Author Topic: Your 3rd party vote.... (Read 9774 times)

Dee · « **Reply #90 on:** October 25, 2008, 04:13:53 AM »

Quote from: slim rem 7 on October 25, 2008, 03:47:37 AM

you seem intelligent but remember the media would have us totally turn away from the democratic process .hence the constant fault finding of elected officials.. then they can openly embrace socialism .. the media will support the premier or what ever they call him then.. or else some body will pay them a midnight visit..

Other than your reference to the media corruption in reporting, your point is totally lost. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #91 on:** October 25, 2008, 04:14:22 AM »

Quote

At some point this broken system will have to be dealt with, or everyone can just go down and pick up their "socialist membership card. This forum is but a reflection of the nationwide attitude of just one more time, "putting off the inevidible" and taking the easy way out, and playing the "game of redundancy". Until courage is aquired by the masses, and in unison they cast a vote that says: No Mas! Nothing will change for the good, only the worse. And it is indeed worse this time, and will be worse still NEXT TIME.

After this election, (after I vote McCain *shudders*) I'm dedicating my life to scraping the crap my elders have left on this country off and shining it up so that my kid doesn't have to. People my age have inherited a huge pile of s#!% and were now being told to eat it... and if we refuse to buy into it were told were idiots, or were ignorant. I'm sorry but who is more ignorant, the one's wanting to fix this mess or the ones who have elected their way into it? I pray that my generation will leave a better country in the hands out our children than what we got handed to us...

Heather · « **Reply #92 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:24:06 AM »

Quote from: Singleshotsam on October 25, 2008, 04:14:22 AM

Quote
At some point this broken system will have to be dealt with, or everyone can just go down and pick up their "socialist membership card. This forum is but a reflection of the nationwide attitude of just one more time, "putting off the inevidible" and taking the easy way out, and playing the "game of redundancy". Until courage is aquired by the masses, and in unison they cast a vote that says: No Mas! Nothing will change for the good, only the worse. And it is indeed worse this time, and will be worse still NEXT TIME.

After this election, (after I vote McCain *shudders*) I'm dedicating my life to scraping the crap my elders have left on this country off and shining it up so that my kid doesn't have to. People my age have inherited a huge pile of s#!% and were now being told to eat it... and if we refuse to buy into it were told were idiots, or were ignorant. I'm sorry but who is more ignorant, the one's wanting to fix this mess or the ones who have elected their way into it? I pray that my generation will leave a better country in the hands out our children than what we got handed to us...

No doubt. Not to offend our elders, but you guys did give us a pretty screwed up world. We were brought up in school learning that all of our battles had been fought for us. Our great great grandfathers fought for our Independence. Our great grandfathers fought foreign nations to keep us safe at home. Our grandfathers fought for ever man to be equal in the eyes of the law, and our grandmothers fought for women's rights. We were told that we were the generation of dreams. We had the whole world in front of us and we could be or do anything we set our minds to. What they failed to teach us was that our parents were living their dreams on credit, and before we could have the keys to our future we have to pay for their mistakes.

Heather

Dee · « **Reply #93 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:32:48 AM »

While what you say about many of your elders is true, I would dare say, that much of that credit was created while taking care of you, and giving you what you needed AND WANTED. Was it not?
Now that you have been made aware of your elders mistakes, you are about to do exactly as they. You are going to vote the lessor of two evils THIS TIME, but not the next time. I have heard that excuse for 50 years. It would appear that you too, are falling in step out of fear of the candidate.

Heather · « **Reply #94 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:39:37 AM »

Quote from: Dee on October 25, 2008, 05:32:48 AM

While what you say about many of your elders is true, I would dare say, that much of that credit was created while taking care of you, and giving you what you needed AND WANTED. Was it not?
Now that you have been made aware of your elders mistakes, you are about to do exactly as they. You are going to vote the lessor of two evils THIS TIME, but not the next time. I have heard that excuse for 50 years. It would appear that you too, are falling in step out of fear of the candidate.

