The 30-30 is better!
The Ithaca M37 proved effective in a couple of the smaller departments in the country, one was L.A.P.D., and the other was L.A. Sheriff’s Department. The Sheriff’s Department is larger than many small cities. Towards the end they had some rather ugly looking shotguns after seeing years on patrol. With the ups and downs of Ithaca I do not see it as a practical law enforcement shotgun.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County_Sheriff's_DepartmentThe M870 Remington was standard for the outfit I worked for. All my training at the time centered on the M870. The M870 was an easy transition for me because I used a M760 since I was fourteen. The combat training with the M870 does not easily translate to the M37 for many users. At an annual combat shoot a left-handed officer brought a M37. When placed in a mix of shotguns with officer not seeing what had gone on before was a little scary.
This was taking place on a police range.
#1. A 175 pound training dummy was placed 25-yards from four silhouette targets. Next to the dummy was placed a shotgun, in this case a M37. The shotgun had two live rounds in it and there were live rounds on the ground.
#2. The down dummy was an officer down. The officer in training was to use cover and his handgun to get to the down officer. Once at the dummy the officer was to engage the bad guy targets.
The training quickly demonstrated that mixing a non-standard weapon into the mix result in confusion, and in the field could lead to the loss of life.
Success with any weapon centers on training, and being familiar. This scenario showed that using a non-standard weapon to accommodate a left-hand officer put others at risk. A better answer was to provide the officer additional training to the officer with the agency mandated shotgun.
During WWII my father-in-law was an Army officer who took part in the fighting in New Guinea, and the Philippines. He saw the M37 being used in combat, and used by guards. A few years after the end of the War he was assigned to duty in Alaska. He bought a M37 Ithaca. After he passed away it became my shotgun and that is why I was familiar with the M37 on the range.
I love the M37 for bird hunting, and I have adapted some of my L.E. training to the M37. In a critical situation if given the choice I would pick up a Remington M870.
Felt recoil with the M37 is greater than the M870. Being I am from the dark ages my issued M870 was lighter than the later Police M870 shotguns. I have been using a 12-gauge duck gun since I was about 10-yearsold and have adjusted to it. But your standard M1A1 police recruit does not have that background. I found out that memory does have an effect when using a shotgun.
While on a two-week hunting trip I used my M37 to take limits of Mt. Quail, and grouse. At the same time I bagged a few bandtail pigeons. I fired a good part of a box of high base shells every day. At the end of the trip I was sore, and my brain was reluctant for me to bring the M37 up. When I returned home I installed a heavy duty recoil pad on the stock.
Many police recruits have problems with recoil generated by the 12-guage shotgun. Many recruits of small stature have problems, and in some cases this has resulted in the issue of “wimpy” loads for whiners. I have always marched in the other direction and carried Magnum 00 12-pellet loads and rifle slugs. These loads are not friendly in my M37 Feather weight, but life is better with the thick recoil pad.
I believe the 30-30 Winchester is a better then the shotgun in the hands of the experienced officer. The North Hollywood shootout proved the weakness of the 12-guage when loaded with buckshot against an armored subject when the range extends beyond a few yards. The failures on that day were administrative and political. I do not recall any mention of shotgun slugs being used. When the robbery went down a few well placed rounds from a 30-30 would have brought the bad guys down and there would have been no need for officers to search for rifles from a local gun store.
I recall meeting up with a Sheriff’s detective to investigate a person who fired three rounds at a passing car in a campground. The tall, thin, silver-haired detective stepped out of the Ford LTD, wearing a gray pin stripe suit. I thought this might be the wrong guy for this problem.
I quickly changed my mind, when he pulled a well kept 30-30 Winchester out of the trunk. They had sent the right officer for the job.
Marlin 30-30 April 2009
