Author Topic: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle  (Read 17585 times)

0 Members and 28 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline NOLA

  • Trade Count: (56)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 565
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2008, 07:03:57 AM »
never mind
"Non sibi sed patriae" (Not self but country) U S Navy 1962-1966 ATR E-5

Offline Keith L

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2008, 07:54:59 AM »
This topic had been beaten to death on this and other forums.  Instead of continuing the discussion here you need to search the topic and read the posts most of us have read and re-read over the years.  Also search the web for the supreme court case that established the rules for changing barrels on Contenders.  Then you need to decide what of this applies to you and what doesn't. 
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2008, 09:58:27 AM »
Quote from: Posted by: Keith L
This topic had been beaten to death on this and other forums.  Instead of continuing the discussion here you need to search the topic and read the posts most of us have read and re-read over the years.  Also search the web for the supreme court case that established the rules for changing barrels on Contenders.  Then you need to decide what of this applies to you and what doesn't.
Jheesh !!  Kieth
Thanks

 I will do a search ASAP

But if I'm correct in my thinking
We all could do that each and every time we have a  ?
 If that where the case this place would be Moot
every Question can be turned into a SEARCH come on now !!!!
But your a Mod ........I am a rule follower
I'll no longer ask................... I'll search



No I'm not happy with your reply
Nothing good to say ..........Say nothing JMHO

God Bless
Tom

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26916
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2008, 12:44:13 PM »
While it is true most everything has been cussed and discussed here plenty of times and a search might find the answer if everyone did that then there would be no posts and no new activity and the site would dry up and die. New posts and new questions and comments even about the same old things are what keeps sites like this going and what keeps magazine writers working. They too can only rehash what has been printed a hundred times before.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Ladobe

  • Trade Count: (91)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3193
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2008, 01:18:47 PM »
(I typed this before I saw your response GB, but I'm still going to post it anyway as it has some points maybe...)


Easy folks, no need to get ruffled over this.

I can assure you from personal experience that moderating this forum can be a very thankless and time consuming job, and one that can be frustrating in trying to keep it flowing smoothly at times under Bill's somewhat strict guidelines while  trying to allow it to run as openly as possible.   So please give Keith the respect and support he deserves.   He is not the bad guy.

It is certainly true that asking questions is one of the primary uses of these forums.   But it is also true that most folks are too lazy to do a search on their own and read what has already been completely covered about the exact same topic on these forums many times before.   Instead they start a new thread and start the rehashing of it all over and over and over again.   Trust me, that gets to be frustrating for moderators and members alike who have seen it so many times before EVEN though they do want to try to help.

Add that it is also true that no matter how many times a topic is rehashed, some folks just can't seem to get it.   Just how many different ways does a person have to be told the sky is blue before they get it that the sky is in fact blue?   This thread has seen some resemblance of that.

IMO, when a topic involves safety or legalities (as this one does), common sense should dictate that you do your own research beyond any suggestions obtained here anyway.   While good suggestions from the experience of other members that point you in the right direction are made, all too often so are totally erroneous ones from keyboard experts and arm chair lawyers who don't have a clue what they are talking about.   It's the prudent soul that takes what they see posted here as only a guideline until they research and confirm the correct answers themselves at an expert source.   In this case that would be a qualified gunsmith and BATF.

FWIW...

Regards,

Larry




Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline Keith L

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2008, 01:40:44 PM »
Quote from: Posted by: Keith L
This topic had been beaten to death on this and other forums.  Instead of continuing the discussion here you need to search the topic and read the posts most of us have read and re-read over the years.  Also search the web for the supreme court case that established the rules for changing barrels on Contenders.  Then you need to decide what of this applies to you and what doesn't.
Jheesh !!  Kieth
Thanks

 I will do a search ASAP

But if I'm correct in my thinking
We all could do that each and every time we have a  ?
 If that where the case this place would be Moot
every Question can be turned into a SEARCH come on now !!!!
But your a Mod ........I am a rule follower
I'll no longer ask................... I'll search



No I'm not happy with your reply
Nothing good to say ..........Say nothing JMHO

God Bless
Tom

Gee, Tom, your post got 34 replies and quite a lot of comments which you chose to ignore prior to my suggesting you do some research on your own.  Seemed to me that our answers were not satisfying for you, and apparently my suggestion isn't either.  The thread was not locked, and you still are posting, so I don't see you having much to complain about.  I still think you would do well to research what has happened before, but do your thing.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Davemuzz

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2008, 03:53:50 PM »
Yeah. It seems to me your options are pretty simple:

1) Sell\Trade for another rifle barrel.