Dee you are exactly right about the debt being made to take care of us. If the debt was incurred just on what we needed it wouldn't be that bad, but when credit was extended just for the wants of both our elders and us(to young to understand the difference between need and want at the time) that is where it gets ugly. Our parents should have known better. They should have taught us the difference instead of just giving us what we wanted. Hindsight is 20/20 and I know if most had it to do all over again they would change a lot. I just hope there are more out there like myself that sees the errors of our ways, and aspires to make a difference.

Heather

billy_56081 · « **Reply #95 on:** October 25, 2008, 10:45:41 AM »

Quote from: slim rem 7 on October 25, 2008, 03:47:37 AM

you seem intelligent but remember the media would have us totally turn away from the democratic process .hence the constant fault finding of elected officials.. then they can openly embrace socialism .. the media will support the premier or what ever they call him then.. or else some body will pay them a midnight visit..

Very well put SR7, the whining and crying blame/hate America first crowd is playing right into the socialists hands. Heck I bet most of them can't even comprehend the simple statement you have made.

What really chaps my rear is that the cry baby bunch wants do whine and bitch about everything, but they are the ones that have done nothing in the past and will do nothing in the future to change things for the better. I know myself I did my service and will do more if I feel I am needed.

Graybeard · « **Reply #96 on:** October 25, 2008, 01:19:29 PM »

The problem I have with third party voters and those voting for Obama and it is of course merely my opinion BUT I feel if he is elected there will not be another chance or another election for a long long time likely a few generations. I really do hope I'm wrong but I honestly believe if he is elected the US is history.

ironglow · « **Reply #97 on:** October 25, 2008, 01:50:02 PM »

I tend to agree with GB here..just my $.02...

Heather; before you blame ALL your elders consider this; Not ALL your elders have gone into hock with personal debt..some have been very conservative an frugal. As far as the public debt..I sure didn't vote for the Clintons..Barney Frank or Chris Dodd, and they were instrumental in bringing on the financial mess we are in. I didn't vote for LBJ and his "war on poverty", which has left a trillion dollar debt ..with negative effects. Frankly, you seem to think that each of us somehow had individual control on the destiny nof the nation. Blaming your "elders" for the mess is like the elder that blames ALL young people for the increase in illegal drug use..when we all know that many young people hate the drug culture just as much as the rest of us.
Yes, you can blame your elders if you wish, but perhaps with the choices and options you now have in your voting...you can begin to feel just how frustrated your elders have felt many times over the years. Blame is an easy game on Monday morning, but you are apparently of age to vote now..will you gladly take responsibility for what happens with our next prez..? After all. you have a vote now!
If the new prez screws up real bad..should your children blame you?...or are you perhaps just like the rest of us oldsters..a voice that spent a lifetime, crying in the wilderness ?
Believe me Heather; I along with probably all the other elders here would liked to have left you with a country free of debt, but after all..we are each only one vote among millions and we have been given as many choices on each election day as you will be getting on Nov 4th...

deltecs · « **Reply #98 on:** October 25, 2008, 02:24:06 PM »

Now that IG is the truth and has since the Constitution founders so many years ago. Franklins own child was a staunch Tory.

powderman · « **Reply #99 on:** October 25, 2008, 03:52:59 PM »

I DO fear osama obama, and the democratic party anymore. I believe that if he is elected the America we now know will cease to exist. I truly believe that he will push hard to completely disarm the law abiding citizens of he United States of America. With a dem controlled congress, he will succeed. We could put up a token resistence but the govt has a lot of bigger guns, we will lose. My grandson killed his 1st deer when he was 10 years old, he's now 14. Yesterday I gave him my 50 cal BP rifle. I want his children and grandchildren to experience the thrill of hunting and the shooting sports. I want them to be able to defend their homes, families, and friends. I don't want them hearing in history class about those evil guns that president osama saved America from. I know I've made a few enemies over the 3rd party deal, that is why I harp on this, it's that important to all of us. We all know that Mccain is all that stands between us and osama, YOU all know this. Pride and convictions won't put meat on your table, defend your homes, or protect your families, we should protect the right to keep and bear arms at all costs. Obama is evil, pure and simple, we all know this too. I persist in this because it's that important, and we all know that Mccain is the only thing that stands between us and osama. This late in the game convictions don't mean squat. Any vote other than for Mccain aids osama, pretty simple. Mccain wasn't my 1st, 2nd, even 3rd choice, but he's all we have to keep osama out of office. Even if you don't like Mccains voting record on the 2nd he's still a republican and they are the only reason we still have our rights to own a gun. Use common sense guys, osama is evil, use your vote to keep him at bay, vote Mccain Palin, they are our only hope. POWDERMAN.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #100 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:12:44 PM »

