Author Topic: questions winchester trapper 45 colt (or other 45 Colt lever actions) (Read 3204 times)

Lee Robinson · « **on:** October 25, 2008, 03:59:44 PM »

Question about 45 colt lever actions...

Do you use the same loads in a 45 colt lever action riffle that you use in a 45 colt single action revolver? If so, can you use both the "Colt" load data AND the "Ruger" load data?

If so, how well do the following powders work in a riffle? H110, 4227, and 2400

In 45 Colt, which lever action do you like?

LONGTOM · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2008, 04:39:07 PM »

Hi LEE:
Yes you can use colt loads in both.
I have one from WINCHESTER and I use ruger loads in mine.
Just remember not to use Ruger level loads in COLTS!!
Up to 800 or 900 would be OK in a colt but I would not go any higher.
Now in a Blackhawk you can do so pretty stout loads.
I use 255 grain hard cast wide flat nose bullets backed by 12.5 grains of HS6.
This is a listed as a MAX load for a standard 45 colt in the HODGDON book, but a full two grains below starting loads for a Ruger listed in the Silhouette section of the same book.
My 94 trapper loves them as did my 24" trails end model 94 before I sold it, LIKE A DUMMY!!!
Out of the trapper I get a solid 3/4" three shot group at 50 yds.
Cases show absolutely no signs of any pressure in the 94 and the same goes for the Blackhawk.
I would list them as mild loads.

Hope this helps.

LONGTOM

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:32:04 PM »

Currently, my 45 colts are either Ruger revolvers and a Freedom Arms revolver. I have considered a 45 lever action. I use "Ruger" loads. I don't own a colt version of the 45 and have no desire to own one. Nothing wrong with them of course, but I like the Rugers a good bit.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2008, 05:44:10 PM »

Never go wrong with a Ruger!

LONGTOM

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2008, 12:57:21 AM »

I agree. I have been very satisfied with my Rugers (two 45 Ruger Bisley colts, sp101, and Mini-14).

BTW, have you ever used H110, 4227, or 2400 powders out of the lever action? Do these slow burning powders work out of a riffle?

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2008, 08:08:07 AM »

They work very well out af a rifle. I used to use alot of H-110, but have gone to LilGun for the heavy loads. It doesn't bind up my automatic powder measure like the 110. Pressure and velocity are about equal, will see if I notice any difference in point of impact due to temperature change this winter. H-110 can be temp. sensitive if you are where it geats really cold. DP

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2008, 10:54:52 AM »

How many of you guys actually read his question? He's asking about a rifle so why are you talking to him about a handgun?

jimster · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2008, 03:46:11 PM »

Lee, I do use the same Colt/Colt replica revolver loads in the lever actions, and yes, you can use Ruger loads in the Winchester, Marlin's, or 92 replica's, but don't get those Ruger loads you use in your rifle mixed up to where you put one in a Colt single action or Colt replica. My lever actions like the slow burning powders like the ones you listed. I got worried enough about mixing up Ruger loads for rifles with some of my revolvers, that I no longer load the 45 Colt any faster than 900 fps, and if I need more power I switch calibers. I also figure if I'm loading for my revolver at about 850/900 fps, I might be getting a tad better than that out of a rifle too with the same load, but I have not shot through a chrony to say it's true yet.

243dave · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2008, 04:53:36 PM »

Lee, I have a winchester 94 trapper and it has become my favorite rifle. I load it with h-110(ruger level) and 300gr xtp mags for hunting deer and 250gr cast bullets and a little bit of hodgdons titegroup for plinking. The h-110 load is very accurate, even at 200yds. At that range I can keep all my shots on a 6 inch gong. I wish I had some numbers to give you but I don't own a chrony. As for the rifle itself, a 94 action isn't the smoothest or strongest but it ain't bad. Mine is a angle eject so I'm able to mount a scope(the reason I can hit gongs at 200yds). The 16in. barrel makes it the handiest rifle I have and it really is a 150yd hunting rifle. If I was buying a rifle for cowboy action shooting I'd get a slicked up 92 action(a puma) but for hunting and playing around I'm happy with my 94 winny.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2008, 04:58:56 PM »

GB:
Yes I did and on my part it was just a cautionary reminder.

