Islam?

[Skunk]

And it didn't amuse me in the least.

I see that Kev. 

[Singleshotsam]

"He's not talking about a fist fight, he's talking about taking you out to the wood shed, putting you over his knee, and giving you an old-fashioned spanking. "

I'd be careful Kev-man... sounds like slim-rem7 is a little too excited about taking you into the woods

I'll be the first to admit I'm not an expert on anything... Nor is anyone else on this forum for that matter... What lot of people tend to forget is that age does not equal wisdom.  A man should never stop learning in his lifetime. 

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
-John Wayne

[billy_56081]

What happened 1000 yrs ago has nothing to do with u and me TODAY.Like i said in a sarcastic way. It,s our fault. If you really feel this way you have no buisness in america. Move to the middleast and embrace the slighted you feel so enamered with


                                                          Troy

Can a post be more wrong than this? 

What happened 1000 years ago shaped our world every bit as much as what happened 100 years ago, 10 years ago, and yesterday.  The past has shaped our interactions with the mid-east and Muslims from day one. 

The beginning of heavy involvement in the mid-east (and Iran in particular) was during WWII, when we used Iran as a supply line to the USSR, after the British and Soviets invaded the country.  We also strong-armed them out of a lot of oil. We did it to defeat Hitler, which was a noble cause, but that didn't make any bacon with Arabs that never laid eyes on a German.

After WWII, the whole Israel thing drove a pretty deep wedge between Muslims and the West.  I don't see any need to rehash it here.

In 1953, the CIA and the British SIS brought down the duly elected government of Iran, and put the Shah of Iran back on the throne as absolute despot.  The Shah, of course, was a brutal leader who's people lived in squalor while he enjoyed opulent palaces.  He was funded by the US.  We did this to keep the Soviets out of the mid-east.  It was a worthy goal, and it worked, but it didn't make us any friends in Iran.

There was also that whole thing with Saddam Hussein.  You remember him, right?    We used him to fight communism (and later, Muslim extremism) in the mid-east.  He was a good lapdog for a long time and did a lot to help the US, but he was also a murdering psychopath. 

Let's also remember that we trained an entire generation of Muslims to be insurgents, so that we could defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan.  That operation was a resounding success.  It also taught a bunch of guys like Osama bin Laden that they could fight a superpower and win.

I could go on for another hour, pointing out instances where we (the US) and other western nations, though we meant well, used force directly or indirectly (by proxy) to advance our cause at the expense of other people.  That might not mean much to a lot of the folks here on Graybeard Outdoors, but to the people who had their leaders picked for them by the CIA, it means everything.

Our own actions, while well-intentioned, caused a backlash among Muslims.  9-11 was only the most horrific embodiment of that backlash.  It was a heinous act, but it was not brought about, as some here believe, purely by blind Muslim hatred of American democracy and way of life.

to bad we cant just go to the woods an settle it.. shut the professional sewers of confusion up ..
for a little while anyway..

Infantile threats of violence from a neocon Bushbot?  Wish I could say I was surprised.  Anyway, you sure got me scared. 

So what would you, or our resident crying genious TM7 have do or do to make all of this better? Of course neither of you will answer aas all you guys acn do is cry and whine about t hings and have never solved anything. I Myself have fought and killed for my country, and will again if givin the chance. The ignorant flower children that think violence never solves anything are complete morans, as a dead man is no threat to anyone anymore. Go on hating AMerica, guy like me have givin you the right.

[kevthebassman]

So what would you, or our resident crying genious TM7 have do or do to make all of this better? Of course neither of you will answer aas all you guys acn do is cry and whine about t hings and have never solved anything. I Myself have fought and killed for my country, and will again if givin the chance. The ignorant flower children that think violence never solves anything are complete morans, as a dead man is no threat to anyone anymore. Go on hating AMerica, guy like me have givin you the right.

Billy, when accusing people of being less intelligent than you, it is always best to do so using correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation.  That's neither here nor there though.

To answer your questions:

I myself have done my best to help candidates who promote a more sane and sustainable foreign policy.  I don't just stump for them on the internet, I send them money and talk about them whenever possible in my day-to-day life.  I've "converted" my parents and a few other people into third party voters.  It's not much, but better than nothing.

Now, to your belief that a dead man is no threat; that is true.  However, everyone has relatives.  There are a billion people who identify themselves as Muslims, and despite what you would like to do, we cannot kill them all.  We've already seen that it's not practical to keep fighting them; yes we've pretty well won in Iraq, but we've done so by going deeper into debt than any nation in history.  Obviously we cannot keep doing that.