Even though I thought Kerry/Gore/ or Clinton were very bad people, I was never afraid they would bring an end to America as I do if Barrak Hussien Obama is elected. Come on third partiers, this is not voting for the lesser of two evils, it is voting againt pure and certain evil.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #101 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:36:33 PM »

Sam and heather i have been in the libertarian party for 20 years.....trying to make a difference
and recruiting members

greybeard i don't waste my vote i vote against the democrats....even quit the carpenter union after 12 years for supporting democrats

been straddling the fence to keep you 3 happy
a first step to becoming a politician don't you think

when i moved to town 30 years ago it was all democrats here and i registered republican
i was told that's dumb because ONLY democrats got elected in this county
now i don't think a single democrat holds office in the county
and i am libertarian now and still cant vote in the primaries

kevthebassman · « **Reply #102 on:** October 25, 2008, 06:30:56 PM »

Keep at it 45-70.

"Though change is inevitable, change for the better is a full-time job."

-- Adlai Stevenson

nw_hunter · « **Reply #103 on:** October 26, 2008, 08:08:48 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on October 25, 2008, 01:19:29 PM

The problem I have with third party voters and those voting for Obama and it is of course merely my opinion BUT I feel if he is elected there will not be another chance or another election for a long long time likely a few generations. I really do hope I'm wrong but I honestly believe if he is elected the US is history.

Some of my Democrat friends believed Bush would not give up the helm, and declare martial law before the elections! In my opinion the big money controlling these Fake elections have decided we the people would have a choice between their two candidates, and like it or not, we will have (for the first time) a Black man as Pres. or a Woman as VP. (This is a fact! ) I don't think it makes one damn bit of difference which wins, and we will continue down the old slippery slope..........JMHOP

I have been following the Constitution party (The third largest) for sometime and have been a member for two years.
Their candidate (Chuck Baldwin) is a good man and one that follows the constitution, and was endorsed by another patriot... Ron Paul for the Presidency. I don't feel like I have wasted my vote by voting for him. As a matter of fact I am proud of it.

If you think voting for the lesser of evil will be the better vote, then go for it, but don't blame third party voters for one party or the other for losing.

Dee · « **Reply #104 on:** October 27, 2008, 01:55:19 AM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on October 26, 2008, 08:08:48 PM

Quote from: Graybeard on October 25, 2008, 01:19:29 PM
The problem I have with third party voters and those voting for Obama and it is of course merely my opinion BUT I feel if he is elected there will not be another chance or another election for a long long time likely a few generations. I really do hope I'm wrong but I honestly believe if he is elected the US is history.

Some of my Democrat friends believed Bush would not give up the helm, and declare martial law before the elections! In my opinion the big money controlling these Fake elections have decided we the people would have a choice between their two candidates, and like it or not, we will have (for the first time) a Black man as Pres. or a Woman as VP. (This is a fact! ) I don't think it makes one damn bit of difference which wins, and we will continue down the old slippery slope..........JMHOP

I have been following the Constitution party (The third largest) for sometime and have been a member for two years.
Their candidate (Chuck Baldwin) is a good man and one that follows the constitution, and was endorsed by another patriot... Ron Paul for the Presidency. I don't feel like I have wasted my vote by voting for him. As a matter of fact I am proud of it.

If you think voting for the lesser of evil will be the better vote, then go for it, but don't blame third party voters for one party or the other for losing.

