Author Topic: Why a 30-06?  (Read 8183 times)

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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2008, 02:37:13 PM »
Off hand, my son only has one deer rifle.  It is a 30-06.  His father in law only has one. It is a 30-06.  My two adult stepsons have one deer rifle each. They have 30-30s. Their father has a 30-06.   Now I'll admit I have more than one, but like you I am a bit of a gun nut.  I wasn't talking about shotguns, all of us have shotguns. My two step sons shot trap in high school. I wasn't talking about 22s.  Lots of folks have 22 rimfires and my son's father in law has a centerfire 22 in a caliber I can't recall.   

Sorry, Graybeard, not everybody is as rich as you.  Most people have real lives with real needs that trump their love of luxury.  Maybe when the young people grow a little richer they will spend it on additional rifles. Right now they have kids to raise and to send to college.

Offline teddy12b

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2008, 04:45:59 PM »
My cousin and father in law both only have one centerfire rifle.  Both are stainless savage 30-06's.  Neither of them is a gun nut by any means, but they have something they can hunt anything with.  I am a gun nut and have about a half dozen rifles like GB said. 

Ron Byers,
  Just because a guy has a bunch (or just more than one) of rifles doesn't make him rich or poor.  I have an old cruddy nagant that counts as a rifle and it'd make a nice fence post for someone. 

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2008, 05:03:58 PM »
I just remembered my brother. He only has one hunting rifle, a 30-06, and he is doing OK.  He has handguns and shotguns and spends a lot of time at the range,  just like we did when we were growing up.  He just doesn't feel the need for more than one rifle. He came to the conclusion years ago that his Remington 700 was all the rifle he needs.

There is an old saying: "never get into a fight with a guy who has only one gun.  He probably knows how to use it."

Offline rickt300

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2008, 05:05:38 PM »
I consider myself "gun poor", certainly not rich but I work hard anyway.  I guess if you really don't care to enjoy many different cartridges and rifles having just on, a 30-06 would work just fine.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2008, 05:49:18 PM »
Quote
Family budgets being what they are most hunters only have one hunting rifle.

Now that's a statistic I'd like to know your source on. I don't know a single person who hunts and has only one hunting rifle. In fact I'm not sure I know anyone personally who has only two of them much less one.

Anyone at all here fit into that category of owning only a single hunting rifle?

No now, but I did for a number of years.  If you don’t count my .22 or the .44 Mag Browning carbine Dad gave me, my 7mm RM was my only big game rifle for over 20 years.  My hunting buddy’s only rifle for a number of years was a 7mm RM but he was given a .30-30 for Christmas a few years back.  Several of my friends still have only one centerfire rifle.
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2008, 06:01:59 PM »
For most people a rifle is a tool. What they love is the hunt. The shot is secondary.  A lot of  those people have decided that a 30-06 is all they need.  

My cousin who owns a cattle ranch in Colorado considers his rifle part of his tack.  He might own more than one rifle, so I won't claim he has only one rifle, but I have never seen him use anything other than his 22-250 or his 30-06.  He uses the 22-250 on varmints and the 30-06 on elk and mule deer.  Like I said he considers a rifle to be part of his tack, some place way down the list.  He thinks a lot more of his saddle than his rifle.  He thinks a lot more of his dog than his horse.  He loves his horse dearly.  For him the rifle, saddle, dog,  horse, truck, and a lot of other stuff are just tools he uses to put food on his family table.  
 

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2008, 06:04:30 PM »
... With reloading the 165 grain bullet can be pushed faster through the 308 than the 30-06 with slightly less powder. At least that is what my CCI reloading manual says.
While the .308 is more efficient with a particular powder charge, in the real world physics rule and there is no free lunch when it comes to velocity.  The .30-06’s extra 23% case capacity allows greater velocity than the  .308 Win can deliver.

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With the Premium designed projectiles anything the old 06 can do the 308 can do as well.  
Again, not in the real world where the .30-06’s greater velocity delivers .308 Win energy an extra 45 yards or so.
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The big diff comes when you go heavy for caliber bullets and above 180 grains the 30-06 pulls ahead.  
Ah, so you agree the .308 CANNOT do everything as well as the .30-06.  
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But they way I look at it.  If you want to shoot a 200 grain or larger bullet for elk, moose or other large beast.  Go bigger diameter.  338 Win Mag or 375 H&H depending on the critter, terrain, and the distance.
For most hunting situations a .30-06 with a 200g bullet, or 220g if you prefer, provides more than enough of the “right stuff” without the recoil of a .338 or .375 magnum.

