Author Topic: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 1287 times)

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Offline DalesCarpentry

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Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« on: October 22, 2008, 05:51:47 PM »
Looks like the auto industry might need the next bail out. There is a lot of out standing debt there for sure. Dale


(Oct. 21) - They may be folks you love to hate, but it's hard not to have sympathy for car dealers these days. These business owners are manning the bucket brigades in an auto industry meltdown.
 "Things are going disastrously," says Ray Ciccolo, owner and CEO of Village Automotive Group in suburban Boston. "Most car dealers were down over 30 percent last month, and that is a catastrophe."
Many won't survive. Almost 600 of the about 20,000 U.S. new car dealers have shut their doors this year, and an additional 2,000 will close within 18 months, predicts Mark Johnson, president of a Seattle consulting firm that helps auto dealers buy, sell or merge operations.
In September alone, 61 dealers - two a day - closed shop or downsized to used car lots, says the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA). Wounded by gas prices that killed sales of their most profitable SUVs and trucks, dealers are being hammered as the economy depresses sales of all models.
Even people with good jobs feel poorer and less confident to take on years of payments for a big purchase. Those who still would are finding it harder to get credit - General Motors credit arm GMAC now requires a credit score of 700 or better for a car loan.
Banks' reluctance to lend also is squeezing the dealers, who need regular loans (called "floor planning") to finance inventory.
"This is a very big, complex issue that's all wound up around itself," Johnson says. "We are definitely up to our neck in this."
Not helping: September sales showed that despite easing gas prices, many buyers still want gas-stingy and cheaper small cars - which have small profit margins - or demand huge discounts on trucks, SUVs or luxury cars.
That's if they're shopping at all. A poll done by WPP Lightspeed this month found that only 10 percent of Americans plan to buy a car in the next three months.
It may be hard not to gloat when a car dealer gets the short end of the deal, but when they go out of business, that can be bad news for consumers. Fewer dealers fighting for your business means you'll end up paying more for cars.
The plight of car dealers is being watched closely by economic analysts because vehicle sales are a key indicator of the economy's health. The auto industry overall supports one in 10 U.S. jobs, according to the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. Dealers alone employ more than 1.1 million and generate nearly 20 percent of retail sales in most states.
Fewer sales by dealers lead to cuts in auto production. Fewer hours or jobs for assembly-line workers. Fewer parts required from supplier companies. Fewer hot dogs sold to shift workers in plants across the nation.
Not to mention more defaults on mortgages - which got the ball rolling on this economic mess in the first place.
Working harder to close a deal
On a recent Saturday in Los Angeles, the day started slowly at Galpin Ford. At about 11 a.m., salesmen in starched shirts and ties chatted in the near-empty showroom. Terry Miller, the sales manager, says business began drooping last year. "When the mortgage issues began and gas prices rising began at a similar time -- we realized (there was) a slowdown."
Customers trickle in, looking at the new Ford Flex crossovers and largely ignoring closeout 2008 pickups. By 1 p.m., most of the staff are trying to work deals.
It's a challenge. Many buyers with SUVs to trade in owe more than they're worth, says Tawny Arnaud, Galpin's vice president of sales. They have loans of up to 72 months, even though they've gotten used to trading in every 36 months, rolling debt from one car into another. Some owe up to $15,000.
"We do everything we can to structure (the deal) so it won't happen again," Arnaud says.
Arnaud says Galpin's promotions focus on convincing buyers that they can get credit. Business is slower but hasn't died, he says. "The dealers just have to work that much harder to get their customers into a car."
For starters, customers need to pony up a bigger down payment. RDQ Economics, using Federal Reserve data, says the typical loan in August was for 88 percent of a car's price vs. 95 percent in July, and a steep drop from 101 percent in 2006 - when buyers could wrap taxes, fees and even some of their old car loan into the new loan.
"We've not had trouble getting customers financed, but terms have been restrictive, down payment requirements higher," says dealer John McEleney of Clinton, Iowa, new chairman of NADA.
Even creditworthy buyers are being hit with higher interest rates, "And in some cases, that makes the payment go up enough that the customer just can't do it," he says.
Lenders are unlikely to let buyers borrow more than the car is worth again, says Melinda Zabritski, director of automotive credit for Experian.
Close to $25 billion in auto loans are at risk of default, she says, about 3 percent of nearly $796 billion in open loans. The quality of credit on open loans also is deteriorating. People who had good scores when they got a loan have seen those scores drop because of personal financial troubles.
"It's an alarming trend," Zabritski says, adding that new buyers with spotty credit are paying higher rates because of this.
Jim Weisbecker, general manager for Belle Glade Chevrolet in West Palm Beach, Fla., says he's seeing the effects firsthand.