I agree.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #105 on:** October 27, 2008, 02:10:51 AM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on October 26, 2008, 08:08:48 PM

I don't think it makes one damn bit of difference which wins, and we will continue down the old slippery slope..........JMHOP

Well said.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #106 on:** October 27, 2008, 03:20:04 AM »

a lot of proud fools runnig around lately

math is neither right or wrong it just is

the next presidents will be republicrats no mattter of your foolish pride

if you do NOTHING to stop OBAMA you are unpatriotic

i put my libertaian party on notice

if OBAMA gets elected i may leave them after 20 years

and take 100 members with me

nw_hunter · « **Reply #107 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:46:22 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on October 27, 2008, 03:20:04 AM

a lot of proud fools runnig around lately

math is neither right or wrong it just is

the next presidents will be republicrats no mattter of your foolish pride

if you do NOTHING to stop OBAMA you are unpatriotic

i put my libertaian party on notice

if OBAMA gets elected i may leave them after 20 years

and take 100 members with me

"NAME CALLING" Something to be proud of huh?
The Libertarian movement will be better off.
***********************************
A government big enough to give you everything you
want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

powderman · « **Reply #108 on:** October 27, 2008, 10:39:26 AM »

Don't seem possible that some of you so called hunters and shooters can't see any difference between the Republicans and dumcraps. Dumcraps have voted consistently to strip us of our 2nd amendment rights. The Republican party is the ONLY reason we are still able to hunt, shoot, and defend our homes and loved ones. None of your 3rd party dropouts can claim that. If you don't like Mccain, don't matter, you should at least support the party that has kept our 2nd amendment right for us. The 3rd party candidates are dropouts from the political system who just want their 15 min of fame and stir the pot for osama. Your so called convictions won't mean squat with osama in office. POWDERMAN.

BBF · « **Reply #109 on:** October 27, 2008, 10:45:42 AM »

Graybeard: regardless how bad, nasty, evil and low life Obama is, he is NOT bullet proof

nw_hunter · « **Reply #110 on:** October 27, 2008, 11:46:09 AM »

Quote from: powderman on October 27, 2008, 10:39:26 AM

Don't seem possible that some of you so called hunters and shooters can't see any difference between the Republicans and dumcraps. Dumcraps have voted consistently to strip us of our 2nd amendment rights. The Republican party is the ONLY reason we are still able to hunt, shoot, and defend our homes and loved ones. None of your 3rd party dropouts can claim that. If you don't like Mccain, don't matter, you should at least support the party that has kept our 2nd amendment right for us. The 3rd party candidates are dropouts from the political system who just want their 15 min of fame and stir the pot for osama. Your so called convictions won't mean squat with osama in office. POWDERMAN.

The people in the party that kept or 2nd rights have been replaced by Liberals (Neocons) and the true Conservative Republicans have joined the ranks of other parties.....Like Bob Barr (Republican Rep. from Ga) Now a Candidate for the Libertarian Party A couple like Ron Paul are still there, but I feel will leave soon.

Leaving Liberals like McCain to pretend to be conservative.

It's time for a new party in DC and you name callers just don't get the picture.
Not really sure you have the mentality to understand.

I believe it is the only chance we have to preserve all our freedoms, and the odds are stacked against us it would appear.

Graybeard · « **Reply #111 on:** October 27, 2008, 12:05:28 PM »

Quote from: BBF on October 27, 2008, 10:45:42 AM

Graybeard: regardless how bad, nasty, evil and low life Obama is, he is NOT bullet proof

True enough but getting to a person with such a herd of protectors around them is never an easy task and the person who did almost surely wouldn't live long afterward. Perhaps someone will take that step and be successful in the attempt. The truly worst thing that would come from it tho if they did is that most likely a rifle would be used or a handgun and then the restrictions on us law abiding gun owners would be like you cannot believe. It likely would also result in a civil war brewed from the protesters who would riot.

Nope keeping him out is the way to go.

deltecs · « **Reply #112 on:** October 27, 2008, 12:12:06 PM »

You can certainly bet the with a quarum of Democrats in Congress and Obama as President, you will not have another chance to have a third party. The Dems will have the one party system and you will be never agiain be collective enough to override the masses by any party. The media will be controlled by libs and socialists, the laws enacted to prevent individual rights toward social well being, the taxes will be increased for re distribution to the masses, so they will vote for the incumbent liberals who will give more money and social welfare to those not paying for it, Congress will enact the popular vote for Presidential elections and do away with the electoral college, permit illegals and felons to vote in elections, appoint Marxist federal judges all over the US including SCOTUS, send foreign aid to third world countries in efforts to reduce world poverty by 50% by 2020 as intiated by the UN and probably have our military reduced to levels unimaginable that cannot defend the US and under UN command. A gradual decline in American values will become a cliff and nothing will stop it except the sudden stop at the bottom. It will be too late then to revolt. It will be too late then to vote them out. It will be too late for those who stood by their convictions and ego, instead of what is best for the country NOW, not what happens in the next election. It will be too late for our children with government controlling their money, lifestyle and education. Am I the only one to see this? History has shown us in the past the same path that America is taking now and the results have not been succussful. We will go a long way toward Marxism before or if we ever return to Constitutional principles and I will give you odds that many many people will die or be wounded before the outcome is known.

