which fast 6.5 for a rifle build?

[mcwoodduck]

I really like my 6.5X55 Swede and limited to a 24" barrel I would pick it.
If I could go to a 26" barrel I would pick 264 win.

[Skunk]

I really like my 6.5X55 Swede and limited to a 24" barrel I would pick it.

+1 on the Swede. I like mine too.

[Coyote Hunter]

Yup, sure did.  Here’s what Fred Zeglin, inventor of the Hawk cartridge has to say:
http://www.z-hat.com/Rifleshooter.htm
“Frankly, those smaller than .270 bore don't make good use of the extra case capacity.”

264 Hawk
http://www.z-hat.com/Hawk%20Ballistics.htm
*85gr. Sierra 50gr. H4895 3540 fps
*100gr. Nosler  57gr. N160 3440 fps
*120gr. Nosler    60gr. IMR4831  3330 fps
*140gr. Hornady 54.5 gr. H4831 2810 fps
*140gr. Hornady 56gr. H4831SC 2925 fps
*140gr. Hornady 52gr. IMR4350 2990 fps
*140gr. Hornady 53gr. IMR 4350 3090 fps

http://www.z-hat.com/guns404.htm
57 grains IMR 4831 120 Nos SBT 3139 fps
58 grains IMR 4831 120 Nos SBT 3154 fps
55 grains IMR 4831 129 Hornady SP 2950 fps
52 grains IMR 4831 140 Sierra SBT 2749 fps


Nosler 6th, 6.5mm-06
100g, 3547fps
120g, 3294fps
125g, 3110fps
130g, 3151fps  (Not a typo, its listed as faster than the 125g)
140g, 2906fps

The 6.5mm-06AI ought to be able to beat those velocities by a bit, say 100fps, making it – for all practical purposes - the equivalent of the Hawk version.

The advantage of the Hawk is the shoulder is moved further forward, like the Gibbs, providing more powder space.  Remember I'm using an Interarms Mark X action, with a 3.5" magazine.  That means a shorter neck will cause the very long, very high B.C. bullets I want to use (130g Scirocco, 140g Berger VLD) to seat deeper into the powder space, thereby reducing powder space.  I figure the Hawk and Gibbs have some “cool” factor, but I’m not convinced I really gain anything with these cartridges.  Besides, the longer neck, in theory, should help improve accuracy, if only a smidge.

[AtlLaw]

WOW!     Interesting!  I always thought Remington messed up basing the 260 on the 308 case rather then the 30/06.  And this thread is giving me the hots for a 6.5/06 AI!     Stop I tell you!   

[benchracer]

I believe 'yote hunter is spot on in his analysis of the .264 Hawk.  I was looking at that same data and comments from Fred Zeglin and came to the same conclusions that 'yote hunter did.  That is what made me opt to go the 6.5-06AI route.  The fact that I could send my action to a barrel manufacturer, have the work done, and have it back in three or four months-- as opposed to a year or more at a custom gunsmith's shop-- also helped to sway me.  My Ruger will be off to PacNor for a rebarrel soon... then off to be fitted for a custom stock... Can't wait!

[AtlLaw]

Cummon guys!  Lighten up on me!     I've got actions for a 250 Savage and a 7x57 Mauser waiting to be re-barreled, not to mention the complete FAL parts kit I'm trying to get around to sending off.  Now all I can think about is how much I like the 6.5/06 and finding a long action... 

I got to stop hanging around this place...        

[benchracer]

Wow, AtlLaw, that's eerily similar to my own situation...  Aside from the aforementioned incipient Ruger 6.5-06, I have two commercial mauser actions that I plan to have barreled (6.5x55 and .257 Roberts AI, respectively) and six FAL's that I am in the process of building (plus one completed STG 58).  I am gearing up for high volume reloading to feed my FAL's...

THE HORROR...  THE HORROR...

[Badnews Bob]

Richard yer not gonna do the FAL yerownself? Benchracer and I fitted two together so far and as soon as I get my new mancave built I be gonna work on the others, Gonna start on some garands next, Thats amonst the mausers handies and rugers and 1911s and well you know what I mean.

[AtlLaw]

six FAL's that I am in the process of building (plus one completed STG 58).

I know what you mean!    Those FAL's are fun though!  I have an L1 that is my favorite, and a Gew that I call a "GewIzzie" because it's dressed in Isreali furniture (and an 18 inch barrel).  My remaining one is an Argie I'm keeping original, uh, well, not full auto!  But an all Imbel!   

yer not gonna do the FAL yerownself?

Naw, a FAL smith named Sledgehammer has done 3 for me.  There are many in a group called the "Georgia FAL'ers" that do it, and we have had "build parties" in the past.  Never turned my crank though.     So I just send mine off.   

But this topic is about fast 6.5's.  Sorry Mods, I digressed...    < but the OP started it!>   

[benchracer]

Awwww, a little bit of insanity between friends never hurt anything...especially when it is clear that a number of us have the same afflictions!