Quote

I really do not see that much of a differance between any of the calibers based on the 06 case and their counter part based on the 308 case especally of you hand load.

Try running a calculator against various manufacturer’s data and you will soon see the truth that the .30-06 delivers .308 energy a significantly greater distance downrange.

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Offline corbanzo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 06:30:21 PM »
While the .308 is more efficient with a particular powder charge, in the real world physics rule and there is no free lunch when it comes to velocity.  The .30-06’s extra 23% case capacity allows greater velocity than the  .308 Win can deliver.


I have shoved so much powder into an 06 casing... I don't see how the 308 could ever keep up.  I have seen some pretty damn impressive 180 grain loads in the -06....  haven't seen much in the way of 180 grain loads in the 308.... none that really impressed me. 

Of course this only pertains to larger game... for deer, who cares?
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline Tom W.

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2008, 09:58:28 PM »
Me, because my '06 likes 180 grain gamekings....
Tom
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Offline nilescoyote

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2008, 12:22:14 AM »
Could it be that the 30-06 load data is designed around safe load data, to be use in firearms spanning from when the cartridge was created to gas guns past and present. 

If you were to build a 308 and a 30-06 and load both to max safe pressure in "that gun" the 30-06 will out shine the 308 every time in velocity by several FPS to several hundred FPS with the gap getting larger for the heavier bullets.

Accuracy is subjective to the quality built into the individual rifle as well as the shooters abilities.

Both are great calibers. If you are not reloading your own ammo, ammo can be found on selves almost anywhere in this great land for both. Both are capable to take any game in north america. Both will drop game at distances greater than most hunters will ever realize.


Its a win, win. Pick the one that makes you feel the best.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2008, 01:34:02 AM »
Quote
There are more loaded rounds for it than 30-06 but not by many............With reloading the 165 grain bullet can be pushed faster through the 308 than the 30-06 with slightly less powder.

I disagree

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I really do not see that much of a differance between any of the calibers based on the 06 case and their counter part based on the 308 case especally of you hand load.

All the other medium calibers try to approximate the .30-06.  Few are really good at it.

The biggest problem with the .30-06, is that you no longer have a logical reason to own another medium caliber rifle.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2008, 03:13:28 AM »

As to 308 Vs 30-06 I ave a few of each and like the 308 better.  There are more loaded rounds for it than 30-06 but not by many.  …

 A quick survey of Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady and Nosler revealed the following:
Code: [Select]
Cartridge        .308    .30-06
Federal            16      20
Winchester          9      15
Remington          12      21
Hornady            13      17
Nosler              3       3
==============================
Totals             53      76
The difference is there are 43% more loads just with these manufacturers.  I consider that pretty significant.

The greater question is what will you find on dealer shelves in your area.  Certainly not every available load for both cartridges.  In fact, what you will find is loads suitable to hunting the game in the area or for target shooting – the total number of loads is irrelevant if you can find what you need in the smaller subset of loads offered locally or are willing to go online to get what you need.


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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2008, 03:58:29 AM »
Clearly Ron in your family and close circle there seems to be that trend. I'm sure there are others like them out there. I guess I just find it hard to believe tho that such a large percentage of all hunters fit into that category. Partly of course I base it on those I know personally who hunt/shoot but also on the statistics over all.

I believe I've seen stats of there being around 60 million gun owners in the US. I think I've seen the stats on hunters as well but for now can't recall those but certainly a fair bit less as not everyone who owns guns hunt. Still the number of guns in the hands of gun owners in the US is hugely in excess of that showing that for each gun owner there are ten or fifteen guns in their hands perhaps even more as there really are no good accurate stats on just how many guns Americans own only on how many have been produced and legally imported and even those are likely not real accurate.

I suppose my oldest son comes the closest of anyone I know who hunts to your one per hunter stat and even he has a couple and he's kinda looking for another or may have already picked up his third.

I'm far from rich and never have been more than a poor working stiff in my pre retirement days. I've been retired and living on a rather fixed income now since '95 but that hasn't kept me from purchasing and trading for a bunch of guns over those retirement years. These days new ones come via trading more often than outright purchase but still some do come home via the straight purchase route. I dare say it's highly likely your income is quite a bit higher than mine cuz as I said I'm retired and don't work and haven't for a lot of years.