2) Weld a permanent extension on to the end of your existing barrel.

3) Do nothing.

In any case, once you have attached a rifle barrel to your frame, your frame is now a legal rifle and you can no longer legally mount a handgun barrel on it according to BAFT.

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2008, 02:26:01 AM »
Thanks you all for the replies including those who found it a bit irritating (sorry you felt that way)
I think GB gave me a reply I will consider very very deeply before any alterations to a Barrel
He stated and I'll Quote
Quote
Just cuz a barrel shoots good in its current configuration does NOT mean it will once you alter it and change barrel harmonics. It might and it might not
this is (could be ) so true
AND If I hadn't asked this on this Board and just did the Search
I truly don't think this would have entered into my Decision

I do respect all the Mods on GBO I'm sure its no walk in the Park
Thanks
Tom

Offline VARMONTER

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2009, 11:59:24 PM »
Oh this poor horse.... ::)
 
  So yea like is said above ..you have your options pretty well spelled out.
I am curious what  did you decide to do.??

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2009, 05:47:13 AM »
Oh this poor horse.... ::)
 
  So yea like is said above ..you have your options pretty well spelled out.
I am curious what  did you decide to do.??

  I left it as it was

Offline Davemuzz

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2009, 07:42:55 AM »
Oh this poor horse.... ::)
 
  So yea like is said above ..you have your options pretty well spelled out.
I am curious what  did you decide to do.??

  I left it as it was

I love it when a plan comes together!  ;D

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2009, 07:51:42 AM »
I love it when a plan comes together!  ;D


LMAO after all it is was a Terrific rehashed Idea  ;D ;D  ;D ;D ;D

Offline kiddekop

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2009, 05:43:34 PM »
Quote from: kiddekop
I called Fox Ridge Outfitters to speak to a male tech but they were out hunting so when I asked about the muzzle tamer the female said it would work great on my 15" encore 454 casull barrel ,sent it in and had it installed tried it when I rec'd it back just a lot noisier,the next call to the male techs revealed they don't work on the 454 casull.
I'm confused  ???
I was trying to tame down the 454 casull cause I had had rotator cuff and bicep surgery to my right shoulder and didn't want to risk another injury.Female tech said the muzzle tamer worked perfectly on the 454casull I took her word but it didn't change anything.I haven't fired that barrel in a long time with Winchester 260 partition gold ammo or the Magtech 260gr JFP casull ammo both generate too much recoil & torque for my system .

Offline kiddekop

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2009, 05:57:02 PM »
I think the TC Muzzle Tamer is a screw on or glue on and not permanently attached so would NOT make it legal as a rifle even if over 16".
The best muzzle brake I have was installed by www.probed2000.com  on my 15 inch 30-06 barrel it will unscrew. The gs used to work for KDF in TX. I think the muzzle tamer is soldered on.I've had years of LE training with continuing education on firearms about what is or isn't legal so there's no way I'd ever try to turn a handgun barrel into a rifle barrel. I don't want to go inside of the greybar motel where I used to put others who were slow learners!

Offline Ruskin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 365
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2009, 03:35:20 AM »
With today's expoxy or chemical weld expoxy, once the muzzle brake is screwed on, it is impossble to take off by hand.  I suppose one could take it off mechanically, but I think it would destroy the barrel and brake.  Is it not attached permanently?

Offline Keith L

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2009, 08:45:07 AM »
That would be one to be taken up with BATF.  Get it in writing.  Notarized.

I haven't seen it myself but I have heard about TC brakes going down range with the bullet.  In that case however it was installed wasn't permanent.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2009, 03:05:18 PM »
GUY'S
If you'll look here http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,163139.0.html
This poster Say's this thing will make your 14 a Legal Rifle Barrel
I asked him to explain it too me in a PM
Will see and I'll repost here , if this is true Wooo Hooooo
My Prayers are answered

Tommyt

Offline Keith L

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3781
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2009, 06:16:53 PM »
That looks like what is goobered on to the end of a barrel I bought a while ago.  mine is welded on, looks like crap, but the barrel does shoot well.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."  Benjamin Franklin

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2009, 02:57:22 AM »
 I got the PM and now also the Post says there is a Hole on the bottom and needs to be Brazed through that hole to make Legal  http://www.deltaforce.com:80/  these people make it
Back to the Board !!

