Why a 30-06?

[sachel.45]

unless you want to use bullets over 180 grains i have yet to see any factory 200 or 220 grain bullets in the 308. honestly if you take a 308 and an 06 and build them to the same match quality i dont think you'll see that much(if any) diffrence

[Freezer]

   Greaybead, I love this site but I was one of those broke butts once apon a time.  I had a model 94 Win 30/30 that I bought when I was 14 and never had the money for anything else!  While I raised my kids in a city I gave up hunting for 15 yrs.  Thanks to a great man on the net I found a Rem 700 in 280 with a floated barrel, glassed action and a trigger job for $100.  I'll thank God till the day I die for that man and when I die some broke butt just like me will get that gun not my kids!(though they may be in my same boat).  It's my long range gun with a 4x12 leupold. 
   My Savae 99f in 308 is now my money gun. it wears a 2x7 leupold.  What can I say 308 is great!

[roper]

unless you want to use bullets over 180 grains i have yet to see any factory 200 or 220 grain bullets in the 308. honestly if you take a 308 and an 06 and build them to the same match quality i dont think you'll see that much(if any) diffrence

If you build a custom 308 and 30-06 accuracy they should shoot pretty close.  You cann't put enough powder in a 308 case to equal or come close to the velocity of a 30-06 in equal bullet weight in a custom rifle.  You can use  a longer barrel with a 30-06 to take advantage of the case capacity over the 308 case.  My question is in a custom rifle why would you want to download a 30-06 to match the 308 using bullets less than 180gr?

Hammond build me a real nice tight neck 308 that I used in the HBR game with 168gr match bullets about 15yrs ago and I shorten the 308 case for the 30x44,30x47 and 30 IHMSA so I have somewhat of a limited knowledge using a 308.  I've got a Lilja barrel 30-06 on a Rem action my 2nd 30-06 on a Win action used a Bartlein 5r barrel and my 3rd 30-06 using a Shilen barrel that rifle is still at the gunsmiths.

In the real world if I could of used a 308 case to get what I get out of the 30-06 I'd of used the 308 case and you can load the 308 to a higher pressure level (SAAMI Spec) than the 30-06.  If you up the pressure in the 30-06 to equal the 308 quess what higher velocity.  I took a pretty nice buck back in the mid 60's with a Savage 99 in 308 and I took a pretty nice one here with the Lilja barrel 30-06 this year.

Don't get me wrong the 308 is a great round I keep thinking about build one for the BIB 112/18gr bullets.

[teddy12b]

It always comes down to the same things:

Long action vs short action:  Who really cares, it's 3/4"?
Powder used to reload:  308 takes a little less, but not any significant amount.
Velocity:  My 30-06 maxes out around 3,000fps with a 168gr bullet, what's maxed out 308 do?  Probably close enough that it's not a big difference.
Bullet Weight:  I've read that the 30-06 does better with heavier bullets, but no animal is going to complain that you used a 150gr bullet over a 200gr bullet.
Accuracy:  More match guys use the 308 and I think it has more to do with the expenses of reloading a 308 are much less than a 30-06 in the brass department.

They both work just fine and I don't understand why these "which one is better debates" happen every couple weeks.

[Swampman]

I would never choose the 150 grain bullet for anything larger than deer.  The 165 is my deer bullet.  The 180 & up is the best elk/moose medicine.

[yooper77]

I have some old Hornady 220 grain round nose bullets I am going to try in my 30-06 Springfield, to see how they fly.

Other than that I load 150 and 180 grain bullets for anything from Antelope to Elk.

yooper77

[Mr. Joe]

I dont know, i just dont see 150-50fps making any difference in the game fields.  Use what you like, but dont think one is *magically* better.  I don't think there is any need for a bullet of over 180gr. in either cartridge, especially with today's premium projectiles.  They are way to close to declare either a clear winner as far as performance goes.  If you need more power, use a .300 win mag. 

[Swampman]

I can't see any logical reason to choose the .308.

[deltecs]

Let's look at the difference between a 30-06 and .308 Win.  Some claim little or not enough difference with the same bullets to effectively kill game.  Would those same claims be said of the difference between a .300 Win and the 30-06?  If the answer is yes, then the answer to the difference between the 30-06 jand .308 Win is yes.  If the answer is no when loaded to comparable pressures, then the answer between the 30-06 and .308 Win is no.  I for one think there is a difference between all 3 rounds.  However, if I cannot do it with a 30-06, then it is time to move to a bigger bore, not a faster velocity.