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Offline yooper77

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 04:25:03 AM »
I love them both.  Any cartridge that come from the parents of 308 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield are tops in my book.

I am not a magnum rifle cartridge fan, because the 30-06 Springfield can do the same job for me.

I have it covered for big game hunting with my 243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 30-06 Springfield & 7mm-08 Remington (pistol)

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Offline rex6666

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 08:40:00 AM »
I have always had an 06 and always will, JUST BECAUSE it will do anything
i need done with factory ammo. I also have a 280 which will handle any deer
situation i feel i will every have. I am with GB here why would a person have only 1 deer rifle, and bet their are very few of those people.
GB when i inherit the millions i will adopt you.( if you remember the post.)
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2008, 12:16:58 PM »
Yup I remember it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2008, 05:42:49 PM »
Graybeard

There are about 60 million gun owners in America. They own about 300,000,000 firearms, or about 5 firearms per gun owner. I think your assumption that there are 10 or 15 firearms per gun owner is off the mark. It is still a big number. I am not convinced about these statistics because they indicate that over 90% of all  gun owners are men.  My guess is that some larger percentage are owned by women who defer claims of ownership to their husbands so the total number of gun owners might be higher than 60 million.  I know that 50% of all households possess a firearm of some sort.  That means about half of all adults can easily lay their hands on a firearm stored somewhere around the house. 

Firearm is a pretty broad term including handguns, shotguns, rimfire rifles, muzzleloaders and centerfire rifles. 

In 2001 there were about 13,000,000 active hunters in the United States. Ten million or so were deer hunters.  I haven't seen data since then. Here is the address  library.fws.gov/nat_survey2001_deerhunting.pdf . Really interesting stuff.  I was surprised by the number of hunters who use primitive weapons. Bows or muzzleloaders or both.  Of course, most of the primitive weapon hunters also hunt during rifle season. Some of them use their primitive weapon. I am going hunting this year with a guy who has decided to leave his 270 behind. He is using his muzzleloader instead. He says he finds hunting with his 270 too easy.  For many really avid deer hunters the firearm is secondary to the hunt. Instead of a second deer rifle they are probably plunking down serious money on a bow or a deer stand or maybe a muzzleloader.  You only use a centerfire a week or two a year.  A bow or a muzzleloader extends the season.   If you want evidence of just how popular archery and muzzleloader hunting is, just watch the outdoor channel.  Every other show seems to feature a bow or black powder hunter.

Some percentage of the 10,000,000 use a shotgun instead of a centerfire rifle. They are mostly Eastern hunters.

Anyway I am still looking for statistics indicating the number of centerfire rifles in America, but I bet it is a smaller percentage of the 300,000,000 firearms in America than the percentage of shotguns, handguns or rimfire rifles.   I haven't found the statistics proving or disproving either of our arguments yet.  They are both in play, but I have to tell you I still think that there are a lot fewer owners of multiple deer rifles than you think but I am now pretty sure that the number is higher than I originally thought. 

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2008, 03:42:44 AM »
I own 48 firearms, 2 bows, and a crossbow. I like them. .17cal  to .50 cal I like them all, but I do believe the old .30-06 is probably the best all around choice. And not only because of its performance which is very good.

I think its because of it is everywhere, versatile, and it works.

I need to scratch an itch to have more rifles and handguns, Thats why I don't have a .30-06 yet.
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Offline oldandslow

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2008, 05:24:44 AM »
Quote
Family budgets being what they are most hunters only have one hunting rifle.

Now that's a statistic I'd like to know your source on. I don't know a single person who hunts and has only one hunting rifle. In fact I'm not sure I know anyone personally who has only two of them much less one.

Anyone at all here fit into that category of owning only a single hunting rifle?

Well, not really, although for deer and elk I only own one. It's an '06. My wife only has one and it is an '06 also. Her's is pretty heavy. I know because I've carried it quite a few miles for her.

I do have a brother in law who has only one hunting rifle. It is an '06 and he has killed a lot of deer and elk with it over the years as he was a serious hunter until recently. He hung it up last year because of age.

One comment on the '06, .308 subject. I hunted several years with a close friend until work took him to another state. He used a .308 while I carried the '06. In the real world of deer hunting we could tell no difference in the performance of either one. Shoot a deer where you are supposed to with either and it died right there.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2008, 05:55:50 AM »
Quote
I think your assumption that there are 10 or 15 firearms per gun owner is off the mark.