So we've got to find some way to share this planet with them.  Step one, quit importing oil.  If we can find some other source of energy, we will have the battle won.  No longer will we be forced to send hundreds of billions of dollars every year to people who don't particularly like us.  We won't have to worry about who controls the oil fields, and we won't need to bother with that hellish corner of the globe.  They can go back to being goat herders for all I care.

Oh, quit accusing me of hating America.  You and I both know that it's a tired routine, and you aren't persuading anyone.

[billy_56081]

Deleted by Graybeard as inappropriate.

What is a "sane" foreign policy? Please elighten me? Stop importing oil? Well lets go by your super genious policy and stop importing oil tomorrow. Boy I bet America would be a wonderful place then huh? Also anyone who think the Muslims can share the planet with non Muslims is living in imagination land. Islam is not a religion, it is a cancerous cult which will toloate nothing that is not part of Islam. One thing about muslims is that they are patient. They are willing to blend in and act as if they are "moderate" until they have the oportunity to strike. If you look into the case of the hijackers from 9/11 everyone that knkew them thought of them as pretty Americanised fellers. They are very good at fooling you little wanna be progressives and see everyone as equal fellers, but you guys are part of there plan. They are using silly little ignorant folks.

[kevthebassman]

Deleted by Graybeard as inappropriate.quote]Just when I think you cannot possibly sink lower, you do just that.  Congratulations.

What is a "sane" foreign policy? Please elighten me? Stop importing oil? Well lets go by your super genious policy and stop importing oil tomorrow. Boy I bet America would be a wonderful place then huh?

If you would read before you release your uncontrollable verbal diarrhea, you would have noted where I mentioned we need to find an an alternative source of energy.  Nobody is advocating that we simply stop using oil without first finding a suitable substitute.  Please at least attempt to comprehend what you read before you attempt to rebut.

 

Also anyone who think the Muslims can share the planet with non Muslims is living in imagination land. Islam is not a religion, it is a cancerous cult which will toloate nothing that is not part of Islam.

Patently false, as history has shown.  Read up on a fellow known as Saladin.  He was a strict Sunni Muslim.  He also taught the so-called Christian crusaders a thing or two about chivalry.

Saladin and Richard the Lionheart, in the Treaty of Ramla, agreed that Jerusalem would remain in Muslim hands, but allowed for Christian pilgrims to visit the city freely.

Even in the face of the third crusade, Muslims were found to be honorable and agreeable.

One thing about muslims is that they are patient. They are willing to blend in and act as if they are "moderate" until they have the oportunity to strike. If you look into the case of the hijackers from 9/11 everyone that knkew them thought of them as pretty Americanised fellers. They are very good at fooling you little wanna be progressives and see everyone as equal fellers, but you guys are part of there plan. They are using silly little ignorant folks.

So what's your solution billy?  Kill everyone with brown skin? 

Billy, I ask you, was Islamic terrorism a problem before we started importing oil from the mid-east?

The answer of course, is no.  The west had no reason to meddle in Muslim affairs, and the Muslims had no reason to bother with the west.  Only AFTER we started importing their oil and selecting their leaders for them did we begin to have problems.

[Troyboy]

I believe that we need to stop importing oil as well. Drill and use our own while exploring alternate energy sources. 1000% Great but the muslim is not gonna stop his insane jihad against the west especially now that we overthrew so damn insane.Jew and philistene have been fighting since the beginning of time, now we are allied with the jew. Islam=Hate Christianity=forgiveness as i recall JC died for each and every one of us including insane jihadists. Problem is i'm not gonna turn the other cheek. No need to list islams violent accomplishments in the last 30 years. It is what it is and we all need to agree to disagree.GOD BLESS AMERICA. Thank you Billy 56081 MY FAMILY IS IN YOUR DEPT. My brother just spent a year in country 3rd ID has a real problem with islam as well


                                                                    Troy

[DalesCarpentry]

What is a "sane" foreign policy? Please elighten me? Stop importing oil? Well lets go by your super genious policy and stop importing oil tomorrow. Boy I bet America would be a wonderful place then huh?

If you would read before you release your uncontrollable verbal diarrhea, you would have noted where I mentioned we need to find an an alternative source of energy.  Nobody is advocating that we simply stop using oil without first finding a suitable substitute.  Please at least attempt to comprehend what you read before you attempt to rebut.