Customers who could have gotten a loan at 5.5 percent just a few months ago now are being offered loans at 8 percent to 10 percent. Buyers with typical credit scores of 625 to 725 - scores generally range from 300 (poor) to 850 (excellent) - got loans easily just six weeks ago, he says. Now, "It's shifted radically."
"The answer is, a whole lot less people are financing," Weisbecker says, noting that before the credit crisis, about 80 percent of his customers took out loans, and those buyers aren't coming in now.
Like consumers, many businesses are just not in the mood to buy cars in the current economy.
Jim Svetz, owner of the Muddy Cup Coffee Houses in upstate New York, is looking at ways to make the two cars in his fleet, both with more than 100,000 miles, last as long as they can.
"It would be nice to get new cars, but we're doing the best we can to keep these two going before we even think about affording a new car," he says. "As people slow down their spending, we're looking at hunkering down and hopefully getting through the recession."
Business buyers also may be reluctant to tap available credit.
Paul Lauttamus, who owns a security and communications company in West Virginia, delayed plans to buy new SUVs so he'll be able to borrow to buy troubled companies and grow.
"We didn't want to tie up future access to credit," he says.
Other businesses are having trouble getting good interest rates, or getting approved for credit at all.
That includes dealers.
Some banks are calling dealers and telling them they'll no longer finance their "floor plans," the loans that cover the cost of their unsold cars. That leaves dealers scrambling for alternative lenders or going out of business.
Johnson says he's consulting with "hundreds" of dealers whose banks called to say their loans soon will go away.
"There's this mass assault on dealers, mostly the domestic dealers," whose sales have been hit hardest this year, he says.
Fewer dealerships likely
As sales decline, fewer dealers can remain profitable.
A recent study by consulting firm Grant Thornton showed that for average dealer sales to match last year's average, about 2,000 dealers need to close. With sales imploding, the firm has raised the number to 3,800.
Unfortunately for troubled dealers, that means makers of the cars they sell aren't motivated to prop them up - particularly Detroit's Big Three, which have many more dealerships than foreign makers do.
Paul Melville, a partner at Grant Thornton, says they "badly need retail consolidation" to have healthy dealers. "Significant consolidation is necessary, especially among Ford, General Motors and Chrysler retailers," he says, "because U.S. sales already have declined more than 1 million units this year."
The domestic automakers want their dealer numbers to be more like those of Toyota or Honda. Toyota has fewer than 2,000 U.S. dealers; Ford, for example, has almost 4,000. Result: A typical Toyota dealer sold 1,628 vehicles in 2007, says Grant Thornton, while Ford stores averaged 236. GM dealers averaged 202. The average for all new car dealers was 322.
"All the domestic manufacturers want their store counts and revenue counts to look like Toyota and Honda, because many less dealerships means selling more per outlet," Johnson says.
Dealer-oriented state franchise laws make forced thinning of the ranks by automakers very expensive. But now the financial crisis is doing it for them, Johnson says. It "has really hastened this way beyond their imagination."
The consumer may not be a winner, however, as less competition allows a rethinking of the common dealer business model: high volume built with aggressive pricing and touted in TV, radio and print ads aimed to draw customers from miles around to a lot with acres of new cars.
That model has led to the big sticker-price discounts shoppers have come to expect but leaves dealers little margin for error.
Just how little was apparent last month when Bill Heard Enterprises, a chain with 13 Chevrolet dealerships from Georgia to Arizona and a 90-year history, abruptly shut its doors.
The self-described Mr. Big Volume had been weakened by problems including a dispute with consumer regulators but accounted for 7 percent of Chevy sales in the USA and had about $2.5 billion annual revenue when auto sales were booming.
"The business model of huge, irrational inventories and huge, irrational marketing budgets with razor-thin margins, a la the Bill Heard model, is obsolete," says Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, the USA's largest chain of dealerships. "It's dead. It will not survive this downturn."
Jackson says the future of car sales - coming soon - will be one in which fewer dealerships have less need to wheel and deal. They can hold the line on price, pumping up the profit per car, and focus on customer service.
"At the dealer level, a shakeout needed to happen," he says. "It will be painful. It will be ugly. But it is also long overdue."
Rebound? Maybe 2010
The pain looks likely to last through next year. The current economy makes a sales rebound look unlikely before 2010, analysts say. "All the problems of the economy are wrapped up in auto sales," says Mark Zandi, an economist at Moody's Economy.com.
Meanwhile, the remaining shoppers are taking their time making a decision and hunting for the best deal.
Eric Marks, CEO of a management consulting firm in Newburyport, Mass., wants an all-wheel-drive vehicle because he's having trouble maneuvering out of his driveway in snowy weather. But he faces the twin problems of higher interest rates for a car loan and lower trade-in values, which drive up the end price for a new car.
He's also seen the dealer meltdown. The dealer who sold his wife a Chevy Tahoe a few months ago has gone out of business.
"It was an 'aha' experience" about how bad things are getting, he says.
Even though he wants a new car, he says, he's determined to get a good deal. So for now, like many potential car buyers, he says he'll wait on the sidelines.