[benchracer]

Update:  Yes, I am dredging up this old thread again. 

As several posts indicated, I ran into a COAL problem because the Ruger Long action is a bit on the short side.  So, I opted for 6.5-284 Norma instead of the 6.5-06AI that I had coveted.  If I ever do a 6.5-06AI, it will be on a Remington 700 type action to avoid COAL issues.

I received some good advice in the Gunsmithing forum on how to make the 6.5-284 feed properly.  Following said advice, I swapped out the follower, made up some dummy rounds and tested the setup.  With 140gr Bergers, about the longest bullet I could think of, the dummy rounds measured right around 3.329 or so and fed perfectly.

My rifle has been sent to Krieger to be re-barrelled.  I also made some concessions on barrel length and contour.  Went with 26" barrel a bit heavier than a normal sporter barrel (#4 contour). 

I had planned to go with a custom stock from Accurate Innovations, and I still may, but I am going to glass bed the action in a factory Ruger Laminate stock while I decide whether or not I like the series of compromises that I have chosen.  If I like how the rifle turns out, I may restock it.  If not, I will shoot it until I use up the barrel, put a 24" sporter contour 6.5x55 barrel on it, put it in the aforementioned Accurate Innovations stock and not look back.

[benchracer]

This rifle project has been a long time coming for me, but the end is finally in sight (though still a few months away).  Thanks for all of the input and advice.  This has been a truly valuable learning experience for me, which is what motivates me to do things like this in the first place.

When the rifle is ready to put rounds down range, I will post yet another update.

Special thanks to Badnews Bob, my good friend and fellow gun nut.  I don't think that I would ever have had the cojones to go down this path if he were not around to bail me out when I take a wrong turn.

[charles p]

Firerforming brass for an AI is no big deal and the brass seems to last forever.

My experience with a custom 280AI and a 26" Shilen on a 700 receiver resulted in a rifle that is so heavy, I don't use it anymore.  Don't go overboard in your quest for velocity.  It won't do you any good sitting in the gun rack.  Build yourself a rifle that is a joy to shoot and carry.

[Badnews Bob]

This rifle project has been a long time coming for me, but the end is finally in sight (though still a few months away).  Thanks for all of the input and advice.  This has been a truly valuable learning experience for me, which is what motivates me to do things like this in the first place.

When the rifle is ready to put rounds down range, I will post yet another update.

Special thanks to Badnews Bob, my good friend and fellow gun nut.  I don't think that I would ever have had the cojones to go down this path if he were not around to bail me out when I take a wrong turn.

Well thanks Brad, I am still looking out for you. We didn't include the bolt in the package sent to Kreigers, so he couldn't do the headspaceing. I got it in th email yesterday. So the Ruger and Garand should be in work today.

[oldfart0007]

my two cents how about  remington 6,5 mag on a winchester mod 70 sa chambered for one of the wsm cartriges

[kudzu]

the 6.5 rem mag intregs me , thought about a custom 6.5 rem mag for my TC pro hunter. I know this won't fit the OP platform, for him I would go 6.5-284.
I like the ballisics on the rem mag with a 130 scirroco

[securitysix]

I didn't see the 6.5x57mm mentioned anywhere.  Of course, I can't tell that it would really do anything the 6.5x55mm can't do, so maybe that's why.  Then again, a 6.5x57mm AI might be worth looking at.

[roper]

Update:  Yes, I am dredging up this old thread again. 

As several posts indicated, I ran into a COAL problem because the Ruger Long action is a bit on the short side.  So, I opted for 6.5-284 Norma instead of the 6.5-06AI that I had coveted.  If I ever do a 6.5-06AI, it will be on a Remington 700 type action to avoid COAL issues.

I received some good advice in the Gunsmithing forum on how to make the 6.5-284 feed properly.  Following said advice, I swapped out the follower, made up some dummy rounds and tested the setup.  With 140gr Bergers, about the longest bullet I could think of, the dummy rounds measured right around 3.329 or so and fed perfectly.

My rifle has been sent to Krieger to be re-barrelled.  I also made some concessions on barrel length and contour.  Went with 26" barrel a bit heavier than a normal sporter barrel (#4 contour). 

I had planned to go with a custom stock from Accurate Innovations, and I still may, but I am going to glass bed the action in a factory Ruger Laminate stock while I decide whether or not I like the series of compromises that I have chosen.  If I like how the rifle turns out, I may restock it.  If not, I will shoot it until I use up the barrel, put a 24" sporter contour 6.5x55 barrel on it, put it in the aforementioned Accurate Innovations stock and not look back.

Your ahead of me my 284 on the Ruger action is alittle behind I dropped some dummy rd off at the gunsmith for throating OAL be around 3.100" and he ran some of those rds to double check that follower and everything feeds great.  Barrel be around 24.5" long and I got a Rimrock stock should be a nice set up.