 

Also anyone who think the Muslims can share the planet with non Muslims is living in imagination land. Islam is not a religion, it is a cancerous cult which will toloate nothing that is not part of Islam.

Patently false, as history has shown.  Read up on a fellow known as Saladin.  He was a strict Sunni Muslim.  He also taught the so-called Christian crusaders a thing or two about chivalry.

Saladin and Richard the Lionheart, in the Treaty of Ramla, agreed that Jerusalem would remain in Muslim hands, but allowed for Christian pilgrims to visit the city freely.

Even in the face of the third crusade, Muslims were found to be honorable and agreeable.

One thing about muslims is that they are patient. They are willing to blend in and act as if they are "moderate" until they have the oportunity to strike. If you look into the case of the hijackers from 9/11 everyone that knkew them thought of them as pretty Americanised fellers. They are very good at fooling you little wanna be progressives and see everyone as equal fellers, but you guys are part of there plan. They are using silly little ignorant folks.

So what's your solution billy?  Kill everyone with brown skin? 

Billy, I ask you, was Islamic terrorism a problem before we started importing oil from the mid-east?

The answer of course, is no.  The west had no reason to meddle in Muslim affairs, and the Muslims had no reason to bother with the west.  Only AFTER we started importing their oil and selecting their leaders for them did we begin to have problems.

If I did not know better I would have thought I just read a post from TM7. The Muslims are dangerous people that would like nothing more than to kill your family along with my family. I also think it is wrong that you get on Billy's spelling and gramer. I don't think there is one of out there that types something in a hurry because you are upset and does not check it out before hitting post. Dale

[powderman]

YES, we had trouble with islam before we even knew what oil was. Islam is a fast growing cancer, not a religion, and should be treated as such. There were even big sea battles,Christians against the Godless ones several hundred years ago. The only time the Godless ones want peace is when they are out gunned, or in the minority. They don't want peace, never have, never will. They are dedicated to the anhilation of every man, woman, and child that will not bow down to and obey their child molester false prophet mohamed. Mohamed was a false prophet, and islam is a false religion. POWDERMAN. 

[Troyboy]

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




                                                Troy

[kevthebassman]

If I did not know better I would have thought I just read a post from TM7. The Muslims are dangerous people that would like nothing more than to kill your family along with my family. I also think it is wrong that you get on Billy's spelling and gramer. I don't think there is one of out there that types something in a hurry because you are upset and does not check it out before hitting post. Dale

1.  You are generalizing wildly about Muslims.  According to the Census Bureau, there are currently over 2 million living here in the US.  A dozen participated in the 9-11 attacks. 

2. I could really care less about Billy's grammar, but if he's going to accuse people of being morons, he really ought to at least make use of the spell check button before doing so.



 

YES, we had trouble with islam before we even knew what oil was. Islam is a fast growing cancer, not a religion, and should be treated as such. There were even big sea battles,Christians against the Godless ones several hundred years ago.

Are you actually equating the pirates of Tripoli with the whole Islamic world?  Apart from that, I cannot possibly imagine what events you are referencing as proof of your absurd claims.

[powderman]

I don't give a rats crap about any agreement with the Godless ones. Jeruselum is a Holy city, muslims have no business there, that city is for Gods people, not satans. There can be no agreement with muslims, they've broken every single treaty they've made. The only time they want to talk is when their butts are in a sling. Their words are worthless. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

Silly wanna love everyone in the world person. The reason Islamic terrorism has been spreading much faster is because of the increase in the speed of travel in that past few centuries. DUH! DUH! DUH!

150 years ago most people never left much more that a radius of 20 miles of where they were born.

[45-70.gov]

i  bet  with  a months  pay  you  could  fly  around  the  world  in  a week

things  have   changed

[kevthebassman]

i  bet  with  a months  pay  you  could  fly  around  the  world  in  a week

things  have   changed

Heh, not my month's pay. 

[DalesCarpentry]

And yet you QUOTED him thereby posting it again YOURSELF. That's a MAJOR NO NO around here. NEVER EVER quote a comment you know is improper. He has been given his ONE and ONLY warning. Graybeard.

I have been warned a couple times of such language on these forums. I wonder how long it will take a moderator to pick it up? The way it was explained to me was putting in this crap *&%$##@!^&()*)_ is just the same as saying the real word. Especially when you put in the first letter and the last letter so every 6TH grader knows what you are saying. Dale

[DalesCarpentry]

And yet you QUOTED him thereby posting it again YOURSELF. That's a MAJOR NO NO around here. NEVER EVER quote a comment you know is improper. He has been given his ONE and ONLY warning. Graybeard.

