Author Topic: 223 and corsican sheep or spanish goats? (Read 3958 times)

drdougrx · « **on:** October 25, 2008, 03:15:08 AM »

So I have this excursion in December for hogs. I will also have the chance for some exotic sheep and goats. I've shot quite a few before with larger calibers and would usually use 243. these animals weigh less than 100lbd usually. But... I'd like to use my Rem700 lite varmint stainless fluted...I'm even going to leave my VX-II 6.5 x 18 scope on it.

So....do you think I need the 60gr partition or just use the 55gr Win sp that I have a ton of?

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2008, 03:17:16 PM »

Tis your money. If you draw blood you bought the animal. Are you willing to pay up if it goes wrong? If so go for it. Folks who've used them say they work fine on whitetail and if so should on both the sheep and goats as long as you're shooting the younger smaller ones at any rate. I'm sure it would be an interesting experiment.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2008, 03:28:22 PM »

WHile I haven't shot any goats I have shot some sheep with bow and arrow and found them to be a much softer target that even a small white tail. I'd go with the partition if it shot well in your rifle.

drdougrx · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2008, 03:32:02 AM »

Picked up some partitions lat night. I'll load some and see how they group and then decide. thanks!

markc · « **Reply #4 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:51:40 AM »

I've not seen any shot with that particular caliber. I did shoot a few with a TC in 7-30 waters and they all died, though it wasn't fast and that is larger caliber. Dunno, I've only taken one whitetail with a .223 sp and wasn't impressed with the lack of pass through or blood trail. Like GB said, it's your money. How long will your shots be?

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:50:29 AM »

Lotsa folks seem to push the .223 and .22-250 for deer. I've just never been that curious how they work to try them. That they can kill deer is a given as folks have done it but to me that doesn't mean they are appropriate to the chore for most folks. I see it more along the lines of a stunt than a proper hunting practice.

I'd not expect much of a blood trail to follow assuming they don't fall within sight and it seems to me that if the ground vegetation is heavy it would be easy to lose them. But then I've never seen an exotics pasture yet with heavy ground cover as they always seem to have a bit of an over population of animals for the area and thus have to feed them to keep them going in there. Browse lines are very common in most I've visited.

ttank0789 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2008, 11:26:40 AM »

A few years back I went on a hunt with my cousin and his son and his son shot a Hawaiian ram with a .223 at roughly 80 yards and it went straight down. I think he was using a 60 grain bullet but I'm not positive. I don't know what bullet it was either

Bugflipper · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2008, 12:19:39 PM »

Since you already bought the partitians they will work fine. In corsicans, I belive you are talking about the american black belly? Just wandering because some folks call the mouflons corsicans as well. I used to raise black belly, now mouflon. Both act about the same. When struck they fold up and expire quickly. Stay away from the 55 gr win. It's to thin skinned and will let you down.
I have used a 55 gr rem( probably about the same) and there is no exit on a neck shot. If the partitions don't work out look into the 64 gr win power point. It has a thick skin and will give you a pass through even on quartering. I have shot north to south for a test and it ended at the pelvic bone.
Another is the barnes tsx(I believe 52gr may be mistaken) I have tested it 3 times, one was a frontal shot, it exited the hind quarters, breaking the pelvic bone.

drdougrx · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2008, 02:09:46 PM »

Welllll thanks everyone!!!

I've actually shot a ton of sheep ... corsicans, pure mouflons, merino and jacobs. I've used 30-06, 270win and 243. I thought I'd be cool to try the 223. I do expect win pp 55gr to be soft. I expect the 60gr partition to be better. The shots be very long and across big fields or close through the brush. No matter! I'm gonna use'm and I'll post the results!!

markc · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:02:57 AM »

Good luck Doug. It is always exciting planning a hunt. I'm looking forward to reading about your results and seeing the pics when you return..If it works out well, I might have to take my ultra varmit in .223 out for the same thing....

drdougrx · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2008, 04:05:58 AM »

Hey Bugflipper!!!

I was reading over these posts because I have a dilemma. The 60gr noslers do not shpoot well at all nor do any 60gr+ bullets. Seems the twist on my REM700 Lite Varmint is 1-12. 55gr bullets (w 27gr W748) will go into a dime sized hole. Here's the rub....the bullets I have are Win PPs. Now what??

