Author Topic: Why a 30-06? (Read 8187 times)

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #60 on:** October 24, 2008, 02:23:56 AM »

The recoil from a .300 Win mag just rips me----recoil from a .338 mag seems more tolerable.

Not sure why that is.

I avoid the .300 magnums like the plague. The .30-06 is good to go.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #61 on:** October 24, 2008, 02:59:00 AM »

Could somebody explain why you would buy a .300 Win mag? A lot of people buy them so there must be a reason.

teddy12b · « **Reply #62 on:** October 24, 2008, 03:06:22 AM »

I think they were more popular back in the day. Now a 30-06 can do what an old 300 win mag could do. People still buy a 300 win mag just because it has a popular name among elk hunters. I'll be the first to admit that I've thought about buying a 300 win mag in the past, but I didn't want to mess around with reloading a belted cartridge for some reason.

My 30-06 gets a 168gr barnes tipped tsx at 3000 fps without any pressure signs. That's right in there with what a 300 win mag can do, so why buy one and just be getting the extra recoil.

John R. · « **Reply #63 on:** October 24, 2008, 04:10:22 AM »

What powder are you using to get 3000 fps with a 168 gr. bullet. My old 06 seems to shoot a tad slow with most powders I've tried.

oldandslow · « **Reply #64 on:** October 24, 2008, 05:03:29 AM »

Quote from: Sweet 6.5 on October 23, 2008, 06:54:07 PM

Hi

Thanks for all the replies! I then have to presume the 300 Winmag is better than
a 30-06 because of all the reasons mentioned here - except for the amount of
rifles per gun owner - recoil not too bad, just little more cost, flying flatter, hitting harder!!

Just kidding

Cheers

I"m glad you are just kidding. When you get enough years and miles on you recoil does matter. I don't enjoy shooting my '06 anymore because of arteritis in my shoulders and it hurts. I wouldn't even consider shooting a .300 Win Mag.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #65 on:** October 24, 2008, 05:36:23 AM »

Although this topic has been around for the last 50 years or so, as I remember,

it's always a good one! And this is the only thread I remember that I agreed with what's said in every post. Lots a good opinions, each valid, so Mr. OP, unless you have a strong preference for one over the other, it would seem all you have to do is find a great deal on a rifle and as long as it's in either cartridge you're good to go!

Now for my 2 cents...

Sorry, I always got something to say.

Remember now, growing up I read everything J.O'C wrote; several times! He said it, I believed it, no argument about it! And although most people associate him with the .270, as I remember he was actually quite fond of the 30/06. He once said something to the effect that he didn't see any reason for the .308 in a bolt action rifle. Also, Elinore, who generally used a 7x57, used a 30/06 as her "big" rifle for Tigers, the big bears and such. Quite a recommendation.

That fact notwithstanding, I've never been able to keep a 30/06 sporter long. A M70 Featherweight was re-barreled to 270 and a sporterized 1903 was rebored/rerifled to 338/06. The ones before that just disappeared.

Sometime in '06 I realized I didn't have an '06 sporter so picked up a used M700 Mountain Rifle in that caliber for a good price. Cleaned it up, it seemed like it wanted to shoot, I did what I normally do to my bolt guns and now it shoots just about whatever I feed it into very small groups. That is just what I remember about my 30/06's; they generally shoot good and whatever I hit with them dies. The cartridge is steady, reliable and boring in it's suitability as a g.p. round.

Counting that M700 I own one sporting rifle in each caliber; 30/06 and .308. I've got a lot more 7.62's and 30 cal's in military guise but that's not the subject here. I also own one belted magnum; a 300WM. My philosophy is, pick a velocity you like, mine is 2800 fps +/- 100 fps or so, and work up a load for a given bullet weight: i.e. .308/150 gr @2800 fps +/-. If I feel the need for something with a little more or less "whack," I go up or down a cartridge or so. i.e 30-06/165 gr. @ 2800 fps +/-, or 300 WM/180 gr. @ 2800 fps +/-. Is this logical? maybe... Is it reasonable? could be... do I adhere to it? almost never!

But what the heck... a man got to have a basis for his actions!

And this sounds reasonable to my wife when I'm spending money trying to round out my stable of rifles in any caliber; 25, 26, 28, and so on.

My 308 is a M99A that has never shot as well as I would like. I've killed a number of deer with it and it does a great job, and works just as well at 300 Savage levels. I have another M700 that started out as a .308, but is a .260 now, much better use for a short action... Ol' Jack would be proud of me!