It's fun when everything come together for me I get more out of the planning.  Well good luck and let me know how it shoots.

[diggler1833]

Update:  Yes, I am dredging up this old thread again. 

As several posts indicated, I ran into a COAL problem because the Ruger Long action is a bit on the short side.  So, I opted for 6.5-284 Norma instead of the 6.5-06AI that I had coveted.  If I ever do a 6.5-06AI, it will be on a Remington 700 type action to avoid COAL issues.

I received some good advice in the Gunsmithing forum on how to make the 6.5-284 feed properly.  Following said advice, I swapped out the follower, made up some dummy rounds and tested the setup.  With 140gr Bergers, about the longest bullet I could think of, the dummy rounds measured right around 3.329 or so and fed perfectly.

My rifle has been sent to Krieger to be re-barrelled.  I also made some concessions on barrel length and contour.  Went with 26" barrel a bit heavier than a normal sporter barrel (#4 contour). 

I had planned to go with a custom stock from Accurate Innovations, and I still may, but I am going to glass bed the action in a factory Ruger Laminate stock while I decide whether or not I like the series of compromises that I have chosen.  If I like how the rifle turns out, I may restock it.  If not, I will shoot it until I use up the barrel, put a 24" sporter contour 6.5x55 barrel on it, put it in the aforementioned Accurate Innovations stock and not look back.

Ahhhh, you said "compromises".  I'll be willing to bet that you change different components a bit on that rifle until you are at the point where no compromise has been made.  It is definitely cheaper to buy once and cry once.  Besides, everyone knows that compromises are made for wives, not rifles.

[Coyote Hunter]

Benchracer –

I think you will be very happy with your choice.  My Interarms-based 6.5-06AI came out very nicely and I’m very happy with the work Krieger did.  I’ve been shooting clay pigeons off the 600-yard berm with the fire-form loads.

With 7828SSC I settled on 3150fps for the 130g Scirocco and 3050fps for the 140g A-MAX.

[kombi1976]

This may seem late in the discussion but you asked about 2 cartridges early on and I reckon the best of them for fast is the 6.5/284.
Good factory brass is easily available and it's a proven performer.
Over the years I've become lazier and lazier about case forming and the 6.5/284 is a no brainer.
Accuracy, speed, long range efficiency and ballistics, good factory components.
Seems like a tick in every box to me. 

[benchracer]

roper, your .284 project is moving along.  Thanks for your advice regarding my own project.  I will indeed post results when my rifle is ready.

diggler, you may well be right about me changing some things with this rifle.  With this project, I am venturing deep into what is, for me, uncharted territory.  The way I am configuring the rifle is a "best guess" regarding what it will take to make me happy.  I intend to tweak the rifle until I am happy with its overall performance.  It is not possible to do so without compromises.  The devil is in which compromises to make and how far to go with each compromise.

Coyote Hunter, glad to know that your project 6.5-06AI went well.  Thanks for your positive feedback.  I will be very happy with my 6.5-284 if I can achieve velocities within 100fps of your AI and do so with good accuracy.

kombi, glad to hear from you.  I would agree, obviously, with your level-headed assessment of the 6.5-284.  It would appear to have many virtues.  I will soon find out if those virtues translate into real world practicality.  I have read quite a few of your posts, which has led me to classify you as a pretty practical fellow.  Any time we are on the same page, I have to think that I am in good company. 

[Badnews Bob]

Hey man I couldn't get ahold of Kriegers in time to change barrel profiles, Gonna hafta go with your first choice.

[kombi1976]

Benchracer, flattery will get you everywhere.
I like the 6.5s but haven't had much luck with them so far.
I had a Carcano carbine but the bolt stuck fast everytime it was fired so I passed it on to a friend along with the cases and dies.
If he can get it working good luck to him.
I wouldn't mind one that worked though.
Maybe I'll get a 6.5x55 one day although I've fired a 6.5x52 Jap and that was a nice little rifle.
It strikes me as being a fun round with the right bullet.
But you can't make a better choice for long range shooting than 6.5/284.
In fact 284 Win itself is a great round although it never had a chance, what with 7mm Rem Mag, 280 Rem and 7x57.
Make sure you post some pics of this new beauty.

[grizz]

Question is how fast do you want to go? I love anything in a 6.5. With that said the 6.5x284 is a great choice. If you want something super fast go with the 6.5x300 weatherby.. I have 2 of them you can drive 140 and 142's over 3500 with a nice long 30" tube. They will kill quick at distance. they shoot superflat. Only problem with them is well 2 problems.. 1 there isnt a whole lot of data for them and 2. They are not the easiest on bbls. I generally will get 1200-1500 rounds before they need to get cut back r retubed..

[RWK]

6.5 Rem. mag the way to go fast out of the box.

[jdt48653]

here is another good 6.5   scroll all the way down to 6.5x68
             http://www.loaddata.com/members/listing.cfm?type=2

            this is a good site to join