[Mr. Joe]

I think the biggest difference between the .30-06 and the .300 win mag is the larger cased .300 mags ability to launch 180 grain pills well over 3000fps with out pushing things.  Neither the .308 or the .30-06 can come close to those numbers over a chronograph.

[deltecs]

I think the biggest difference between the .30-06 and the .300 win mag is the larger cased .300 mags ability to launch 180 grain pills well over 3000fps with out pushing things.  Neither the .308 or the .30-06 can come close to those numbers over a chronograph.

That is within the velocity limits of difference between the 30-06 and .308 Win, so if there is no difference in between the .308 Win and 30-06,  then this difference is insignificant.  I'm not in disagreement with you, but just distinguishing the same differences in velocity between the 30-06 and .308 Win.  I do think 150-200 fps do make a difference. 

[Mr. Joe]

I have had trouble in my 06' with a 22inch bbl, surpassing 2750 fps without flat primers and hard extraction.  My 300 win mag with a 24 inch barrel will hit 3100 fps with no pressure signs.  Both with 180 gr. projectiles of course.  My .308 with a 22 inch tube will hit 2600-2650 on the hot side with 180s. 

These velocities are taken over a chronograph 10 feet in front of the muzzle.  I show a significantly closer spread between the .308 and the .30-06 than i do between the .30-06 and the .300 win mag.  I personally feel that if a clean kill cannot be made with a .308 or .30-06, that its time to step up to a .338 win mag or .340 weatherby.  Since as of yet, ive not had the opportunity to hunt any dangerous game, i tend to stick to the less recoiling non-magnums *generally*.

[deltecs]

Well, if one were to use a 24" barrel in the 06 and the chambers miked the same difference between case sizes and using comparable pressures, then there is not as much discrepancy between the 06 and 300.  Yes, admittedly there is a difference, but all I'm saying is that the difference between the 2 of them is almost identical to the difference between an 06 and .308.  I tend not use belted mags myself as I've never found a reason yet for having the belt whatsoever in modern rifle cartridges.  Weatherby started the marketing trend between high velocity mags by blowing out .375 H&H brass and rounding the shoulder for a more complete combustion burn and raising pressures.  Marketing technique only.  Winchester got into the marketing with its .458-264 Win mags in the 50's.  Since then the trend until recently, has been to market velocity and thus increased energy as the ideal weapons for hunters.  I'm not convinced.  The modern 30-06 loadings are the same loading ballistics, as the venerable .300 H&H as loaded originally.  It had the reputation for putting down game reliably, so the 30-06 with its modern loading should do the same with the same bullets.  What more does one need for almost all of NA hunting? 

[Mr. Joe]

Less recoil!  All kidding aside, i dont use the belted guys too much myself.  I do have a 7 mag that i adore, but i typically hunt with a hand loaded 7x57 or a hand loaded .260.  Neither have ever left anything to be desired, and their recoil is minimal to say the least.

[yooper77]

I have had trouble in my 06' with a 22inch bbl, surpassing 2750 fps without flat primers and hard extraction.  My 300 win mag with a 24 inch barrel will hit 3100 fps with no pressure signs.  Both with 180 gr. projectiles of course.  My .308 with a 22 inch tube will hit 2600-2650 on the hot side with 180s. 

These velocities are taken over a chronograph 10 feet in front of the muzzle.  I show a significantly closer spread between the .308 and the .30-06 than i do between the .30-06 and the .300 win mag.  I personally feel that if a clean kill cannot be made with a .308 or .30-06, that its time to step up to a .338 win mag or .340 weatherby.  Since as of yet, ive not had the opportunity to hunt any dangerous game, i tend to stick to the less recoiling non-magnums *generally*.

Dead Elk or Moose or Deer for all the above within 300 yards with no problem.

You shoot either of these animals with the loads above and you have one dead animal, you couldn't tell one from another.

Just curious:
Is your 30-06 with 22" barrel at 2750 fps the most accurate load you developed?
-What powder are you using, case, primer and bullet?

yooper77

[Mr. Joe]

No, its not my most accurate.  My .30-06 tends to favor lighter projectiles more along the lines of the 165.  I use Remington brass and  CCI primers for pretty much everything though.  As for what type of powder i use for the heavys, Ive had my best luck with IMR 4350 for the heavy bullet weights and H4895 for the 150s.  I have to say though, i have found the .30-06 a very enjoyable cartridge to load for. Its not picky with components, and there are recopies for most any powder. 