Offline Steve P

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2009, 09:03:37 AM »
GUY'S
If you'll look here http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,163139.0.html
This poster Say's this thing will make your 14 a Legal Rifle Barrel
I asked him to explain it too me in a PM
Will see and I'll repost here , if this is true Wooo Hooooo
My Prayers are answered

Tommyt

That is a Choate Barrel extension and, if installed correctly, the barrel can be used as a carbine barrel.   I have seen them welded on and I have seem them attached with JB Weld.  I have one of the JB Weld ones at home.  Hole is still filled in, but extension is not on a barrel.  I have seen it fly off of several barrels and it actually came on a barrel that someone sold me on another thread.  To get the JB Weld to work, you have to do some finish removing and some roughing of the steel with a file.  IMHO, it would be better to do the spot weld with a wire feed welder.  This would keep temperature low and will be easy to remove with lathe, dremel, or similar type tool.

Contenders are manufactured with optional barrels and stocks.  Some states have specific laws that restrict how you can assemble them (Kalifornya for example) and some don't.  Per BATF, if the the barrel is 16" or longer from muzzle to breach, you can have a rifle stock on it.  If the barrel is less than 16" and you have a rifle stock attached, you are illegal and can be arrested on a Federal offense.

There are some wierd laws out there and you have to be familiar with them or you can get yourself into trouble.  In WA state, there are several that make you want to scratch your head.  Muzzle loaders have to have exposed ignitions.  You also have to have traditional style ignitors.  This leaves out a good portion of the newer style muzzle loaders.  You cannot use 209 ignition.  You cannot use the 25acp case with rifle primer.  You have to use percussion cap, musket cap, or flintlock.  These percussion caps, mustket caps, and flintlock actions cannot have an artificial or manufactured protection system.  So you cannot have one of the CVAs with the falling block type action.  You cannot use the T/Cs on contender, G2 or Encore frames.  You cannot use an inline where the bolt closes and has an internal firing pin.  You can only use inlines with bolt assembly that cocks open and slams shut on firing.  You can only use sidelock percussion systems or flintlock.  Mess up and use one of the new guns, and expect to loose the gun, your vehicle, camping gear, and about two years of hunting priveledge. 

But I can take out a 357 revolver and hunt deer with it.  No restrictions on barrel length, sights, etc.

Go figure!!

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline greenmtnboy

  • Trade Count: (19)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2009, 02:25:45 AM »
 

Yeah. It seems to me your options are pretty simple:

1) Sell\Trade for another rifle barrel.

2) Weld a permanent extension on to the end of your existing barrel.

3) Do nothing.

In any case, once you have attached a rifle barrel to your frame, your frame is now a legal rifle and you can no longer legally mount a handgun barrel on it according to BAFT.

Id like to see where you got that bit of BS..   Thats why most people buy a frame in a pistol configuration so you can change it to a Rifle if you want and back to a pistol later.  Just because you change it to a Rifle doesnt mean you cant change it back to a Pistol.   Now if it were the other way around and your frame started out as a Rifle You cant change it to a pistol at anytime.  Even if you plan to change it back to a rifle later.    NMHO  BATF Regs
 
ROD

Offline Ruskin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 365
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2009, 04:04:34 AM »
I have looked at a copy of federal regs from BATF, and I don't find any real definition of barrel or how to attach a "permanent" muzzlebrake to make a barrel 16".

An argument could be made that any barrel can be shortened less than 16".  If JB weld can be used to make an attachment which needs high heat to take it off then what is different from a weld which can be defeated with heat?

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2009, 04:10:56 AM »

In any case, once you have attached a rifle barrel to your frame, your frame is now a legal rifle and you can no longer legally mount a handgun barrel on it according to BAFT.


by: greenmtnboy quote : Id like to see where you got that bit of BS..

GMB I agree with you 100%
I believe that Dave mistook that for IF you EVER Register your Pistol as a RIFLE you cannot return to a Pistol length barrel unless you go through the (almost impossible ) the BATF to have it changed to a PISTOL

Offline Davemuzz

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2009, 08:12:49 AM »

In any case, once you have attached a rifle barrel to your frame, your frame is now a legal rifle and you can no longer legally mount a handgun barrel on it according to BAFT.


by: greenmtnboy quote : Id like to see where you got that bit of BS..

GMB I agree with you 100%
I believe that Dave mistook that for IF you EVER Register your Pistol as a RIFLE you cannot return to a Pistol length barrel unless you go through the (almost impossible ) the BATF to have it changed to a PISTOL

No...Dave didn't "mistook" anything. Read what I said. IF YOU EVER ATTACH A RIFLE BARREL AND A BUTTSTOCK TO YOUR FRAME, IT IS NOW LEGALLY A RIFLE AND CANNOT GO BACK TO A HANDGUN WITHOUT LEGAL APPROVAL FROM BAFT.

