7 mm Van Horn Special

[RonF]

I am looking at a used custom Contender barrel in 7 mm Van Horn Special, but I don't know anything about this caliber.  Can someone help?  Is it a blown out 7x30 Waters?

TIA

RonF

[jhalcott]

  IF you aren't an experienced handloader, a "wildcat" cartridge may NOT be for you. I do have the 7TC/U and 7-30 waters,plus other 7mm handguns. There is nothing wrong with the 7-30 as a deer cartridge. The problem with your 7mm van horn special is finding loading data. If the big guys stop making the parent case or proper powders,etc, etc. YOU are left with a tent peg! Screw up the dies and you MAY have to spend well over a hundred bucks for a new set.
  Now ,while I do not know for certain, the Van Horn  may be an old silohouette round best used with heavy bullets to knock down those 200 meter 50/60 pound Rams! They might not be a good choice for smaller deer and such. At the Van Horn site it is listed for standard rifles and Encores.  So I do not think it is a mild round based on a .223 case. More likely some thing on the 308/307case. I do not think you can do much "blowing out" of the 7-30 case. ONE thing in its favor though, Van Horn made some VERY good barrels back in the days I shot "silly wets".

[RonF]

Thanks for your comments.  I understand the ramifications of loading for wildcats and obsolete cartridges, and I load for several and form brass of various types; I just don't know the particulars of this one.  The Van Horn site you mention is apparently current as of about 2000, and things may have changed.  The barrel I am looking at is a Van Horn barrel chambered to 7 mm VH Special, so he must have thought it was safe.  Dies come with the barrel.  I've emailed Dave to try to get loading data and specifics, but he hasn't responded yet and I was curious.

Maybe someone else will be able to answer my question.

BTW, you actually can gain something from the 7x30 Waters for use in a Contender.  Since it doesn't have to survive cycling through an action, you can improve it to use a very short neck and sharp shoulder, more than the typical AI round.  I seem to recall that this is what the 7 mm VH Special is, but I'm not sure.  If it is built on a .30-06 size case head, I'll pass for use in a Contender.

RonF

[Graybeard]

Just because a fringe barrel maker like Van Horn "thinks" it's safe doesn't mean it really is. Nor does it mean it is not. I have no clue. I do think Van Horn is the one who likes to shrink necks to a mere one tenth of an inch to increase case capacity in the false hope it will make the round something it wasn't in the parent case form.

One of the things I tend to agree with Barness on is his theory on potential velocity increase based on case capacity increase. I believe his theory is 1% velocity increase for a 4% case capacity increase. At same pressure levels that seems a pretty valid hypothesis on his part backed up by a study of loading manual data.

So his wildcat if it is in fact a 7-30 Waters with a 0.10" neck rather than the standard Waters neck might get you another 100 fps or so at same pressure level what do you honestly think another 100 fps is gonna buy you? Is it worth the extra hassle to form cases, the shorter case life and questionable data with no pressure testing done? Not to me but only you can answer if it is to you.

If you feel you need it why not go with the 7JDJ #2 instead as it actually adds far more case capacity with a stronger case and pressure tested data to boot.

[RonF]

Thanks, Bill.  I agree with Barness, too.  It's just that this is one of two barrels in this package, which includes a contender, scope and some neat looking custom wood, so I wanted to know about the chambering.  As an engineer, I do understand the hard limits imposed by the physics.

RonF

[Dezynco]

RonF,
If the package is a good deal, why not!  Is the other barrel something that's more common so that you could start shooting immediately?  You could dig for reloading data for the 7mm Van Horn later.  If the barrel comes with a set of dies, then you're in business as far as I see it.  Could be a lot of fun to play with.

If you decide you don't want to fool with the 7mm Van Horn Special, you could always sell it to me!

[RonF]

The other barrel duplicates one I already have, except that it's a Texas Contenders barrel and not a Van Horn.

Still looking for an answer to my original question:  What case is this based on?

RonF

[Dezynco]

Try sending them an email and ask what the parent case is.   The company is Van Horn Custom Rifles, can be found at www.mygunroom.com.

the email address is:  dvhcustom@aol.com

Let us know what you find out, I'm curious also!

[RonF]

Excellent suggestion.  I did what you are suggesting before my first post, and that aol.com address no longer works.  I got a new one off the Midway site and have emailed him, but no response so far.

RonF

[Graybeard]

He has a whole line of rounds based off the .30-30 case blown out and neck shortened to 0.10" I assume this is one but it's been way too long since I visited his site to be sure. The entire line used to be shown there.

[RonF]

Thanks Bill.  I didn't see any information other than the complete list of things he chambers, but I'll go back and look.

RonRF

[handi243]

IF you are looking for something in a 7mm go with a waters  lots of data, brass, dies etc. Plus if you need to unload it  no problem there someone always needing a 7 30 waters.

[RonF]

Good point.  I'm not really "looking" for a 7mm; this thing just looked interesting and it might be fun to play with, so I wanted to try to find out what it really is.  If it is not based on a .30-30 case head or smaller, then I won't touch it.

RonF

[Graybeard]

I clicked the link for Van Horn and it was a chore following the various multiple links to get to his site thru that one. That is definitely NOT the site he used to have. I'm not sure if the other still exists or not.

[RonF]

Dave Van Horn answered my email to say that this round is based on the .375 Winchester, so it has a .30-30 case head.  I guess he wanted a stronger case than a blown out .30-30, but if his idea was to operate at .375 Win pressures then he would blow up Contenders left and right.  I'm guessing there would also be neck reaming issues with the neck down operation, since the .375 Win already has pretty thick case walls.  It does seem, though, that necking down and blowing out a .30-30 would work.  That could be done with normal sizing dies (which are included in the deal) in one step.  I'll think on it some before deciding whether or not to part with my money.

RonF