[slim rem 7]

 well this an interesting thread.. if i see my dream buck someday.. i want my 06 and its favorite ld.. i don t want to mess up that day..
 and i won t with that gun..thats why my 30 06 is in my hands if im hunting deer, no hogs aroundhere that i know of.

[tracker370]

I hunted black bear up in New Brunswick this past October. Seven hunters in camp:

2 with bows
1 with 45-70
1 with 7mm-08
3 with 30-06
 

[Coyote Hunter]

I can't see any logical reason to choose the .308.

Of course, assuming you want a smaller, lighter rifle, like a Ruger Compact or others, or just want lower recoil factory loads would NEVER be good reasons.

[Coyote Hunter]

Well, if one were to use a 24" barrel in the 06 and the chambers miked the same difference between case sizes and using comparable pressures, then there is not as much discrepancy between the 06 and 300.  Yes, admittedly there is a difference, but all I'm saying is that the difference between the 2 of them is almost identical to the difference between an 06 and .308.  I tend not use belted mags myself as I've never found a reason yet for having the belt whatsoever in modern rifle cartridges.  Weatherby started the marketing trend between high velocity mags by blowing out .375 H&H brass and rounding the shoulder for a more complete combustion burn and raising pressures.  Marketing technique only.  Winchester got into the marketing with its .458-264 Win mags in the 50's.  Since then the trend until recently, has been to market velocity and thus increased energy as the ideal weapons for hunters.  I'm not convinced.  The modern 30-06 loadings are the same loading ballistics, as the venerable .300 H&H as loaded originally.  It had the reputation for putting down game reliably, so the 30-06 with its modern loading should do the same with the same bullets.  What more does one need for almost all of NA hunting? 

If you take Nosler 6th data and compare max loads for the .30-06 and .300 WM using 165-168g bullets, there is a difference of 288fps.  With Barnes #4 the difference is 294fps.

Using the Barnes data with 165MRX bullets  and zero both for a maximum 3” rise (which is how I do all my bolt guns), the .300 Win Mag delivers an extra 45-50 yards for a given drop (-17.9” @ 445 vs -17.5” @ 400), and an extra 185 yards at  1500fpe (1509fpe @ 645 yds vs 1506fpe @ 460 yds).

Some people don’t find such numbers compelling, and for many applications they are not.  When long range shots may be involved, however, such numbers become more important.  I’m perfectly happy carrying my .30-30 in some situations and shoot my .30-06 out to 500 yards.  Beyond that, however, I prefer my .300 WM.

[Swampman]

Of course, assuming you want a smaller, lighter rifle, like a Ruger Compact or others, or just want lower recoil factory loads would NEVER be good reasons.

The Ruger Compact isn't light enough to matter (at least) logically.  The recoil is the same as the .30-06, it's a simple matter of physics.

In something like an New Ultra Light Arms rifle it might make sense to choose the .308.  It's actually light enough to be a logical choice for weight savings.

The next logical choice after the .30-06 is the .375H&H.  You have to jump that far to get into the next sized game catergory.

[Cement Man]

Of course, assuming you want a smaller, lighter rifle, like a Ruger Compact or others, or just want lower recoil factory loads would NEVER be good reasons.

The Ruger Compact isn't light enough to matter (at least) logically.  The recoil is the same as the .30-06, it's a simple matter of physics.

In something like an New Ultra Light Arms rifle it might make sense to choose the .308.  It's actually light enough to be a logical choice for weight savings.

The next logical choice after the .30-06 is the .375H&H.  You have to jump that far to get into the next sized game catergory.

I find the Ruger compact much better to carry in thick stuff, deep snow, trees, etc.  I love short, light, effective rifles.  My friend's 13 year old daughter just got one in 7-08 and shoots reduced recoil factory loads.  Great combination.  (That young lady has already taken some nice bucks with bow, muzzleloader, and rifle)

[Swampman]

After many years of hunting in thick brush with 44"+ barreled flintlocks, I find all rifles short and effective.

[Cement Man]

You are probably younger, stronger, and more agile than I am.  I think you might even be more stubborn than I am.   Just don't get snow in your muzzle. 

[Coyote Hunter]

Of course, assuming you want a smaller, lighter rifle, like a Ruger Compact or others, or just want lower recoil factory loads would NEVER be good reasons.

The Ruger Compact isn't light enough to matter (at least) logically.  The recoil is the same as the .30-06, it's a simple matter of physics.

In something like an New Ultra Light Arms rifle it might make sense to choose the .308.  It's actually light enough to be a logical choice for weight savings.
 

