Author Topic: Hornady HM2 - Dead? (Read 2308 times)

LaOtto222 · « **on:** October 24, 2008, 12:34:20 PM »

Has the HM2 went the way of the Do-Do bird? It seems that I can not find a gun made in them any more. Are they like the 5mm Remington; a good idea that just did not sell well. It seemed that everyone had at least one gun available and some had several. Now I can not find them. Am I missing where I can buy them? I know ammo is available, but if they are not selling new guns, it will dry up after a while.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 24, 2008, 01:32:30 PM »

Here's 6 pages on the topic at RFC, it started 2yrs ago, has recent updates, apparently Ruger still offers 2 models, CZ is still in the market too.

Tim

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147503

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/firearms/FAProdResults?type=Rifle&subtype=Bolt+Action&SearchIn=All&family=Model&variation=Variation&bct=Yes&caliber=.17+Mach+2&finish=Finish&blength=Barrel+Length&work=Yes&imagefield.x=18&imagefield.y=7

http://cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=1

http://cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=2

http://cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=67

Ladobe · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2008, 01:40:30 PM »

Just some thoughts to take or leave of discuss as you see fit.

I do still hear people saying they have recently bought or want to buy a new 17HM2 or 17HMR. Whether most will get several of them like some of us did I don't know.

I think its natural that sales slow down after the surge of buying when something new comes out. The market can get saturated IOW, but eventually it might pick up again and find its level. If that level is high enough the MFG's will still offer at least some firearms and ammo for them.

Ammo prices seem to be the deciding factor in these hard economic times for some folks considering buying the 17's. Probably that's more the times than the firearms themselves if sales are slipping though, and could get better.

Negativity by folks who are not sold on there being any advantages of the 17 over their 22 counter parts probably costs some sales. Funny how many of them yelling the loudest though are folks who have never even owned a 17HM2/17HMR.

Comparison to the 5mm Rem MAG? Wonder if more 17HM2 rifles haven't already been sold than during the entire run of 591/592 5mm rifles. That was only about 50K rifles total. Maybe that would be enough to keep some building firearms and at least one ammo MFG offering fodder for them. Or maybe there's the possibility of upgrading the 17HM2's to centerfire 17's just like many folks have done with their Remington 5mm MAGS's if the ammo does go away?

It probably is kind of scary to many folks I'd bet that only two (or so I've heard?) companies make all the 17 rimfire ammo though.

Regardless of any of this, some of us will continue to shoot and enjoy our 17 rimfires as long as ammo for them is available. And some of us who planned ahead just in case (like me) bought extra firearms and stockpiled ammo to the point that they will never run out of either in this lifetime even if production of both stopped today. That's a lesson I learned from the 5mm MAG I bought new BTW, and the two Winchester 1903's I had 40 years ago.

Guy Pike · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2008, 01:41:57 PM »

Don't know if it's real but the Savage website also shows the Mark two in 17hm2.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2008, 12:47:14 AM »

OK guys, I got pointed in some different directions. The Savage site does list the Mark II under 17 rim fires as available, I do not know if it is real or they just have not updated their site for a while. Ruger does list two, both in thier 77/17 series. When you look at the suggested retail price, they say they are discontinued. Then there is the CZ site, they list the 17 HM2 under some of the 452 and 453 rifles. I knew there had to be some available some where, but it does seem the choices are shrinking considerably. The only modifications they have to make to a 22 rim fire bolt is the barrel for Pete's sake. They already make 17 HMR barrels, how hard can it be to chamber it in 17 HM2 and mount it on their 22 bolt action. I understand the autos are a different matter. Since it is so easy to do, why are they getting dropped? To me the sales have to be way down and eventually they will not be available at all. I am not sure I want one or not. I was thinking about getting a cheap one. I may get a Savage, if they are really available. I think you can still get 17 HM2 barrels for the Contender too. They are not cheap in my opinion, some where North of $250; about the same I can get a whole Savage for.

I was not talking about the 17 HMR, which is still very popular. Every one making a gun lists a 17 HMR. They seem to be more popular than the 22 Magnum. In fact I am not so sure that the 17 HMR did not boost the 22 Magnum's popularity.