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #66 on:** October 24, 2008, 05:55:13 AM »

I think on reason the .300 Winmag was so popular was because of the .300 Weatherby mag. When Weatherby was endorsing his new .300 he gave several to big name celebraties caught helped to popularize and market the caliber. John Wayne was one of them... The .300 winmag probably road the coatails of the .300 weatherby marketing popularity.

teddy12b · « **Reply #67 on:** October 24, 2008, 06:37:48 AM »

Quote from: John R. on October 24, 2008, 04:10:22 AM

What powder are you using to get 3000 fps with a 168 gr. bullet. My old 06 seems to shoot a tad slow with most powders I've tried.

I'm using IMR 4350 in lapua cases. In the case of getting 3000 fps I can get the same thing with a 168gr matchking as well. It's a compressed load, but it's as much powder as can be possibly put in that case and still get a bullet in it too. The load I used I worked up every .5gr and never saw a pressure sign at all. You can compare the highest pressure empty brass to the lowest pressure empty brass and you can't see anything different.

federali · « **Reply #68 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:09:43 AM »

There's little practical difference between the .308 and .30-06 regarding us hunters. But, the .308 was designed from the ground up to function in semi and full auto weapons. .308s make more efficient use of the powder and are also a bit more accurate than 06s, all else being equal. For this reason, you'll find lots of .308 sniper rifles in police arsenals but no .30-06s. .308s function in short action guns and levers but a .30-06 can handle a heavier bullet if needed.

John R. · « **Reply #69 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:45:31 AM »

The last load I tried with IMR 4350 was 60 grs. with a 150 gr. Accubond, and it was only running 2850 fps. That rifle (a 1963 model 700 30-06) has always run a little slow. With 57 grs. of IMR 4350 and a 165 gr. Bal Tip it gave 2725 fps. I was hoping for at least 2800. This rifle has a long throat in it, which may be part of the problem. It shoots under an inch though, so I can't complain to much.

kiddekop · « **Reply #70 on:** October 28, 2008, 05:36:34 PM »

I have a Sako 30-06 I've used for Columbian Blacktail & Mule Deer but I also have a Sako 300wm that I've used for elk .I shot a mule deer doe with the 300wm at over 600 yards(180gr Sierra GameKing,72gr of IMR 4831,Rem 9 1/2 Mag primer in Rem brass) some guys saw me driving in with the doe in the back of my scrambler and asked where I shot the very large doe in CO ,w/o thinking I blurted out the area & the next year when I went to my honey hole migration route there were campers,tents,motorhomes in every space on hill.

Brithunter · « **Reply #71 on:** October 28, 2008, 11:06:52 PM »

Quote from: Singleshotsam on October 24, 2008, 05:55:13 AM

I think on reason the .300 Winmag was so popular was because of the .300 Weatherby mag. When Weatherby was endorsing his new .300 he gave several to big name celebraties caught helped to popularize and market the caliber. John Wayne was one of them... The .300 winmag probably road the coatails of the .300 weatherby marketing popularity.

Oh I loved this one

Winchester developed the 300 Win Mag to produce velocities equal or better than the the original .300 magnum , the .30 Super which was later re-named to .300 Holland & Holland Magnum but in a short action. As let's face it there was a short action craze going on then. The 300 Win Mag fits in a normal rifle action and does not require a magnum length action. I doubt that Roy Weatherby and his vastly over rated cartridges had anything to do with the popularity of the .300 Winchester Magnum.

As to the Weathernby's claimed popularity

I wonder how many they actually sold back then? let's face it not any people own one even now as they are over priced and vastly over rated. If as claimed they were so popular and so many poeple brought them then Weatherby would have been a bigger concern than Winchester which of course was not the case.

Now as to the recoil of the 300 Win Mag

yes it's more than a 30-06 due tot he laws of Physics. If you propell a bullet at a higher velocity it will produce more recoil so if you load up an 06 to 300 Win Mag velocities in a similar weight rifle the recoil will be the same. Felt recoil is slightly different in that the stock design plays a huge part in how the recoil is felt

. I actually quite like the 300 Win Mag although i wish it had more neck

damn marketing types

but don't have one right now as the rifle had to go in trade to swing a deal for something else, a one off rifle custom made, but I kept the dies cases etc for when I acquire another 300 Win Mag

it's a versatile cartridge but oen that I don't really need for my hunting here in the UK.

yooper77 · « **Reply #72 on:** October 29, 2008, 01:43:37 AM »

Roy Weatherby came out with the 300 Weatherby Magnum 15 years before Winchester came out with the 300 Winchester Magnum and 10 years before the 338 Winchester Magnum.