LONGTOM

navylawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** October 31, 2008, 08:15:05 AM »

Lee,

I use a hefty load of 2400 and a 300 grain JSP in my Win 94 it is great. It shoots them amazingly well. Also with heavier loads you don't have to worry about whether you have the barrel tipped up or down. I did find that with the heaviest loads not all of the powder would burn but I started using magnum primers and solved that problem. As for a favorite rifle it is the Win 94 without a doubt. I had a Puma in .454 casull and I sold it a couple of months ago. (One of the few guns I have ever sold with no regrets.) And I have a Marlin 1894C in .357. It is a good gun especially in brush since it is shorter, but I just love my Winchester.

Navylawdog

btmidwest · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2008, 03:17:10 PM »

Navylawdog, Could you please share your experience with the 454 m. 92. I realize it's your perspective but I am looking at them in particular right now and like spending my money well so please share. Thanks, Bill

navylawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2008, 03:49:50 PM »

btmidwest,

Sure thing. There is not much to tell really, but I will try to hit the important parts. I always had a problem with it shooting high with the .454 loads. I had the sight set on the lowest setting and it would still shoot about 4-5" high at 50 yards. I guess it wouldn't have been so bad if what you were shooting at was out there further but I use open sights. I have heard of others having this problem as well and they say it can be fixed by buying a different sight but never tried it. The accuracy also wasn't all that great. It would keep about 4" groups at 50 yards and that is unacceptable to me. Now with .45 colt loads it wasn't quite so bad it would shoot to point of aim, and keep groups around 2". I already have a .45 colt though so I wanted to use the .454's. I ended up selling the gun because it just wasn't what I was hoping it would be. I hope this helped out some. If you have any other questions fire away.

Navylawdog

btmidwest · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2008, 04:42:17 PM »

Navylawdog, Do you have a bullet preference when using the 454 class calibers? Cast, jacketed or such that could have effected the results in the Puma? I hope your experience is not typical of 454 in the m.92. I hate pondering this stuff but I hate learning the impulsive way more. I have 45 colt and 454 casull pistols and conceptually this gun "fits" well along with IN new deer laws. Thanks again, Bill 4" groups at 50 yards - EEK!

Hank08 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2008, 05:26:01 PM »

I have the Marlin Cowboy and the Rossi 92. I prefer the 92. I use the same load in my .45C Rugers, FA .454 and the M92. 315 gr. cast RCBS SWCGC, CCI 350, and a heavy dose of Accurate #9 which generates 1250 from the Ruger, 1350 from the FA .454, and 1800 from the Rossi .45C. No signs of pressure in any of them. #9
is very close in burning rate to 2400. The 92 shoots 2" @ 100yds. iron sights. I have changed the sights.
H08

navylawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** December 19, 2008, 02:22:30 PM »

btmidwest,

I really can't tell you too much about different loads. I only used the winchester supreme platinum tip loads. I don't remember the bullet weight. I believe it was 260 but not sure. I had a die to reload for it but my reloading has gone by the wayside since I moved to Maine because I don't have any room for it. So maybe if I could have put some of my 300 grain bullets that I use in the .45 colt it would have brought the groups down at a decent range. And like I said if you have to you can get a different height of front sight it will change your POI. I am sure the 92 will shoot just fine if you can get the sights right and you can find a load that it shoots well. I didn't have the time or money to do either at the time. There are surely others on here that have far more experience with this rifle than I and maybe you should get some other opinions.