I remember when the 5mm first came out. The guns were expensive (good, but pricey) and the ammo was too. I wanted one real bad, but I did not have the funds to buy the rifle and keep it stoked. It's real world performance was not that much more than the 22 Magnum and they were real expensive when compared to available rifles in 22 Mag. At least not enough more to off set the expense.

czmeister · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2008, 04:32:26 AM »

How can the 17M2 die? It appears to be a kit cartridge in the purest form. A 22 stinger case necked down to accept the same 17 grain projectile as is used in it's big brother. The 5mm mag was truly a unique round but even that is being given new life as CZ will be adding it to it's 452/453 lineup it after the 1st of the year.

Ladobe · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2008, 09:58:08 AM »

Quote from: LaOtto222 on October 25, 2008, 12:47:14 AM

...
I was not talking about the 17 HMR, which is still very popular. Every one making a gun lists a 17 HMR.
...

Brings up an interesting point I can relate on between the two based on personal experience with my 3 17HMR's and 3 17HM2's AND the experience of all my hunting pards who also have multiple firearms for both 17 rimfires. In real life, ie the killing fields, the 17HM2 really doesn't give all that much up to the 17HMR on any of the smaller critters. You loose a little range, but not enough killing power to matter until the size of the varmint critter goes up is about all. On the other side, the 17HM2 is the better choice of the two for edible small game as it destroys less meat. Add that you get two to three shots from the 17HM2 to one from the 17HMR for the same dollar spent on ammo. So most of the gents I hunt with prefer the 17HM2 over the 17HMR for both small varmint and small game hunting. They reserve their 17 Hummers for when the ranges get longer, the winds a little stiffer or the size of the animal is larger.

Makes me wonder why the 17HMR remains more popular with hunters AND firearms manufacturers than the 17HM2. Easy answer may be because of which one came along first. If the 17HM2 had come out first it would probably be the more popular of the two. Another possibility may be that way more 17HMR firearms were sold than 17HM2's, ie not as many people jumped on the 17HM2 bandwagon, so 17 Hummer owners and MFG's didn't see the need to have/offer both.

So I still say if you want a 17HM2 then get one, find which ammo it likes best and start stockpiling that ammo for it. If you can't do it all at once as some of were able to, do it on a regular basis a little at a time. That way the ammo would not break the monthly family budget and eventually you'd have enough to last a lifetime.

As far as I know, Cooper, CZ, Ruger, Sako, Savage, Thompson Center and maybe NEF still offer 17HM2's. Some of the custom barrel MFG's still offer 17HM2 replacement barrels for certain 22LR rimfire rifles as well, and some specialty shops still convert certain 22LR rifles to 17HM2. Along those lines...

One of my 17HM2's is a Ruger 77/22 I've owned since the mid 80's that I simply bought a 17HM2 GM barrel for. It only took a few minutes to install for an instant 17HM2. That's a very budget minded way to get a 17HM2, and you can always go back to the 22LRF barrel anythine you want or if the 17HM2 ammo does in fact go away. If that happened all you'd be out is the low cost of the barrel rather than the cost of a complete firearm.

FWIW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2008, 11:18:11 AM »

H&R dumped the 17M2 this year, as well as the 22mag Ultra and the Versa Pack 22/410. $:-\$

Tim

kyelkhunter3006 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2008, 01:56:11 PM »

T/C still offers it in the G2 and the R55 semi auto rifle.

Plinker · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2008, 03:00:45 PM »

I think some of the Guys over at RFC have made a sport out of obtaining 17hm2 ammo.

I have a couple thousand rounds myself.

Natchez has Remington for 3.59 if ya buy 10 boxes or more.

I have a Greenmountain barrel on my old 77/22 that shoots great.
Also have a MGM 10" and a TC 23" for the contenders.
All of 'em shoot great with little or no tune'n.