I have been warned a couple times of such language on these forums. I wonder how long it will take a moderator to pick it up? The way it was explained to me was putting in this crap *&%$##@!^&()*)_ is just the same as saying the real word. Especially when you put in the first letter and the last letter so every 6TH grader knows what you are saying. Dale

Sorry GB. That was stupid of me. Dale

[Troyboy]

This is just a discussion. We are all free thinkers like i said. There is no reason to degade one because he does not agree with another. Everybody is entitled to there opionion after the facts have been given.

                                                    Troy

[Heather]

It is nice to see that the media hasn't brainwashed us against Muslims just to futher out gov'ts agenda! 

Heather

[billy_56081]

It is nice to see that the media hasn't brainwashed us against Muslims just to futher out gov'ts agenda! 

Heather

Hmmm, I guess when I was stationed in Hafir al Batan, Saudi Arabia the media must have been brain washing me HUH? And by the way Heather as I had seen first hand there, being you are speaking here to un related males, the religious police would have beaten you for it. What I PERSONALLY saw in Saudi Arabia is what has formed my opinon and hatred of this disease people call Islam. It's got nothing to do with furthering our Govt's agenda but has to do with what I saw first hand as the greatest threat to the free world. ISLAM! Go ahead and promote this love everything as equla garbage, I'll tell ya what it will effect you more than it will me.



http://mysite.verizon.net/rogmios/id30.html

I saw something similar to this. You know what the womans crime was?  Her family didn't believe she resisted hard enough when she was forcibly raped. I saw that first hand, do not insult me by telling me the "media" has brain washed me.

[kevthebassman]

Silly wanna love everyone in the world person.

I think you misunderstand me billy.  I don't want to love everyone in the world.  I want to leave them alone.

The reason Islamic terrorism has been spreading much faster is because of the increase in the speed of travel in that past few centuries. DUH! DUH! DUH!

150 years ago most people never left much more that a radius of 20 miles of where they were born.

150 years ago, the CIA wasn't installing murderous dictators to run these countries. 150 years ago we didn't have a problem with Islamic terrorism.  Coincidence?

[Heather]

It is nice to see that the media hasn't brainwashed us against Muslims just to futher out gov'ts agenda! 

Heather

Hmmm, I guess when I was stationed in Hafir al Batan, Saudi Arabia the media must have been brain washing me HUH? And by the way Heather as I had seen first hand there, being you are speaking here to un related males, the religious police would have beaten you for it. What I PERSONALLY saw in Saudi Arabia is what has formed my opinon and hatred of this disease people call Islam. It's got nothing to do with furthering our Govt's agenda but has to do with what I saw first hand as the greatest threat to the free world. ISLAM! Go ahead and promote this love everything as equla garbage, I'll tell ya what it will effect you more than it will me.



http://mysite.verizon.net/rogmios/id30.html

I saw something similar to this. You know what the womans crime was?  Her family didn't believe she resisted hard enough when she was forcibly raped. I saw that first hand, do not insult me by telling me the "media" has brain washed me.

Billy your case is an exception.  You have legitimate reasons for your hatred of an entire race because of the acts of the ones you witnessed.  I personally don't agree with the Islamic faith, but I personally feel that what they do is none of my business. 

Heather

[billy_56081]

Well now you NWO/one world Govt. folks ought to know that Islam, whether we  leave them alone or we are in their faces has a plan. A one world Caliphate. And if the "evil American CIA" is behind all this terrorism and repression by the Muslims, dod they build a time machine so they could get the Moors to go into Spain in the 8th century? HMMMM! I guess it is as plausable as some of the other silly conspiracy theories I see around the net.



And before the know it all whiners jump in with, "America is an ally with the Govt. of Saudi Arabia" wahh wahh. You would also be the first to jump in and whine about it if we took the cretins out of power.

[kevthebassman]

Well now you NWO/one world Govt. folks ought to know that Islam, whether we  leave them alone or we are in their faces has a plan. A one world Caliphate. And if the "evil American CIA" is behind all this terrorism and repression by the Muslims, dod they build a time machine so they could get the Moors to go into Spain in the 8th century? HMMMM! I guess it is as plausable as some of the other silly conspiracy theories I see around the net.