Navylawdog

btmidwest · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:20:35 PM »

Navylawdog, Thanks for your input and perspective. They are not always easy to get right are they and like you I don't always have the time, money or inclination to pursue every project to the end. Thanks again - Much appreciated. Bill

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:26:04 PM »

I've got a 94 Trapper AE in 45 colt with a K 1.5 Weaver on it and it is fast to get on target. Also have the Puma in 454, got it used and it's on with the sights it wears. Not sure if they were changed, but they look the same as the ones on the 44 and 357 Pumas I have. The 454 is smoother, and carries just fine, but with these old eyes I like the scope on the 94. Don't see either one leaving this house for as long as I'm around. DP

Blackhawker · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2008, 02:28:43 AM »

I have both, a Ruger Blackhawk and a 94 lever action Trapper in .45 Colt. I reload the same loads for both of them; typically 255 grain SWC or 250 grain RNFP over a healthy dose of HS-6.....roughly 1050 to 1150 fps from the Blackhawk. It's a pretty stiff load however not stiff enough to crack cartridges that have all been reloaded at least 10 times. I have probably fired 10 to 15 thousand rounds from my Blackhawk (no kidding!) and have had to replace a few parts here and there over the course of about 15 yeas (transfer bar and a gate detent spring or two). Of the same load in my Winchester, I have probably fired maybe three to five thousand of these loads and over the course of shooting it I have replaced two extractors, one ejector, and one laoding gate spring cover. Does the repair rate vs the loading have anything to do with the relative strength of either firearm? That I am not sure. Perhaps Winchester Lever action parts wear faster than do revolver parts. However, I can say that I have not replaced anything on my Winchester 30-30 which has had at least as many, if not more rounds put through it as has my Trapper.

Accuracy:
The loading, 255g SWC/250g RNFP over XX.X grains of HS-6 is very accurate in both the revolver and the rifle. Personally, I'm not a fan of the stock sights on my Trapper and I'm lucky to hit a dinner plate at 50 yards more than 6 or 8 times with a full magazine load using those stock sights. However, at one time I had a 3-9X scope mounted on my Trapper and for a pistol round, it was extremely accurate out to 100 or so yards. Oddly enough, I even occasionally used it to shoot prairie dogs. I often think about mounting that scope back up but I tend to like to shoot it somewhat "cowboy style".

I warn that the load I have worked up is from data listed as to be used exclusively in stronger framed Rugers and T/C's. Work up your loads and always be safe and use caution when working up your reloads!!

I hope this info helps you out Lee. Good luck and have fun with your 45 Colts!

navylawdog · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2008, 09:35:26 AM »

Quote from: btmidwest on December 19, 2008, 03:20:35 PM

Navylawdog, Thanks for your input and perspective. They are not always easy to get right are they and like you I don't always have the time, money or inclination to pursue every project to the end. Thanks again - Much appreciated. Bill

Not a problem... I try to help when/if I can.

Navylawdog

jbquack1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2008, 08:22:51 AM »

I have a puma 92 in 45 colt and use h110 in it quite a bit,good accuracy and have got excellent performance with heavy bullets (270 up to 335 grain cast).I have also done some work with a 94 winchester and had good results with the same bullets/powder.jim

deernhog · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2008, 12:09:23 PM »

I have used the 320 grn gc lead bullet over H110, loaded hot (1500fps) and I mark all the cartridge bases with red sharpie to make sure they don't get fired in a Colt or replica type gun. It's a hard hitting load that let's you know that it has gone off with that Mod 92 steel cresent butt plate, but it's accurate. I also load a 255 grn lead bullet over Unique that around 1200 fps in my mod 92 I would use on deer and use them in a Colt or Colt replica. It's a 50 yrd tacker and fun to shoot, but sure know it's Unique when it is time to clean it up after shooting. A good hot accurate round is the Cor-bon 265 grn hollow point but not in a colt or replica.

jbquack1 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2009, 03:07:45 PM »

one thing i have found from an accuracy standpoint with my model 92(puma) anmd my model 94 is that they prefer heavy bullets(300 plus grains) although the 270 grain are fairly accurate.jim

Blackhawker · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2009, 04:18:34 AM »

Quote from: jbquack1 on January 12, 2009, 03:07:45 PM

one thing i have found from an accuracy standpoint with my model 92(puma) anmd my model 94 is that they prefer heavy bullets(300 plus grains) although the 270 grain are fairly accurate.jim

I believe that this is because the heavier bullets are longer. Longer bullets tend to "fly" better because they are more stable in flight and hence, tend to be more accurate over given distances.