powderman · « **Reply #113 on:** October 27, 2008, 12:39:42 PM »

nwusedtobehunter. Thats what you'll be if osama is elected. I see things clearly. FACT, either Mccain or osama will be the next potus, period. That is a fact. FACT, All votes Mccain doesn't get will help osama obama, meaning the 3rd party spoilers. Thats why they are there, and you guys are falling for it. You evidently think that osama is best for America, cause thats what you are trying to do. Be a man, admit you want osama to win, cause you sure as hell are helping him. You evidently don't care about America, goes for the rest of you too. Shame on all of you for refusing to fight this evil . POWDERMAN.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #114 on:** October 27, 2008, 01:31:09 PM »

You guys that think that Obama and the Democrats are going to seize control and not have elections are DREAMING. You think that our current batch of Oligarchs (Republican and Democrat) don't know how to work the system? They've been doing it for years!

They don't need to have a 1 party system, the system they have now is working PERFECTLY to guide this country in the chosen direction, which is international socialism. If the Democrats tried to outlaw other parties, it would create a storm which they could not possibly weather.

Giving sheeple the choice between a socialist with an (R) behind his name and a socialist with a (D) gives them the impression that they are actually doing something to guide the direction of this country, which clearly is not the case if you look at the last few elections.

powderman · « **Reply #115 on:** October 27, 2008, 01:51:21 PM »

kev. You need glasses if you can't see any difference between the Republicans and the dems. Evidently the 2nd amendment means nothing to you. POWDERMAN.

deltecs · « **Reply #116 on:** October 27, 2008, 01:57:29 PM »

Quote from: kevthebassman on October 27, 2008, 01:31:09 PM

You guys that think that Obama and the Democrats are going to seize control and not have elections are DREAMING. You think that our current batch of Oligarchs (Republican and Democrat) don't know how to work the system? They've been doing it for years!

They don't need to have a 1 party system, the system they have now is working PERFECTLY to guide this country in the chosen direction, which is international socialism. If the Democrats tried to outlaw other parties, it would create a storm which they could not possibly weather.

Giving sheeple the choice between a socialist with an (R) behind his name and a socialist with a (D) gives them the impression that they are actually doing something to guide the direction of this country, which clearly is not the case if you look at the last few elections.

I don't think they'll outlaw third parties. I do think they will have fractured the major 2 nd party by then with propaganda that no 2nd party will be viable whatsoever. Laws will be re enacted like the Fairness Doctrine, which the feds may use to prevent opposition points of view. Prevent freedom of press and you have propaganda. Prevent conservative teaching and you have a State controlled education of new voters, much like the younger generation voting for Obama now. Prevent collective redress for grievances in SCOTUS by previous decisions in favor of social well being and you have denied individual private rights. So where then will be the Bill of Rights enforcement? Re enact the federal gun control laws and increase coverage and all methods of resistance will be effectively eliminated. A moderate R socialist is definitely not the same as a committed and dedicated D marxist. And due to Pro Choice, which the Democrats support as compared to Pro Life, which the Reps support, is the difference between true Christians and just those who expouse the litany. So theoretically, if a true Christian supports Pro Life, then he cannot support a party that supports Pro Choice, the Dems. The 2 are major Gulf disagreements in philosophy and politics.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #117 on:** October 27, 2008, 02:45:40 PM »

Powderman, the dems lost big back when slick willy was in office by attacking the 2nd Amendment. If they've got any sense, they'll stay away from it. So far, they've been pretty good about not doing anything about anything.... they won in '06 by promising to end the Iraq war, and they haven't even managed to do the first thing to stop it. Apart from that, there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between the two.