Now, I'm not going to argue with you guys about this. There is a permanent post at the top of the T\C Rifle forum that is rather long. I took part in this argument\conversation on that post, and if you read it, you will or should come to the same conclusion that "we" (yes, there were many who came to this conclusion) came to.

The post that gets to the "meat and potato's" of it starts here http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,131141.120.html at post #138 on page 5.

Check it out if you want to.

Dave

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2009, 11:24:44 AM »
Thanks Dave HERE IS MY take look at what I put in Bold
I didn't want to copy paste the entire Page so I pulled a few Arguments from the GOV. discussions on this page
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-0164.ZO.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

United States v. Zeidman, 444 F. 2d 1051, 1053 (CA7 1971) (pistol and attachable shoulder stock found "in different drawers of the same dresser" constitute a short barreled rifle). Here it is true, of course, that some of the parts could be used without ever assembling a firearm, but the likelihood of that is belied by the utter uselessness of placing the converting parts with the others except for just such a conversion. Where the evidence in a given case supports a finding of such uselessness, the case falls within the fair intendmentof "otherwise producing a firearm." See 26 U.S.C. § 5845(i). [n.5]

Here, however, we are not dealing with an aggregation of parts that can serve no useful purpose except the assembly of a firearm, or with an aggregation having no ostensible utility except to convert a gun into such a weapon. There is, to be sure, one resemblance to the latter example in the sale of the Contender with the converter kit, for packaging the two has no apparent object except to convert the pistol into something else at some point. But the resemblance ends with the fact that the unregulated Contender pistol can be converted not only into a short barreled rifle, which is a regulated firearm, but also into a long barreled rifle, which is not. The packaging of pistol and kit has an obvious utility for those who want both a pistol and a regular rifle, and the question is whether the mere possibility of their use to assemble a regulated firearm is enoughto place their combined packaging within the scope of "making" one.



It is of course clear from the face of the Act that the NFA's object was to regulate certain weapons likely to be used for criminal purposes, just as the regulation of short barreled rifles, for example, addresses a concealable weapon likely to be so used. But when Thompson/Center urges us to recognize that "the Contender pistol and carbine kit is not a criminal type weapon," Brief for Respondent 20, itdoes not really address the issue of where the line should be drawn in deciding what combinations of parts are "made" into short barreled rifles. Its argument goes to the quite different issue whether the single shot Contender should be treated as a firearm within the meaning of the Act even when assembled with a rifle stock.

Since Thompson/Center's observations on this extraneous issue shed no light on the limits of unassembled "making" under the Act, we will say no more about congressional purpose. Nor are we helped by the NFA's legislative history, in which we find nothing to support a conclusion one way or the other about the narrow issue presented here.


After applying the ordinary rules of statutory construction, then, we are left with an ambiguous statute. The key to resolving the ambiguity lies in recognizing that although it is a tax statute that we construe now in a civil setting, the NFA has criminal applications that carry no additional requirement of willfulness. Cf. Cheek v. United States, 498 U. S. ____, ____ (1991) (slip op., at 7) ("Congress has . . . softened the impact of the common law presumption [that ignorance of the law is no defense to criminal prosecution] by making specific intent to violate the law an element of certain federal criminal tax offenses"); 26 U.S.C. §§ 7201 7203 (criminalizing willful evasion of taxes and willful failure to file a return). Making a firearm without approval may be subject to criminal sanction, as is possession of an unregistered firearm and failure to pay the tax on one, 26 U.S.C. §§ 5861 5871. It is proper, therefore, to apply the rule of lenity and resolve the ambiguity in Thompson/Center's favor. See Crandon v. United States, 494 U.S. 152, 168 (1990) (applying lenity in interpreting a criminal statute invoked in a civil action); Commissioner v. Acker,361 U.S. 87, 91 (1959). [n.9] Accordingly, we conclude that the Contender pistol and carbine kit when packaged together by Thompson/Center have not been "made" into a short barreled rifle for purposes of the NFA. [n.10] The judgment of the Court of Appeals is therefore

Affirmed


I would think we MADE it well actually we didn't make(made) one

EDITED TOO SAY
 Do not do as I do, Do what you feel the Law states my Comments and actions are Mine and Mine A Lone

Offline Davemuzz

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2009, 06:19:40 PM »
Yeah,...I hear what you are saying. (This has been discussed in the post I referenced). But this case is referenced to T\C specifically. What they are saying is that T\C is NOT the "person or entity" that is doing the final "assembly" of the gun.

