and only shoot Blackhorn 209 from now on.  Clean-up with the Blackhorn was easy with just hot soapy water and the breach plug was as easy to remove after 11 shots as when it was first put in the gun.

[Keith Lewis]

Blackhorn is not a soap and water clean up powder. Use regular smokeless powder solvents per the recommendation on the bottle.

[Carroll B]

Keith you are correct. Next time I'll clean up with Hoppes #9. That will make cleaning even easier as I will not have to remove the barrel from the stock like I do using hot water.

[Redhawk1]

I have also heard so great reviews on the Blackhorn, from local shooter.

I am no longer shooting any muzzleloads that require BP or subs, since I went to my Savage smokeless.
But if I go back to a standard ML I will try Blackhorn.

[AndyHass]

Look up some of the posts elsewhere on mysteriously cracked breech plugs using BH209.  We're still on the learning curve with this one.

[burntmuch]

Im using the BH209 as well. Ive had great shooting with it & my Omega X7.  Havent heard anything about cracked breach plugs yet. Its kinda pricey but a bottle will last me a year

 70 grains underneath a 180 grain gold dot & 50/40 sabot gives me 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. Dont know how fast their going, I LL see how they do on whitetail this year,  100 grains under a 250 XTP & a crush rib sabot group real good as well,

[Bob the Cynic]

Add my name to the true believers list.  BH209 is the real deal.  I got very good accuracy with 90g under a 250g shockwave.

Unfortunately I have to wait three more weeks before I can find out how the local deer like it.

[yooper77]

I have great luck with standard loose or pellet Pyrodex in my Encore, using 240 lead bullet in a sabot with CCI primers.  Multiple reloads are no problem.

I also had some loose and pellet 777 and they are good accuracy too, multiple reloads are no problem.

Blackhorn 209 is simply too expensive and will only be tried if I find it on clearance after the season or never.

yooper77

[Redhawk1]

Look up some of the posts elsewhere on mysteriously cracked breech plugs using BH209.  We're still on the learning curve with this one.

I have not seen any reports on cracked breech plugs using BH209, can you please show me where that is located.

Thanks

[Busta]

Look up some of the posts elsewhere on mysteriously cracked breech plugs using BH209.  We're still on the learning curve with this one.

I have not seen any reports on cracked breech plugs using BH209, can you please show me where that is located.

Thanks

A couple CVA breech plugs over at MM and 1 T/C plug with some gas cutting. I have seen T/C plugs with the gas cutting way before BH209 ever came around. The CVA plugs are probably a materials issue, not all Stainless Steel is created equally and hardness can vary from one lot to another.

[Busta]

Redhawk1,

I just went over to MM and dug up some of the old threads, they were about 9 pages back.

Pics of cracks in this post.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9847

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9946

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10027

[Swampman]

Look up some of the posts elsewhere on mysteriously cracked breech plugs using BH209.  We're still on the learning curve with this one.

No suprises here it's just CVAs that are failing.  If we'd just avoid Spanish made guns, we'd be a lot happier & healthier.  My problem is that at $35.00 for 10oz. I just can't use BH209 on a regular basis.

[AndyHass]

Look up some of the posts elsewhere on mysteriously cracked breech plugs using BH209.  We're still on the learning curve with this one.

I have not seen any reports on cracked breech plugs using BH209, can you please show me where that is located.

Thanks

Busta beat me to it (thanks).

As I said it's new and we are still learning, I am drawing no conclusions yet (either that is is BH209's fault or CVAs).  A couple reports too that you'll still get rust if you don't clean, but unless you go real smokeless I think any residue in the barrel is inviting moisture that will start rust.

Given my volume of shooting, an occasional spit patch is a ton cheaper than what they charge for BH209.  I'm sure it works, but I'm sure its performance does not justify the price increase.  Bullets are going up enough.

[AndyHass]

Look up some of the posts elsewhere on mysteriously cracked breech plugs using BH209.  We're still on the learning curve with this one.

No suprises here it's just CVAs that are failing.  If we'd just avoid Spanish made guns, we'd be a lot happier & healthier.  My problem is that at $35.00 for 10oz. I just can't use BH209 on a regular basis.

When was the last time a CVA hurt the health of you or anyone you know?

While I love my Omegas now, my first had to go back to the factory TWICE so I couldn't shoot it the first 4 months I owned it and was out more than $50 in shipping costs, and both Omegas required shimming and special rings to make up for an apparent design defect that caused them to shoot way low (lots of Omegas/Encores seem to do this).  Chalk up more wasted time and lots of ammo cost figuring that one one.

My old Traditions wasn't the best design but I was a lot happier with it for the first year anyways...it was accurate and at least I was shooting nice groups the first day on the range, not 6 months later after I got done sending to T/C and screwing with the scope issue.