I don't know if I can get bear claws or TSXs....I was think of 55gr sierra gamekings. Any one have any thoughts?

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2008, 04:15:39 AM »

I do have thoughts but ya really don't wanna hear them Doug. I really don't agree with the use of .22s for big game. To me it's more in the line of a stunt than real hunting use. Yeah they have and can work but bullets suitable for it are limited and being kinda long don't work well thru the majority of rifles so chambered. Even then only the most precise of bullet placement results in clean kills.

I just don't like the idea. As I said that's my thoughts and I'm sure it's not what you wanted to hear.

drdougrx · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2008, 05:15:44 AM »

GB.....I ALWAYS want to hear what you have to say. If I didn't, I wouldn't respect'ya. These sheep are no laeger then a large dog...100lbs at most. They aren't deer and I wouldn't hunt deer with the cartridge. My 243 is out of commission and being re-built...so that's out. The 7x57 that I'm going to use is dialed in w 175gr RN and not at all suitable for smaller game. My 270 is overkill , having shot sheep with it quite a bit before. I expect I'll use it though as I continue to "make the 223 work". I have a great 150gr Nosbt load that I've taken all kinds of game with before....so...I may wimp out and go w that one. BTW...why are we so enamoured w the 223 for humans and not for small sheep.....question for the ages.....

I my organization ( my other life) ... yes men don't last very long.

Graybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2008, 05:44:34 AM »

We've shot several Corsican sheep as well tho I'm sure not as many as you. I'd say all we've shot (we being me, my wife and oldest son) went I believe went over 100 pounds tho likely no more than 150. Still as heavy as most white tail deer does and young bucks taken here in Bama. I'd say on average they weighted more than most deer I've shot here in Bama other than a few larger bucks.

I used my .270 Winchester and .44 magnum handgun on mine, my wife used a .44 magnum rifle on hers and my son used the 7-08 that is now my wife's rifle on his. We each shot two on that trip. I shot one other with a .44 magnum handgun that was sickly and they wanted put out of its misery.

I'd say the .270 and 7-08 were both ideal for the use. If the bullets are placed in the heart/lung area there is really no eatable meat there anyway to lose altho we donated all our meat to the Hunters feeding the Hungry program.

I have no doubt a properly placed .224" bullet can and will kill them but the problem is most are intended for varmints and pretty much blow up on impact. Such might or might not even get to the lungs or heart but if they do no doubt the damage done will result in a quick kill.

Personally I'd use either of the centerfires mentioned. The 7x57 to me would be ideal same as the 7-08. The RN 175s should do less not more damage than say 140s would.

drdougrx · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2008, 06:08:05 AM »

Points well taken....I suspect I'll not have much time to mess with the 223 before I go anyway.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #15 on:** November 15, 2008, 08:33:50 AM »

Those gamekings will work well. As will the 53 gr tsx. This link may help a bit it has discussion on mid to heavy weight bullets.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,153384.0.html

I've dispatched several hundred sheep on my farm to take to the butcher for home use and the ethnic market. A short list for your 1-12 would be; gameking 55 gr sbt ( hp gameking did not exit on broadside shots) and barnes tsx 53 gr. Both will give you pass throughs, the barnes having the most penetration for frontal shots. The gameking being the most cost effective. The gameking only north to south shot I remember clipped heart and lung at about 125 yards and ended in last 4 inches of the large intestine. The barnes north to south clipped bottom of heart, 53 gr ended within a few inches of the pelvic bone at about 100 yards. The bear claws have gotten to high for me, they penetrate better than the other two, but near a dollar a piece last time I checked. The game king is a great bullet, I wouldn't have any worries taking it. Luckily all my rifles are 1-9 or greater so I use the 64 gr., if not I would shoot the 55 gk sbt for cost effectiveness.
Good Luck

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** November 15, 2008, 01:43:33 PM »

Thanks Bug!!!