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Offline Heather

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2008, 04:15:58 AM »
This is like a house of cards.  You can take a piece here and there and the rest stay, but make one wrong move and they all come crashing down.   In my little analogy, our country is the house of cards, and the trillion dollar bail out was our last wrong move.  Step back...here it comes....now every card has to fall before we can start to rebuild!

Heather
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2008, 04:50:02 AM »
+1 to Heather
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2008, 05:39:47 AM »
I did my part I bought a new full size SUV with 381 HP already this year. I then turned around and got a full size V8 picking up truck as well. Dunno what more I can do to help.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Heather

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2008, 05:48:02 AM »
I did my part I bought a new full size SUV with 381 HP already this year. I then turned around and got a full size V8 picking up truck as well. Dunno what more I can do to help.

Well...you could go buy a 4 door fuel efficient family car big enough to hold 3 carseats... ;D


Heather
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A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2008, 05:51:13 AM »
Iffen I did that I'd never get it back from you guys. I thought I wasn't ever gonna get my pick up back last time Matt borrowed it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Heather

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2008, 06:19:29 AM »
Iffen I did that I'd never get it back from you guys. I thought I wasn't ever gonna get my pick up back last time Matt borrowed it.

That was the plan!  ;D

Heather
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
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Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline jjas

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2008, 06:21:11 AM »
Quote
I did my part I bought a new full size SUV with 381 HP already this year. I then turned around and got a full size V8 picking up truck as well. Dunno what more I can do to help.

Man, you sure must love buying gas!  The oil companies thank you!  Heather is right about a house of cards.  It started years ago for various reasons but easy credit stepped in to prop up low paying service jobs that are becoming more and more prevalent in the economy. 

The most telling statistic is this.  The median family income in this country is around 50k, the median price of a home is around 250K.  Do the math.  You can't buy the median house on the median income without a whole lot of creative borrowing.  Now that the credit markets are tightening, the amount of bankruptcy filings are gonna go through the roof.