The 300 Weatherby Magnum is simply a 300 H&H Magnum with the improved Weatherby shoulder.

The 300 Winchester is a redesign of the 338 Winchester Magnum.

In my opinion the 300 Weatherby Magnum greatly influenced the belted magnum craze and was the most versatile cartridge of it kind.

My father which was born in 1923 and talked to me about the 300 Weatherby Magnum, so it was bought and people loved it as they still do today.

Today a Weatherby Mark V in 300 Weatherby can be bought used or new as a very good bargain if the person has patients and shops around.

If I were to take a bite of the belted magnum world, I would look no further than the 300 Weatherby Magnum.

As for 30 calibers, my 30-06 Springfield does it all for me, so no need to change.

yooper77

Brithunter · « **Reply #73 on:** October 29, 2008, 01:48:21 PM »

Hmmm let's see Weatherby took some one elses idea, the Ventury shoulder, and with clever marketing made a small fortune. He actually had no original ideas him self but was an awsome salesman who could have sold snow to eskimos. I don't think Weatherby make or made anything themselves either and I still sya their vastly over rated and vastly over priced.

Tunaman · « **Reply #74 on:** October 29, 2008, 02:36:38 PM »

Quote from: Brithunter on October 29, 2008, 01:48:21 PM

Hmmm let's see Weatherby took some one elses idea, the Ventury shoulder, and with clever marketing made a small fortune. He actually had no original ideas him self but was an awsome salesman who could have sold snow to eskimos. I don't think Weatherby make or made anything themselves either and I still sya their vastly over rated and vastly over priced.

I politely disagree. In the states, Weatherby fills a niche in the market that is otherwise left unfilled. The Market is for guys that don't want a wildcat but want performance superior to what is available in a standard offering. I own a couple of Roy rifles and I have to say that I am pretty happy with both. As for Roy just being a salesman, I disagree. Just like Griffin and Howe and the like, He got his start working on Surplus Rifles and they were highly thought of. He may not be an originator but I still consider him an innovator.

Swampman · « **Reply #75 on:** October 29, 2008, 02:42:13 PM »

At one time Roy Weatherby himself made rifles, and they are good ones. They remind me of an old Cadillac, but I like them all the same.

I passed on an old one several years ago, and I've been kicking myself ever since. It was a .270.

It was marked Hollywood, CA.

It even had a nice Weatherby scope and they were only asking $500.00. It was as shiny as a bowling alley!

Brithunter · « **Reply #76 on:** October 29, 2008, 10:51:28 PM »

Hmmm so now ole Roy also made scopes in his garage??

yep I know he screwed some one else's barrel on an FN action and with a stock made to his specs had a rifle

sounds like a shade tree smith don't it

as I ahve said before even the ideas of the velocities he was tryign to achieve were not new. Newton adn Ross at least were decades before him and both of them at least made their OWN rifles and even to their own design.

Swampman · « **Reply #77 on:** October 29, 2008, 11:58:23 PM »

Quote

Hmmm so now ole Roy also made scopes in his garage??

I didn't say that, but he did make rifles and I think he deserves credit for being a pioneer.

The .30-06 is still the best cartridge in the world. Nothing can change that. America is still the greatest country in the world and will be as long as the world still exist.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #78 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:25:25 AM »

Why the fight over Roy Weatherby? The guy produced great rifles and he knew how to build a brand. I don't think he ever claimed to be John Moses Browning or Samuel Colt. He is more like Arthur Savage, who was a good businessman with an inventive mind.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #79 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:28:09 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 29, 2008, 11:58:23 PM

...
The .30-06 is still the best cartridge in the world. Nothing can change that. America is still the greatest country in the world and will be as long as the world still exist.

Once again, "best" requires definition. Different people have different requirements and what is "best" for them changes accordingly.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #80 on:** October 30, 2008, 03:46:11 AM »

Quote from: Singleshotsam on October 24, 2008, 05:55:13 AM

I think on reason the .300 Winmag was so popular was because of the .300 Weatherby mag. When Weatherby was endorsing his new .300 he gave several to big name celebraties caught helped to popularize and market the caliber. John Wayne was one of them... The .300 winmag probably road the coatails of the .300 weatherby marketing popularity.

