Heavy bullets in the 223 15" barrel?

[lastchanc54]

My question is this, has anyone tried any heavy bullets in the 15 inch 223 Encore? If so, what weight bullet and type of powder? Did you get them to group?
I have only seen light weight bullet loads for the pistols. While doing some research, I got to wondering about slower heavier bullets. On Midway I found many different offerings from 63, 69. 70, 73, 75, 80, and even 90 grain bullets! Wow, I had no idea there were so many choices in the 224 bullets.
Has anyone tried any of these and if so, how did they shoot? Has anyone tried them on small game?
Your experience and time is highly valued. Please share. Many thanks.
I would have listed this thread in the reloading section but I get more responses to my reloading questions on this one 

[yooper77]

Yes lots of choices, but your Encore wont stabilize longer bullets with the 1:12" rifling twist in your barrel.

You would need a 1:7" or 1:9" rifling twist to stabilize them.

yooper77

[teddy12b]

You may want to research the powders people are using in 16" barrel ar-15's.  For a barrel of almost the same length there has been more research done for the ar-15. 

[lastchanc54]

Thanks guys. I know the heavy bullets aren't the best with the twist of the 15 inch Encore barrel but someone is always pushing the envelope. I was hoping that someone found a combo that worked on larger game than just ground hog and coyotes. Match bullets don't expand like varmint bullets and some testing is required to see how well they work in different than intended situations. I am not looking for sub MOA loads in the heavy bullets, I would need a rifle barrel for that with the appropriate twist. Just looking to see if anyone has tried the long bullets and had any success. You never know to you ask 
Many years ago I got the idea to experiment with a nasty looking 90 grain 9mm hollow poiint bullet. I put it in a 357 magnum case with a healthy charge of 296. The first shot, I held the gun around the corner of a building and fired it. That way, if it blew up, I would limit the damage to my body. Yikes. In the end I developed a super fast load with low chamber pressures. The bullet would not shoot through much without exploding but boy did it blow up things. A gallon jug of water became a huge ball of mist. Just add some food coloring so you can see it all, impressive. When I got to thinking about how much damage the load would do in a self defense situation, I got worried and stopped making them, ever. I pushed the evelope with out any guidelines and that time, it was fascinating. Years later I heard that someone else made the same discovery and published some loading data on how to do it. Who knows what others may have tried?

[WayneS]

It's the length of the bullet and not the weight that determines the twist needed. If you are looking for something to hunt with look at the Speer 70 gn.RN

[quickdtoo]

Or consider the 60gr Nosler Partition, 63gr Sierra Varminter or 64gr Win Power Point, they all can shoot well in a 1:12" twist and have a good track record on deer from the .223 with good shot placement, read the reviews at the links. 

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=738047

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=609136

[lastchanc54]

Thanks for the info guys. I sure appreciate it. Today I bought a Lyman handgun manual. The loads for the 223 ended at 55 grains. I ordered the Lyman 48th edition online and I will have it next week. I am told that if has more loads for the Encore. for now I have a bunch of 50 V Max BT to play with. I can at least punch some paper for now. I am a fan of Nosler's so I will get some next trip to the gun shop.

[yooper77]

40 - 55 grain bullets are best for the 223 Remington in either rifle or pistol length barrel with a 1:12" rifling twist.

I personally don't recommend the 223 Remington or any 22 caliber centerfire rifle cartridge for any big game hunting regardless of bullet selection.  I realise others like and use them, but its just my personal opinion.

Your dangerous practise of attempting to develop a high speed load using bullets designed for the 9mm Luger in the 357 Magnum will be unsafe for self defense.  Over penetration is something you do not want in a self defense load.  You never know where the bullet will travel after passing through the subject.  Plus the jacketed bullet diameter is .355" for the 9mm Luger and .357" diameter for the 38 Special and 357 Magnum.

It's important to follow the reloading manuals carefully in order to safely find the most accurate load.

yooper77

[lastchanc54]

Yooper77, thanks and your right of course. I do not advocate this type of experimentation. If you read my post carefully, I think I mentioned that the load did not penetrate or over penetrate. The whole concept was to create one of the first frangible loads (early 80's). When this load was shot into any form of medias, such as a 2 litter plastic bottle full of water, all that came out the back was tiny shards of copper. Almost nothing of the round could be located. I put a sheet of cardboard 3 feet behind the targets and nothing came through. The point was to eliminate collaterial damage. I just felt they worked too well. After some testing, everyone agreed that it would be almost impossible to survive a body hit and so I destroyed the remaing few I made and the loading data as well. A few years later, Speer came out with their Lawman series ammo for the 357 magnum and it used a lightweight aggressive hollow point bullet traveling at high speeds. It seems they had the same goal, to limit overtravel or over penetration of the round. Now days you can buy rounds over the counter for almost any common handgun caliber that do the same thing. some are filled with shot and others have different technology to accomplish the same goals. I don't know if I was ahead of my time or just young and dumb    For anyone else reading this, at the time of the experiment, I had already loaded thousands of rounds in many calibers. It is still not a good idea to go outside the manual. Be safe and have fun out there.  Sorry if I got off topic somehow.

[yooper77]

Yes I did read your post carefully.  Nope not a new design.

The standard 9mm Luger bullets are not necessarily frangible, but when pushed beyond there limits anything came happen.

You made a 9mm Luger bullet to appear as it was frangible, because you pushed it beyond its limits.

I am glad you agree its inherently dangerous to experiment with load data and putting your gun and self in jeopardy.

I have seen the lead slug of a jacketed bullet come out of the barrel, but the jacket remained lodged in the barrel when someone experimented and pushed the bullet beyond its limits.

Bullets should be used for there intended purpose and to misuse them can develop unsafe circumstances.

yooper77

[jhalcott]

  I know for a fact that 55 grain bullets from several makers (ALSO cast bullets) will kill white tails in Md.
  IF you can penetrate the heart/lungs they WILL die. This doesn't mean blasting them from ultra long range.!! Certainly under 100 yards and MAYBE out to 150 yards. I've used Nosler ,Hornady Speer and sierra's. Also a cast bullet or 2. Ranges have NEVER exceeded 125 yards. The deer HAVE run some times and dropped at the shot other times. NONE escaped! Even the one that went acrossed the road 100 yards away. IF YOU hit them in the guts with a 458Win mag ,they will run! Hit them THRU the heart with a.22 rf long rifle (you gotta be close) and they will die!