I'll give a full report however it turns out!!

emsemt911 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:24:26 PM »

I am in the hunt for the TX grand slam. I have shot a Mouflon and a Dahl with my .223. I used the 60 grain partitions. They were shot 75 yds and 125 yds respectfully and dropped without taking a step. I am going to a new Ranch in December for number three. They prefere a .243 or higher. They said that it is their choice because they do get people who do not have the greatest shooting skills.
I will be using a 6.8 SPC on my next hunt. I will let you know the outcome.

drdougrx · « **Reply #18 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:08:27 PM »

Thanks em,

My rem lite varmint has a 1:12 TWIST and doesn't stabilize 60gr anythings. Good luck on your slam. I finished mine a few years ago. Still trying to finish the exotics slam (fallow, sika, axis, red deer, aoudad, corsican, mouflon, catalina, black buck, ibex)....still need a aoudad.

GL!

drdougrx · « **Reply #19 on:** December 07, 2008, 04:37:25 AM »

So I chickened out...used a Rem 700 KS mtn rifle in 06..(165gr hornady/H414). Did quite nicely as expected! About a 130yrd shot across a field, nice.

emsemt911 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 31, 2008, 04:14:06 PM »

Here is my Corsican. It had curls 36 inches long on both sides and scored 122.5 on R.O.E. I do not know the weight, but it was way heavier than my previous rams.

You can see the entrance wound from the .270 Win 140 gr Hornady. It still stumbled 5-7 yards after the shot. All I can say is that I am glad I went with the larger round. I strongly believe that my .223 would have been too small.

Click on the internet pic under the pic to get a larger pic.

drdougrx, nice Dahl. I like the shape of the curls.

drdougrx · « **Reply #21 on:** January 02, 2009, 03:43:55 AM »

WOW Em!!!

Now that's a great sheep!!!

I suspect you have an SCI gold medal trophy there....great work!! Let's see, combined length of 72", I'd give each base about 11", so that makes 94", the 1st quarter circumference about 10.5" each so that makes 115" and the last two quarter circumferences of each horn combined average about 6" each or another 24" for 139" Yep!! That's a good one.

I like hunting the sheep. I have some good ones, my largest corsican had 33" per side and really heavy mass and is an SCI registered sheep. My longest horns came from a white marino sheep that had 37" per side. He's a gold medal but I didn't register him. The sheep I recently took was a "Hey Doug, I wanna thin my sheep herd for the winter, wanna deal on a decent sheep?" I'm still looking for that 40 incher in a corsican, a 36 incher in a mouflon and a gigundo 4 horn! Oh yeah...did I say I'm also working on a 36" aoudad. All it takes is being at the right place at the right time and enough money!!!!!!!

Thanks for sharing!!!!

emsemt911 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2009, 06:53:08 AM »

What is the SCI?
I am in the process of having my corsican reg with R.O.E. (RECORDS OF EXOTICS: http://www.roe.texaswildlife.net/). It made their Gold Medal easily, but did not make their top 10 for the Corsican. Here is their copy of their scoring sheet:
http://www.roe.texaswildlife.net/Forms/Basic%20Sheep%20Form.pdf

I am proud of the corsican, but now I am on the hunt next November for a Black Hawaiian that will beat my corrsican.

Skunk · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2009, 07:10:01 AM »

Quote from: emsemt911 on January 05, 2009, 06:53:08 AM

What is the SCI?

SCI = Safari Club International

http://www.safariclub.org/ (the website seems to load really slow)

drdougrx · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2009, 02:09:08 PM »

HI Esmet,

lemme say up front scoring has riuned my hunting experience...there's always a bigger one out there somewhere. Good thing I eat what I shoot.

Having said that, ROE is a system of scorong that gives almost every animal a spot in the book. A Gold medal ROE may not even make a silver medal SCI. ROE gives preference to length of horn. SCI gives preference to mass as well. I like SCI better as IN MY OPINION, it more acuracely represents total size based on mass. Really.... I got SCI certified so that I'd know what I was looking at. Most ranch owners always have BIG animals. As I guess you've realized...there's big and there's BIG!

Blue Duck · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:29:46 AM »

The .223 will work fine. A good shot is a good shot. I have killed many deer and antelope with a 22-250 and the 60 gr. Nosler partitian. Lots of kill and little blood shot. A good choice if you want to eat the critter.