Quote from: Brithunter on October 28, 2008, 11:06:52 PM

Oh I loved this one Winchester developed the 300 Win Mag to produce velocities equal or better than the the original .300 magnum , the .30 Super which was later re-named to .300 Holland & Holland Magnum but in a short action. As let's face it there was a short action craze going on then. The 300 Win Mag fits in a normal rifle action and does not require a magnum length action. I doubt that Roy Weatherby and his vastly over rated cartridges had anything to do with the popularity of the .300 Winchester Magnum.

As to the Weathernby's claimed popularity I wonder how many they actually sold back then? let's face it not any people own one even now as they are over priced and vastly over rated. If as claimed they were so popular and so many poeple brought them then Weatherby would have been a bigger concern than Winchester which of course was not the case.
…

Have to disagree with you on this one, Brit Guy. Weatherby did a great job of marketing his products. There is no doubt in my mind that the .300 Win Mags success was in part due to the environment created by Weatherby which touted magnum performance. With the introduction of the .300 Win consumers could suddenly have magnum performance in a standard-length action at a much more affordable price. That is not to say the .300 Win Mag would have been a failure without Weatherby’s activities, but rather that in many ways the .300 WM was a poor man’s Weatherby.

I say this having never owned a Weatherby rifle or any rifle chambered for a Weatherby cartridge. Probably never will, either, as I am rather indifferent about both.

Brithunter · « **Reply #81 on:** October 30, 2008, 08:06:42 AM »

As this has wandered off course from the original post I will refrain from answering and just get back to the OP:-

Because

The rest has already been said!

kiddekop · « **Reply #82 on:** October 30, 2008, 09:40:56 AM »

Quote from: Coyote Hunter on October 30, 2008, 03:28:09 AM

Quote from: Swampman on October 29, 2008, 11:58:23 PM
...
The .30-06 is still the best cartridge in the world. Nothing can change that. America is still the greatest country in the world and will be as long as the world still exist.

Once again, "best" requires definition. Different people have different requirements and what is "best" for them changes accordingly.

The 30-06 is the most popular USA elk cartridge followed by the 300wm and 7mm mag.

Swampman · « **Reply #83 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:09:30 AM »

It is the best cartridge in the world. The only other one that is even close is the .375 H&H.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #84 on:** October 30, 2008, 10:13:19 AM »

Quote from: kiddekop on October 30, 2008, 09:40:56 AM

The 30-06 is the most popular USA elk cartridge followed by the 300wm and 7mm mag.

Got min in the exact reverse order (7mm RM in '82, .300 in 2004, three .30-06s since) and they all work. I do have to say I believe the 7mm and .300 drop elk with more authority.

Nevertheless, tomorrow I take of for another glorius week of elk hunting. My future son-in-law will be using my Savage .30-06 (to be a wedding present on the Big Day) while I will be using my Remington .30-06. Both will be pushing 168g TTSX at around 2825fps.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #85 on:** October 30, 2008, 11:06:49 AM »

WOW,
I've heard of a Shotgun wedding and even offering to give both barrels but have never heard of a rifle wedding.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #86 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:10:57 PM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on October 30, 2008, 11:06:49 AM

WOW,
I've heard of a Shotgun wedding and even offering to give both barrels but have never heard of a rifle wedding.

I like the kid.

Mr. Joe · « **Reply #87 on:** November 02, 2008, 09:05:47 AM »

I fall into the camp of the .308. Honestly, there is nothing you can do with a .30-06 that you cant do with a .308. I have found however, that a .308 can acomplish all of these things with less powder, recoil, and in a short action. The .308 has proven its self more acurate so i wont even go there.(dont beleive me, go to a match somtime and count the -06s) I load 150s to 2900, and 180s from 2600-2750. My .06 is about that same +/- 75 fps. If anything more than that is needed, you need a larger gun than a -06 or .308. There is not enough difference here to make any bit of difference at all...unless your swampman of course.

Swampman · « **Reply #88 on:** November 02, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »

Quote

There is not enough difference here to make any bit of difference at all...

Unless you read numbers in the reloading manuals.......

BBF · « **Reply #89 on:** November 02, 2008, 12:47:18 PM »

I've had a Ruger # 1 in 375 H&H. besides several other belted types. Why I ever bought it I never know since I didn't make it to the dark continent or any other place that has DG to hunt. That Ruger # 1 tTropical is not a light rifle and the recoil of that cartridge is a lot more then any 30-06 less you can find one that weighs 3 lb.