And before the know it all whiners jump in with, "America is an ally with the Govt. of Saudi Arabia" wahh wahh. You would also be the first to jump in and whine about it if we took the cretins out of power.

Your ability to selectively ignore parts of a post is truly amazing.  Nowhere did I say that the CIA was evil.  The CIA did what they did to keep the Soviets out of the mid-east.  An unfortunate side-effect of that is that our actions were seen as imperialist, and inspired two generations of extremists with nothing to loose. 

As for the Saudis, I would be content if we simply stopped sending them hundreds of billions of dollars in foreign aid.  I'm fairly certain that they could get along just fine with just their oil money..... no need for them to suckle the teat of the American taxpayer like most everyone else on earth.

[crustaceous]

I'm not sure we give the Saudis that much in aid. Maybe some related to terrorism. We do sell them billions worth of weapons.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB93113.pdf
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22191479.htm

[billy_56081]

I guess the silly in this wrld will just bury there heads in the sand and act as if the Muslims will just leave us alone if we leave them alone. Boy guys what color is the sky in your world? It is a nice little fantacy, but it is only that a fantacy. Islam is a Cancer plain and simple if you do not believe that you are wrong. No matter if we were involved in the Middle east or not, this Cancer would spread.


What really kills me is that the muslims apologists are one of the greatest allies that the terrorists have. We have a few right here on GBO.

[kevthebassman]

I guess the silly in this wrld will just bury there heads in the sand and act as if the Muslims will just leave us alone if we leave them alone. Boy guys what color is the sky in your world? It is a nice little fantacy, but it is only that a fantacy. Islam is a Cancer plain and simple if you do not believe that you are wrong. No matter if we were involved in the Middle east or not, this Cancer would spread.


What really kills me is that the muslims apologists are one of the greatest allies that the terrorists have. We have a few right here on GBO.

Billy, the way you present your opinion as fact mirrors the tactics of the radical Muslims.  There's no debating someone who refuses to present facts and back them up with evidence.  Luckily for this world, you and those like you are a dying breed.

[TribReady]

I don't really want to step into the middle of this, or stop it cause it's fun to watch     but although Billy does come off as harsh and a little gung-ho, his points are valid.
What we call a "good" Muslim would be considered a "bad" Muslim in their book.  Those apologists here in the US, especially a few doctors in the next town by me,  say they're nothing like the Muslim terrorists.  However, by not condemning it, they are approving it.  And deep down, I feel (my opinion) they are happy for it.  It furthers their cause/religion.  They support it by their inaction and $$ that is channelled back to the terrorists by "charity" groups.
The typical reaction to the violence by most Muslims here in the US is indifference, which to me is approval. The reaction to the violence by most Muslims in the world is all out support and praise.  That reaction is evident in most ME countries.
In either case, Muslims at their core are supportive of whatever means to further the advancement of their "cancer".  Some just go the full 100% and kill, the others lay back but fully support at different levels.

This is all my opinion and I probably won't jump in to this fray anymore......but then again, maybe      

[DalesCarpentry]

I don't really want to step into the middle of this, or stop it cause it's fun to watch     but although Billy does come off as harsh and a little gung-ho, his points are valid.
What we call a "good" Muslim would be considered a "bad" Muslim in their book.  Those apologists here in the US, especially a few doctors in the next town by me,  say they're nothing like the Muslim terrorists.  However, by not condemning it, they are approving it.  And deep down, I feel (my opinion) they are happy for it.  It furthers their cause/religion.  They support it by their inaction and $$ that is channelled back to the terrorists by "charity" groups.
The typical reaction to the violence by most Muslims here in the US is indifference, which to me is approval. The reaction to the violence by most Muslims in the world is all out support and praise.  That reaction is evident in most ME countries.
In either case, Muslims at their core are supportive of whatever means to further the advancement of their "cancer".  Some just go the full 100% and kill, the others lay back but fully support at different levels.

This is all my opinion and I probably won't jump in to this fray anymore......but then again, maybe      

I think you did a real good job of explaining the way I see it also. Dale

[kevthebassman]

Your experience with Muslims has been different from mine.  The ones I've met have all been EXTREMELY happy to be OUT of the mid-east and AWAY from the radicals.  Their women still wear their head scarfs, and they pray to Mecca, but apart from that they're red-blooded Americans and wave the flag with just as much enthusiasm as anyone I've ever met.

Of course I'm sure Billy was listening in on their super-secret meeting where they were cutting the heads off of bald eagles and will soon be along to ask me why I hate America.