One of the best squirrel rounds that has ever been = JMHO of course.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2008, 01:10:23 AM »

OK, the 17 HM2 is not dead. It still looks like it is wheezing a little to me. Ruger has dropped the 17 HM2 from it's line (discontinued) as has a few others that once offered at least one rifle. The Cooper and Sako rifles are fine rifles, but they are not cheap; almost in the custom gun class. That leaves T/C, Savage and CZ as the only real gun makers that are going to do any volume at all. How long will it be before they drop it too? Why would the others drop it if they were selling some? I never said that it was a bad cartridge, in fact I have been thinking about one for a while. It does fill a SMALL gap between the 22 Long Rifle and the 22 Mag/17HMR. If I want to hunt squirrels, I very rarely get a shot over 50 yards, so a 22 LR fills the bill nicely. If I am talking about small vermin, who cares how dead I make them? I may still get one in a Savage or CZ. But how badly do I need to fill that gap? I know that is a personal choice. The 22 LR can be had in many forms as the 22 Mag and 17 HMR. I have 22's, I have 22 Mags, I have a 17 HMR. You have to admit that there are a lot of people that promote the 17 HM2 as a great cartridge must feel the same way I do (it is going away), because they are stocking up on ammo. They must feel that there is a strong possibility that they will not be able to get ammo some day for their rifles. Does this create an artificially higher demand for ammo that will dry up in the near future because these people will have bought a "life time supply" and not buy any more?

Ladobe · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2008, 04:49:45 PM »

We could over anaylize all of this until the cows come home, but it won't change anything. If the market is saturated to the point that sales are down then models are going to be dropped by firearms MFG's. Nothing new in the firearms industry, and the same will hold true for the ammo MFG's as well.

In my case the 17HM2 and 17HMR don't fill a "SMALL" gap between the 22LR/22MAG, they replace both of them completely. Personal choice.

Also in my case, I didn't stockpile the ammo for fear of it ever going away, although from past experience (with the 22WRF & 5RFM ammo) I admit it was a small glimmer in the back of my mind. At the time I bought all of the 17HMR ammo, and later all the 17HM2 ammo there was no indication that either of them might ever go away - they were both still new on the scene at that time. I stockpiled because of the variations being seen from lot to lot... I wanted all my ammo to be from the same lot that I found shot best in each one of my 17 rimfires. So I bought a lifetime supply of each of those lots. Again personal choice. Did doing that create an artificial demand for the ammo way back when I did it? Don't know, but doubt it because of when it was. If anything it added to the shortages seen at those times. Will I ever have to buy 17 rimfire ammo again? Nope. Will I ever buy 22LR/22MAG ammo again? Nope, don't shoot them anymore.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2008, 02:27:56 AM »

Stopped in by my favorite gun shop yesterday and there on the wall was a new HM2 with black stock for $145.00 out the door.
Hornaday ammo was $6.95 a box for 17gr vmax.
Now I have both.
Hope it shoots!

LONGTOM

yooper77 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2008, 03:03:17 AM »

The 17 HM2 is dead to me, along with the 17 HMR just my choice. Actually they were never alive, once I saw the ammo price.

I have 2 older 22's from my father and grand father that still go hunting with me. I have 5 firearms in total that take the 22 LR. I love the 22 Short, Long and Long Rifle cartridge's for any and all small game that doesn't fly. I enjoy being able to pick up a brick of 22 LR ammo.

I do have a 22 WMR cylinder for my Ruger Single Six, but use it only for close range work when I am varmint hunting. The 22 LR cylinder is capable of great accuracy out to 50 yards for squirrel, rabbit, and any vermin.

