Author Topic: smokeless powder muzzle loader barrel (Read 3098 times)

12ptdroptine · « **on:** October 25, 2008, 04:53:59 PM »

Doe's anybody make a smokeless powder barrel for the Encore 209X50? Drop

TRM-1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2008, 01:43:34 PM »

www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com

Ladobe · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2008, 02:46:46 PM »

Quote from: TRM-1 on October 26, 2008, 01:43:34 PM

www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com

These barrels are not for TC's, so why provide the link?

hogrdr · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2008, 03:02:32 PM »

Quote from: Ladobe on October 26, 2008, 02:46:46 PM

Quote from: TRM-1 on October 26, 2008, 01:43:34 PM
www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com

These barrels are not for TC's, so why provide the link?

Not sure but link states they can convert T/C Encore to smokeless if thats what he wants!

Ladobe · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2008, 03:39:50 PM »

Quote from: hogrdr on October 26, 2008, 03:02:32 PM

Not sure but link states they can convert T/C Encore to smokeless if thats what he wants!

Thanks for the update. Didn't know they did barrels for them.

HuntHard · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:06:08 AM »

will smokeless poweder hurt the barrel? I know guys who have shot 4227 in theres and they seem to love it.

Keith L · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:21:23 AM »

I would never put smokeless powder in any barrel that wasn't specifically made for it. I saw the results of several side locks that came apart when they couldn't handle the pressures generated by modern powder. I have no idea about the inlines.

Tribal knowledge in the old days said that you could fill a barrel with black powder and it would send the un-burned powder out the end before blowing anything up. I never tried that either. My bet is that if you filled a barrel with modern powder you would be making a bomb.

HuntHard · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2008, 06:31:10 AM »

from what I've heard on the smokeless you don't shoot near as much of it as you would blackpowder.

Keith L · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2008, 07:58:17 AM »

And how many folks have you known that feel if this much is good then twice as much is better. I watched a family member ruin a shotgun by mixing powders and blowing up a barrel, then the next year ruin a 700 BDL with an unsafe load. He was just lucky he didn't kill himself in the process.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2008, 08:17:55 AM »

there are people that shoot smokless in a TC Encore . They tell me that it has to have the screw in breech plug with full threads not interupted threads like the new one .
Most say they hate to clean the gun . I have a SS 50 cal Encore that i shot last year and did not clean it used T-7 . Cleaned the gun sun and it looks like new so that's no reason . At 100 yards it shoots good , so whats to be gained ?

TRM-1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2008, 09:32:14 AM »

The link I provided is for a company that I have spoke to about a smokeless barrel for a encore they don't convert! They make a complete new barrel. seems like they priced me a blued one for $475.00 and a stainless for $525.00 but that was about a year ago so I wouldn't bet they would do it for that price now.

HuntHard · « **Reply #11 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:10:18 AM »

What about the pressure? How can the smokeless powder hurt the barrel or blow out the breach plug if the same amount of pressure is achieved with 4227 as you get with 777 or pyrodex. I've seen it shot with an encore 48g weight of 4227 and cut bullet holes every shot at 100yards and there is no clean up after you shoot. I haven't shot it yet because I wanted some opitions on it before I tried it. The pressure is the part that I am trying to understand. You shoot way less of the 4227 to get the same pressure to project the bullet how is that any worse on your gun or how is it anymore dangerous?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:52:09 AM »

BLACK POWDER -is a fast burn like an explosion . It peaks fast
smokeless builds pressure as it burns slower.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:52:26 AM »

Smokeless builds pressure all the way to the end of the barrel. Blackpowder doesn't. Don't shoot smokeless in any muzzleloader other than a Savage, NULA, or barrels made specifically for smokeless. You're gonna kill yourself and/or others.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2008, 01:59:36 AM »

At one time it was said BP bbls were softer so they could streach where modern bbls were ridgid . not sure that applies anymore

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2008, 02:20:00 AM »

http://www.chuckhawks.com/smokeless_thompson.htm

HuntHard · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2008, 02:41:03 AM »

theres no facts in that. Well the only fact is that your encore barrel says blackpowder or pyodex only but thats a liability issue with thompson. one man says one thing another says that the thompson barrels are well capable of handleing it. Saying it is ok to shoot it in a thompson is a liablity issue and no one is going to risk that. There needs to be tests done to see the difference in pressures and what is a safe pressure. I am not shooting it myself but I know people who say they would never shoot anything other.