I looked back and read thru my posts. I just don't see anywhere I said that or even hinted at it. I did say I thought more HUNTERS had closer to a half dozen than they did only one. I still believe that. I also said not all firearm owners are hunters and that's definitely true. But just taking hunters as a category and deer hunters as a sub category of that group I feel more have multiple deer hunting long guns than one. Yes in some places those must be shotguns due to the restrictions placed on them but over all far more hunt with rifle than shotgun for deer. Some of us even use handguns and yet in spite of it I have far more than the single rifle for the task. Heck I have more than one rifle I've not even removed from the box yet after bring it home.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2008, 08:47:00 AM »
I found this in Reply 42.

"Still the number of guns in the hands of gun owners in the US is hugely in excess of that showing that for each gun owner there are ten or fifteen guns in their hands perhaps even more as there really are no good accurate stats on just how many guns Americans own only on how many have been produced and legally imported and even those are likely not real accurate."

I think that is your post.  :)

Offline yooper77

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2008, 08:56:15 AM »
I have read somewhere that all firearm manufactures will always chamber their rifles in 30-06 Springfield if they want there sales to succeed.

Firearm, ammo and reloading die sales all contribute to the overall total sales number for the most popular cartridge statistics.

yooper77

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2008, 09:04:09 AM »
Something strikes me doing all this research.  A lot of gun owners realize that there are a lot of guns floating around our society, but they don't realize just how many gun owners there are.  They think gun ownership is pretty narrow, with those owning guns owning a lot of them, but the statistic that one out of two households has at least one firearm is overwhelming in its implications. Gun ownership in America is extremely broad.  Gun ownership is so broad that no politician could ever successfully advance the kind of national "gun control" so common in Europe or Asia.  The NRA has little to fear. 

UPDATE: I have seen statistics indicating that gun ownership is not confined to any particular party.  While a lot of Republicans own firearms, so do a lot of Democrats. Conservatives and liberals alike own and enjoy firearms.   

Offline nodlenor

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2008, 02:15:53 PM »
Baseball, Apple pie, & the 30-06.
Self government without self discipline will not work; Paul Harvey

Offline Swampman

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2008, 03:14:47 PM »
Quote
Gun ownership is so broad that no politician could ever successfully advance the kind of national "gun control" so common in Europe or Asia.  The NRA has little to fear.

The most dangerous myth we can perpetrate.  I see no reason to believe this at all.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2008, 03:26:42 PM »
Quote
Gun ownership is so broad that no politician could ever successfully advance the kind of national "gun control" so common in Europe or Asia.  The NRA has little to fear.

The most dangerous myth we can perpetrate.  I see no reason to believe this at all.

Do the math.  What politician could survive when one out of two households has a firearm?   That is why you don't really hear anybody calling for a national ban on firearms. It is a political non-starter.  

Offline corbanzo

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2008, 04:37:39 PM »
I have read somewhere that all firearm manufactures will always chamber their rifles in 30-06 Springfield if they want there sales to succeed.

Firearm, ammo and reloading die sales all contribute to the overall total sales number for the most popular cartridge statistics.

yooper77

If you made a good -06 rifle competitively priced, and that was it, I'm sure that you could succeed pretty well for yourself.

One comment on the '06, .308 subject. I hunted several years with a close friend until work took him to another state. He used a .308 while I carried the '06. In the real world of deer hunting we could tell no difference in the performance of either one. Shoot a deer where you are supposed to with either and it died right there.

Yeah, a deer isn't going to tell you the difference.  Many hunters also say a .223 is a good deer rifle.  You start going out after bigger game, you see the difference. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline charles p

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2008, 02:17:42 PM »
Because you can't get a 30-06 in the Rem Model 7.  The Mod 7 is a little lighter and shorter, and just easier to carry and shoot.  Took me 35 years to learn this lesson.

Offline Sweet 6.5

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2008, 06:54:07 PM »
Hi

Thanks for all the replies! I then have to presume the 300 Winmag is better than
a 30-06 because of all the reasons mentioned here - except for the amount of
rifles per gun owner - recoil not too bad, just little more cost, flying flatter, hitting harder!!
 ;D

Just kidding

Cheers


Offline Swampman

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Re: Why a 30-06?
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2008, 01:39:57 AM »
I don't care for the .300 Win. Mag. much.  My next stop on the way up after the .30-06, is the .375H&H.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aasttopriflecar.htm
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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