My father in-law has a Marlin rifle in 22 WMR and it very accurate out to 100 yards.

yooper77

coyotejoe · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2008, 05:26:27 AM »

We hear a lot of talk about ammo cost when speaking of the .22 WMR or the .17 HMR and m2 and certainly they are a bit much for a "plinker" but for a hunting rifle, how much ammo does one really burn? The .17 HMR, though much more expensive than the .22LR is still cheaper than shotgun shells people use for the same game.

yooper77 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 27, 2008, 05:30:12 AM »

Yes, the 17 HMR is cheaper than shotgun shells, but I cant hit a flushing pheasant with a rifle. (not even remotely the same)

All my nonflying small game is taken with the 22 LR.

yooper77

coyotejoe · « **Reply #16 on:** October 27, 2008, 05:54:15 AM »

I agree that the .22LR is a better choice for edible game. I learned long ago to take only head shots on edible game and the effective range of the .22LR exceeds the limitation of my ability to place shots in normal hunting conditions, or even to see small game generally speaking. The exception would be marmots and jack rabbits which can often be seen at quite long range, there the .17 HMR is good to have. I've never been into blowing up gophers but if one does a lot of that sort of thing the .17 HMR will more than double the range of a .22LR, at least on a windless day. I do see clear niches for the rimfire magnums, not so much so for the mk2, but no one is saying the .22LR and even the .22 short are not good small game rounds.

Plinker · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:55:10 AM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on October 27, 2008, 02:27:56 AM

Stopped in by my favorite gun shop yesterday and there on the wall was a new HM2 with black stock for $145.00 out the door.
Hornaday ammo was $6.95 a box for 17gr vmax.
Now I have both.
Hope it shoots!

LONGTOM

Enjoy ya new rifle,they are a lot of fun.

There's better prices on ammo tho.
Remington and Eley can be had for about half what your Hornady cost and shoots just as good.
Natches has the Rem's for 3.59 if ya buy 10 boxes or more. Ammotogo has Eley for not much more last time I checked.

Have Fun.

navylawdog · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2008, 08:32:36 AM »

Stopped in by my favorite gun shop yesterday and there on the wall was a new HM2 with black stock for $145.00 out the door.
Hornaday ammo was $6.95 a box for 17gr vmax.
Now I have both.
Hope it shoots!

LONGTOM
[/quote]

Enjoy ya new rifle,they are a lot of fun.

There's better prices on ammo tho.
Remington and Eley can be had for about half what your Hornady cost and shoots just as good.
Natches has the Rem's for 3.59 if ya buy 10 boxes or more. Ammotogo has Eley for not much more last time I checked.

Have Fun.
[/quote]

Of course that all depends on what your particular gun shoots well because my Savage in .17M2 shoots Hornady bullets outstandingly well but the Remingtons are just absolutely horrible. I don't really know what the difference is or if there really is a difference other than the color of the tips but it knows the difference. Powder is the only thing I can think of.

Navylawdog

southarkrob · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2008, 05:41:58 PM »

If you are looking for a great out of the box 17hm2 look at the Magnum Research magnumlite rifles, with the carbon fiber barrels. Mine is scary accurate....I have 3 hm2's and this one is my favorite...actually my dad likes it so much it stays in his truck most of the time. He has killed 2 coyotes with it while checking cows. I have a 717 marlin that shoots pretty good too... I squirrel hunt alot after deer season and I won't even use a 22 anymore. I have shot several squirrels in the ribs and haven't seen a whole lot of meat damage. Most of the people that I have talked to that say that they won't own a hm2 I ask them if they have ever hunted with one and 90% of their answers are "no". My dad became a believer after he saw me shoot a coyote crossing the haymeadow behind our farm at almost 120 yds...(I know its not a yote gun...but it was leaning in the corner and you shoot coyotes when you see em round our place) I like the Mag Researchs so much I bought a 22 mag also and it shoots just as good... I have had 17 hmrs and they don't really interest me much anymore... 4 coyotes have died this year with the Remington HM2 ammo.... check your local Gander Mtns and ask them to check the other stores inventory for a Marlin 717 Hm2 semi auto...I bought one right after Christmas for less than $150 and it shoots good and never has jammed...wish that I had bought more.

navylawdog · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2008, 02:42:54 AM »

Southarkrob,

So did the .17M2 drop the yote in its tracks or did it run a little ways? I had never even thought about using a M2 for yotes. I know some around here use the .17HMR quite a bit with success. The biggest thing I ever shot with my .17 was a big skunk that was acting a bit funny. It never even quivered after I shot it (didn't spray either).

Navylawdog