The Compact weighs in at 6-1/4 pounds versus 7-1/2 pounds for a standard MKII or 7 pounds for a Hawkeye.  Maybe ¾ to 1-1/4 pound isn’t much to you, but to my shoulder it is very noticeable.  Replace the walnut stock with Kevlar/graphite like the NULA uses and you will have an even lighter weight rifle for fraction of the cost of a NULA.  I’ll take the Ruger, thanks.

The next logical choice after the .30-06 is the .375H&H.  You have to jump that far to get into the next sized game catergory.

It isn’t all about different game categories – for some it is about delivering ‘X’ amount of energy at greater distances – for the same game category.  Many .325 , 8mm and .338 and .35 shooters would agree your statement is baseless.

[roper]

Of course, assuming you want a smaller, lighter rifle, like a Ruger Compact or others, or just want lower recoil factory loads would NEVER be good reasons.

The Ruger Compact isn't light enough to matter (at least) logically.  The recoil is the same as the .30-06, it's a simple matter of physics.

In something like an New Ultra Light Arms rifle it might make sense to choose the .308.  It's actually light enough to be a logical choice for weight savings.

You are right about the NULA rifle in 308 it's 4 3/4 lbs so with scope you be under 6lbs.  My wife has the Plains model 280AI  it weights with scope under 7lbs.  Good thing about the NULA in 308 is you get the longer barrel  so you get to take full advantage of the velocity also being a custom you could go to a longer barrel Mel will work with you on weight.  Well good luck

[Swampman]

Of course, assuming you want a smaller, lighter rifle, like a Ruger Compact or others, or just want lower recoil factory loads would NEVER be good reasons.

The Ruger Compact isn't light enough to matter (at least) logically.  The recoil is the same as the .30-06, it's a simple matter of physics.

In something like an New Ultra Light Arms rifle it might make sense to choose the .308.  It's actually light enough to be a logical choice for weight savings.
 

The Compact weighs in at 6-1/4 pounds versus 7-1/2 pounds for a standard MKII or 7 pounds for a Hawkeye.  Maybe ¾ to 1-1/4 pound isn’t much to you, but to my shoulder it is very noticeable.  Replace the walnut stock with Kevlar/graphite like the NULA uses and you will have an even lighter weight rifle for fraction of the cost of a NULA.  I’ll take the Ruger, thanks.

The next logical choice after the .30-06 is the .375H&H.  You have to jump that far to get into the next sized game catergory.

It isn’t all about different game categories – for some it is about delivering ‘X’ amount of energy at greater distances – for the same game category.  Many .325 , 8mm and .338 and .35 shooters would agree your statement is baseless.

You are mistaken on all counts.

[Sweet 6.5]

You are mistaken on all counts.

Chev? Ford? Dodge?

[deltecs]

Well, obviously some disagree that the difference between the .308 to 3006 to .300 Win velocity difference is substantial in one but not the other.  If one looks at my previous posts, I clearly stated COMPARABLE PRESSURES.  The SAAMI specs for the .308 Win is 52,000 cup, the 300 Win is 54,000 cup, while the lowly 30-06 is 50,000 cup.  If the 30-06 is loaded to 52,000 cup as the 308 Win is loaded, the velocity increase goes up accordingly.  If the 30-06 is loaded to 54,000 cup then any velocity difference between it and the 300 Win decreases.  If one can be loaded safely in the same model rifle and action, so can the other, so any major velocity advantage with the 300 Win decreases, while the 30-06 increases any velocity advantage between it and the .308 Win.  If a .308 Win in someones opinion is almost as good as the 30-06, then the same must be said of the 30-06 as between it and the .300 Win Mag. 

[Coyote Hunter]

You are mistaken on all counts.

Well, let’s see, since I’m “mistaken on all counts”, here’s what you are really saying ...

1. The weights for the Ruger Compact .308 (6-1/4 lb), standard MKII .308 (7-1/1/2 lb)  and 7 lb for the Hawkeye are taken right off the Ruger web site.  So Ruger is mistaken about the weights of their rifles...

2. Replacing the Ruger walnut stock with a lighter Kevlar/Graphite stock results in a HEAVIER rifle...

3. You’re also saying that a Ruger, which is commonly available for as little as $450 here in Denver, plus the cost of a Kevlar/graphite stock would total more than a fraction of the cost of a NULA rifle ,which start out at $3,000 and go up from there...

4. And finally, you’re saying a .338 RUM isn’t significantly more capable than a .30-06 when it comes to big game...

I’m thinking your brain is oxygen deprived...