[Swampman]

T/C has really gone downhill but at least they are safe.  Now that NEF is gone, Knight & Savage are about the only good production muzzleloaders left on the market.

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1,

I just went over to MM and dug up some of the old threads, they were about 9 pages back.

Pics of cracks in this post.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9847

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9946

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10027

Thanks,,

[coop2564]

Congrats on becoming a BH 209 fan. Your shooting the exact same thing I am with very simular results.

[montveil]

Has anyone found any significant differences when using BN209 other than cleaning, ease etc
Namely how different bullets perform regards to accuracy?

[Swampman]

If it will work in your gun,(check their list) accuracy is supposed to be very good.

[sabotloader]

montveil

I can not be qualified near to being an exert on BH-209, I have expermented with a couple of bottles - shooting it in all of my different inlines... I can tell you that it appears to be accurate, it does solve the patching problem and it is slightly faster than T7 or Swiss.

BH has engineered to be a BP sub, but if you were to get a government MSDS sheet that spells the ingredients you would find it is a progressive burning smokeless powder - not using NCell - but one you open a bottle you will get the unmistaken smokless odor ether.  It is not hydroscopic, it matches BP volume measurements and shoots with the relative same velocity and with less pressure than T7 (according to Western) and that is entirely possible since it is progressive.  Where it walks away is with the heavier bullets that stay in the barrel longer and allow the powder to really be efficient.

In each of the different rifles I shot it in a White M97, a Remington 700ml, a Knight Extreme, and a Omega with a 25 acp (with #450 primers) it would produce approximately 100 ft/sec faster velocity than T7-2f and the POI @ 100 yards is esentially the same. All of these were shot across the same chrono.

Toby B has completed a comparison that might interest you, but again remember he write these reviews for compensation, although I find this comparison fairly accirate with my experiances...


http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/SpecialReport2.html

I should have also added, the cost of 10 ounces vs the cost of 16 onces of T7 makes it to expensive for me to shoot.  I could further qualify that by saying if I were just shooting it during hunting season - it would be my powder of choice - but I really like shooting ML's way to much...

[Swampman]

Does anyone know if you have to pay a hazmat fee if you order it?

[sabotloader]

Swampman

Yep! you do...  There might be away around it a little bit... my local mom and pop sporting goods hunting store, buys directly from Western Powders - i have him order BH for when he is sending an order in to Western the nthe Hazmat fee is spread across the whole order... thing is you have to wait for him to have a large order of various powders.... 

[hunt-m-up]

The price is holding me back on this one somewhat, but I did take a look at their website and it looks good. I hope all of their claims are true. I always get a kick out of the comparison charts. I shoot Triple7. I used to be a soap and water guy and natural lube, but now I just hit it with that foaming cleaner or even Butch's and run a final patch/s with CLP to protect it. No problems and loads easier, etc.
Also, what's all the talk with stuck breech plugs with Triple7? In inlines? The first cheap CVA I bought I had to apply some heat very carefully to bust it loose as a last resort, but that was learning on my own before I discovered that oil was not sufficient to keep them from seizing. If you use any type of anti-seize how are you still having this problem? I like Gorilla Grease or the anti-seize stuff from the auto parts store.

[coop2564]

BH 209 its only $5-10 higher price wise depending on what brand u r shooting. After you shoot it you'll be so glad you spent that money, its so much more consistant and easy to deal it. Its really cheap insurance also you dont have to worry about forgetting to clean your barrel and having it pit and corrode or having your breach plug freeze. Its money well spent in my book. If your gun has the right breach plug for its use I highly recommend it.

[Swampman]

BassPro has it on sale for $34.95 for 10oz.  That's more than twice as much as Pyrodex or 777.  I'm sure it's great stuff!

[mrbigtexan]

couldn’t get off the second shot if there were more then one deer. (In my state you are allowed about 10 does).

[/quote] what state are you from?

[montveil]

how many 100 grain shots are there in a 10 oz can of blackhorn 209?

[mparks]

100gr volume/ 70gr Weight.  This was recently confirmed by Western Powders apparently.

438gr/oz = 4,380 gr / 10oz

4,380 / 70 = 62 shots per 10 oz with 100grV charge

[montveil]

Thanks
I have been using Triple Seven pellets and am thinking about Blackhorn loose powder
I have been using T7 pellets 2x50 =100 grains. 100 per box = 50 shots for $30 = 60 cents per shot.
Blackhorn=48 cents per shot
My hunting is done from 50-100 yards in these NC mountains
I know Blackhorn is expensive at 48 cents per shot, compared to other lose but when coming from pellets it seems OK, especially if I reduce my charges to 80 or 90 grains which I intend to do