Quote from: deltecs on October 27, 2008, 01:57:29 PM

I don't think they'll outlaw third parties. I do think they will have fractured the major 2 nd party by then with propaganda that no 2nd party will be viable whatsoever. Laws will be re enacted like the Fairness Doctrine, which the feds may use to prevent opposition points of view. Prevent freedom of press and you have propaganda. Prevent conservative teaching and you have a State controlled education of new voters, much like the younger generation voting for Obama now. Prevent collective redress for grievances in SCOTUS by previous decisions in favor of social well being and you have denied individual private rights. So where then will be the Bill of Rights enforcement? Re enact the federal gun control laws and increase coverage and all methods of resistance will be effectively eliminated. A moderate R socialist is definitely not the same as a committed and dedicated D marxist. And due to Pro Choice, which the Democrats support as compared to Pro Life, which the Reps support, is the difference between true Christians and just those who expouse the litany. So theoretically, if a true Christian supports Pro Life, then he cannot support a party that supports Pro Choice, the Dems. The 2 are major Gulf disagreements in philosophy and politics.

Deltecs, the actions you mention would work in the favor of the Republicans. The best way to incite opposition is to attack their base, which is what aggressive propaganda, attacks on gun owners, and so and so forth would do. If the Democrats embrace the far-left wackos in their party, they will turn the moderates away. They did it in the mid-late 90's, and were beaten badly as a result.

As for pro-choice vs. pro-life, what have the Republicans done to help on the national level? If you're counting on the Republicans to protect the unborn, you're putting your faith in people who have little interest in helping you.

The Republicans and Democrats have merged fairly significantly. Neither party believes that the American people are capable of running their own lives. Both parties are pushing for more surveillance, less freedom, more entitlements.

I really find it laughable that after the last 8 years, anyone could think that the Democrats are SOOOO much better than the Republicans. The Republicans had 6 years of controlling congress and the presidency, and they left the border wide open the whole time, all they really managed to do was push for more power and control in the name of keeping us safe.

deltecs · « **Reply #118 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:16:09 PM »

I find it laughable how soon people forget the facts and ignore the truth. The truth is that Clinton signed into law the Brady Bill which he supported wholeheartedly. I remember when his law license was revoked for perjury. I remember his administration having a 70+% popularity when he cheated on his wife in the Oval Office and lied in a court deposition that deprived another individual of her Constitutional right to due process. I remember his failed foreign policy, which got us into this mess. I remember his pardons for felons that aided his and his wifes wrongdoing, more Presidential pardons than any other President. I remember his economic policy of mandating Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to make loans to underqualified people to get votes and enjoy the American dream. I remember Rep attempting to regulate the speculation markets without success by the Dem and supported by the White House. I remember more corruption, questionable deaths, scandals and lies than Tammany Hall and Chicago during Prohibition times. I remember when the voting public was still as stupid and ignorant of facts, as they are now with Obama. Did I leave anything out during those 8 years the Dems controlled Congress for a part and the President at tenure for the entire time? You bet I did. The post would be way too long. Just because there are occasions where each party has elected officials violating some rule or other does not mean the majority of them are representative of the party. However, it is the Dems that have had the majority of these violations and many are still in office. I remember Chappaquidick, do you? How about Rastinkowski and Jefferson? The former Gov of NY? Edwards of the DNC? How many more would you like to distingush the difference between a party attempting to wrestle with government, as compared to those attempting to exploit it? Don't forget Obama? What cause did he fight for as a young man? His own and Marxism by association and his own hand in his book and actions. You think as you will. I'll think logically without emotion and arrive at conclusions based on facts, not wishful belief.

kevthebassman · « **Reply #119 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:50:11 AM »

And yet, the one indisputable fact remains; the vast, OVERWHELMING majority of Americans want the southern border closed. The money to build a fence has already been appropriated. And yet the southern border remains wide open. Drug cartels and the Mexican army cross our border, fire at our border patrol, and when the border patrol does their job and fires back, they are put in prison. Bush could have pardoned them, but he didn't.

If the Republicrats had pushed the building of the fence with as much vigor as they pushed the bailout, it would have been built 7 years ago.

THAT, is why there there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Republicans are pushing for international socialism just as hard as the Democrats.