Offline Troyboy

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2008, 01:37:26 PM »
Trikle down economics



                                              Troy
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Offline CannonKrazy

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2008, 03:47:23 PM »
Yep been thinking real hard about getting me another truck. I got an 04 4x4 Silverado with 2 more payments to be made and it will be paid off. With the way things are going I don't know if it's a good idea to buy anything at all except necessities. If things keep going down hill at this rate there will be plenty of new vehicles lining the street and people trying to just about give them away just to get out from under the debt.

Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2008, 04:56:31 PM »
 I purchased a new 3/4 ton pickup 3 weeks ago... there sure are good deals on new 2008 trucks out there!

I darn near bought a Toyota as I sure have a hard time supporting the Detroit way of thinking

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2008, 05:14:42 PM »
What credit crisis? I got letters from 2 credit cards today raising my limits
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline myronman3

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2008, 09:03:25 AM »
What credit crisis? I got letters from 2 credit cards today raising my limits
i get their applications and checks in the mail all the time, i used to hate it.  now, i love it.  i throw them into the stove and turn them into b.t.u.'s ;D

Offline CannonKrazy

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2008, 03:29:43 PM »
Not so fast. If things keep going as they are you might want to keep some of those applications to use for toilet paper. That might be a little more friendly to the bottom than our soon to be elected leaders.

Offline magooch

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2008, 03:30:02 AM »
Let's just hope we won't be reduced to wiping our rear ends with our currency.
Swingem

Offline rex6666

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2008, 09:18:28 AM »
All the new dealers in this area are addvertising they have plenty of financing on new cars and trucks.
I know the finance Co. i use for over the road trailers have not backed off, but you must have good credit or lots
of experince.
I am hearing about $10-11,000.00 off new ford trucks. very tempting.
Rex
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2008, 04:20:58 AM »
we  have  3  4X4  in  my  family  all  1300cc  motors

we  pay  cash  or  wait  any way

we  buy   junk  and  repaire  as  money  comes  in

just  got  hard  top  suzuki samuri  for  $200    doesn't   run

will  restore  next  year  to identical  of  the  soft top

BUT  WILL  PAY AS  I  GO      ONLY

i  do  not  borrow money  unless  i can  invest at  a higher  rate
so  i  can  make  money  with  others  money....SIMPLE  MATH
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2008, 04:32:38 AM »
Guess when they cut off the folks that can't pay back we see how many bad loans were made !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2008, 04:53:19 AM »
Maybe I ought to go out and buy a new high-end truck on credit that I, like most others, don't need, to stimulate the economy.  Now I am not a rich man, but I learned long ago not to use credit unless it is absolutely necessary.  I save up to buy my next vehicle (what a strange un-American concept)!  When I do buy one, I shop the used market and look at the "deals" on new.  Nobody is doing me a favor selling me a vehicle that is more than I can afford at "reasonable" interest rates.  This country was not built on credit, but it is sure going down on it.  Every time that credit is mentioned in the Bible, it has a negative connotation.  Maybe God knew what would happens when we get caught up in it!

As an aside, I seem to remember when pickup trucks were all low-powered 6 cylinder in 2-wheel drive that were owned by people who really needed them for their livelyhood, not for play.  Back in the 80's, a car magazine had an article on auto lingo.  It described 4-wheel drive as something that gets you stuck farther off-road than 2-wheel drive.  Has the situation improved?

Offline rex6666

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2008, 05:11:34 AM »
WOODCHUKHNTR
the situation has not changed, maybe gotten worse,
the 4x4 for some folks will not only get you stuck farther away but much deeper
Rex
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Texas is good for men and dogs, but it is hell on women and horses.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Credit Crisis a 'Catastrophe' for Auto Sales!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2008, 05:30:44 AM »
i  just  need  to  get  on  and  off  the  beach
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.