The buyer of the Contender pistol and carbine kit is (or could be) the "person or entity" who is the one doing the final assembly. So, accordingly, it is at THAT POINT where the determination of handgun or longgun is made. (IE: If you BUY the kit, THEN attach the longgun barrel to the frame...then that's technically it!! The gun is technically a longgun forever!! But that determination is not made until the buyer of that pistol\carbine kit actually puts it together.

Dave

Offline expeditionx

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 133
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2009, 02:13:58 AM »
 
Id like to see where you got that bit of BS..     NMHO  BATF Regs
 

He didn't dream this stuff up its ATF applied ruling.
Once a buttstock is inserted, it is always legally in a classification
of rifle.  The Feds  consider that: once a rifle always a rifle.
Unfortunately, state law will not supercede the Federal regulations.
Registering in city, county, or state will have no bearing on the matter.
Debating this issue is like debating whether or not I can farm cocaine
on my property because my state might not have an actual law against
doing so.

Offline Ruskin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 365
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2009, 08:53:58 AM »
It is interesting Browning has a pistol/carbine combo in the buckmark I believe.  I have seen a kit which can be used by 1911 or another semi-auto pistol which makes it into a carbine.  Anyone remember the guns I am talking about?

Any discussion on these combos? 


Offline Steve P

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2009, 09:38:15 AM »
 
Id like to see where you got that bit of BS..     NMHO  BATF Regs
 

He didn't dream this stuff up its ATF applied ruling.
Once a buttstock is inserted, it is always legally in a classification
of rifle.  The Feds  consider that: once a rifle always a rifle.
Unfortunately, state law will not supercede the Federal regulations.
Registering in city, county, or state will have no bearing on the matter.
Debating this issue is like debating whether or not I can farm cocaine
on my property because my state might not have an actual law against
doing so.


I agree, however, Thompson Center never sold, to my knowledge, a Contender Carbine.  They only sold Contender Carbine kits which included the barrel, forend, and stock.  You could, and still can purchase a Thompson Center Contender frame, and you could, and still can purchase a Thompson Center Contender barrel.  I doubt you will find many, if any, Contenders sold by Thompson Center that came with a designated caliber and barrel length.  Caliber and barrel lengths were options.  That is why the supreme court ruling was such a "win" for Thompson Center.  A few of the final comments were similar to:

The decision is a tremendous victory in several respects. Law-abiding firearm owners won,[8] and BATF lost, the first case the Supreme Court has ever decided on the classification of a specific firearm. This sends a strong message to BATF not to classify anything and everything as an NFA firearm.

The immediate beneficiaries are tens of thousands of Contender pistol owners who purchased carbine kits made by other manufacturers, who can now sleep at night knowing they are not felons. Countless other consumers may now purchase carbine kits for sporting use.


This is the only ruling (as of that time, there may be more by now) by the Supreme Court that references a specific firearm.  The wording of the law is ambiguous and is therefore not applicable to the Thompson Center Contender.  If you have a Thompson Center Contender frame, you can legally have a pistol grip on it with pistol barrels.  You can also have a butt stock on it as long as it has a barrel of 16" or longer.  If you, the person assembling the parts, puts on a barrel less than 16" when a butt stock is in place, YOU have assembled an illegal weapon and are in violation of the NFA firearm law and are subject to arrest, UNLESS....you have paid your $200 fee and have a your license for this weapon.

You can argue all you want.  Doesn't change the facts.  Contenders is Contenders and Thompson Center never made no short barrelled rifle.  Therefore, if you have a Contender frame, you can change from butt stock to pistol grip all you want as long as the barrel is 16" or longer when the butt stock is in place.  If you have a butt stock on and a barrel shorter than 16", you better have the license for it, or prepare to spend a few years in jail.

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline Tommyt

  • Trade Count: (51)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me make 15 inch barrel A rifle
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2009, 11:37:19 AM »
Steve
 Thank you I totally agree with you ,when I make a Contender a Rifle
I assemble a Butt Stock to the Frame and the Attach a Barrel of 16 inch's  or Longer
when I am done with it
I remove the Barrel and Butt Stock
I  now take my TC Frame attach a Pistol Grip followed by any Length barrel and now Have a TC Pistol
I sleep well at night and am not a Felon

Quote
Ruskin

Are you thinking of this its made by Mec-tech systems
I am really wanting one its a  great Idea , but they are over my "Idea" of fair Priced.
 I truly think thats why you don't see many around
http://www.mechtechsys.com/
The Frame on this is a 1911 and they have others and in Different Cal's


EDITED TOO SAY
 Do not do as I do, Do what you feel the Law states my Comments and actions are Mine and Mine A Lone