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2008, 02:45:54 AM »

They are idiots.

HuntHard · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2008, 06:51:15 AM »

thats one mans opition they have been shooting it for years with no problems at all. I guess i'll call them idiots when something happens. They are not careless with it they weigh every load out to what they have found to work in there're gun.

yooper77 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:00:49 AM »

My general rule (common sense) for any firearm of any type or manufacture.

Use exactly what the firearm was designed for, don't experiment.

If you choose to deviate then some day you or someone will pay the price.

My question is why use smokeless powder in a Savage 10ML? Just use a centerfire rifle.

I personally don't consider the Savage 10ML to be a legal for muzzleloader season if its loaded with smokeless powder.

Some states say they allow only black powder or black powder substitutes, smokeless powder isn't a black powder substitute.

yooper77

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:19:18 AM »

Often people have access to tools/knowledge most don't . These people give us things such as IMPROVED rounds , Magnum rounds , and any number of improvments . Some in fact do get hurt as do some from established companies . Look only as far as Pyrodex (sp) , the inventor got killed in development . Look at the guns that come out of the factory flawed , 17 cal. bbl's on Remington as an example or Rugers new auto pistol being recalled .
Idiots , a few maybe but most trail blazers . If we didn't have them - no 44 mag. , no 22-250 , no 2506 etc.etc.
If you decide to stick with what you know that's good but why cut someone down that may know more than you give credit for , they may give us the next big break thru.

Keith L · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:21:28 AM »

Quote from: HuntHard on October 28, 2008, 06:51:15 AM

thats one mans opition they have been shooting it for years with no problems at all. I guess i'll call them idiots when something happens. They are not careless with it they weigh every load out to what they have found to work in there're gun.

I hope that no one else is hurt when the likely failure takes place.

Swampman · « **Reply #22 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:33:06 AM »

Quote

why use smokeless powder in a Savage 10ML?

You don't have to clean the gun and it's safer.

Quote

Just use a centerfire rifle.

You can't

Quote

I personally don't consider the Savage 10ML to be a legal for muzzleloader season if its loaded with smokeless powder.

Ok so don't use one but where it's not prohibited, it's legal

Quote

Some states say they allow only black powder or black powder substitutes, smokeless powder isn't a black powder substitute.

Smokeless is a safer propellent. It's powder ....period. It replaced blackpowder and hence it is legal in most states.

Only a fool shoots smokless in a blackpowder firearm like a T/C.

HuntHard · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:36:04 AM »

sounds like you know it all.

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:39:27 AM »

I like to think so. I've bothered to do the research. Try it....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:40:19 AM »

LOL !

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:47:35 AM »

so you know the specs. on a tc bbl ? please tell us how much pressure a .50 cal TC bbl can withstand in normal use ?
the breech plug ?
I have a good friend that has been shooting it for several years , a gun smith gave him the load that he uses . There has been no failure !
I don't use it because i like the pellets , they are easy .
And let me be honest I only use a front stuffer to extend hunting season 2 more weeks or gain range in counties where HP rifles are out lawed .

yooper77 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:47:44 AM »

Well regardless what the states allow, its my humble opinion.

I don't and won't consider smokeless powder legal for use during muzzleloader season.

We have black powder, then we have black powder substitutes Triple Seven, Pyrodex, American Pioneer & Blackhorn 209.

Smokeless powder may be a substitute powder for use in the Savage 10ML, but it isn't a true black powder substitute, hence it isn't legal for use in my eyes during muzzleloader season.

Question, why would anyone not want to clean their guns?

I agree, smokeless powder is unsafe for use in the T/C 209x50 Encore, no question.

yooper77

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:51:42 AM »

Why would anyone clean their guns if they didn't need to? Being able to hunt all season with a fouled bore (like you do with a centerfire rifle I hope) would be awesome.

777 is smokeless as is BH209.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** October 28, 2008, 07:56:07 AM »

Got to ask if they printed " CAN BE USED AS A SUBSITUTE FOR BLACK POWDER " on a can of modern smokeless powder it would make it OK with you ?
A substitute is a substitute AIN"T IT ?
Did the jacketed vs. lead bullet debate or the use of sabots bother you ?
If I were a traditional BP shooter it would be side locks . Then the in line was one of the first systems tried and scraped because side locks were deemed superior back in the day .

TO EACH HIS?HER OWN !
GOOD SHOOTING !