when is permission, tresspassing

[Double D]

Had an interesting situation this morning.

Landowner A granted me permission to drive to his property and hunt.

Landowner A has a lawfully established right of way across Landowners B's property.

Landowner A granted me persmission to use his right of way to access his property.

This morning Landowner B stopped me on the right of way and told me I was tresspassing.

I told him I had permission to hunt A's  property and permission from A to use the right away to acess A's property.  Landowner B told me that Landowner A can't grant permission to use the right away across Landowner B's  to gain access to Landowner A's property for the purpose of hunting.

I left without causing a problem.

What do you guys think?

 

[kevthebassman]

Hmmmm, tough one.  Have you called the DNR?

[Double D]

Parks and Wildlife, Enforcement has an Email.  You get better researched reponses there than you do over the phone.  I sent them an email.

[Cottonwood]

Has that road been declared an easment?  If so, Landowner B is out of luck, if not you may be out of luck.  Did landowner A give you written permission such as the book form that Montana FWP has for all hunters to carry?  If you do not have one of these books you better get one because you must be in posession of said written permission or you will get citation for tresspass.

It is no more of the good ol boys giving a verbal okay.

[Double D]

I think you are probably right about the easement.  I may just go to the count clerks office and look the poperty up and see if there is an easment.

As to granting permssion, Montanan can you tell me where you found the the regultation requiring written permission? 

This is what I found inthe printed booklet:

Private Land: Montana law requires permission for all hunting on
private land. Even if the land is not posted, hunters must have
permission from the landowner, lessee, or their agent before
hunting on private property. Landowners may grant permission
face-to-face, over the phone, in writing, or by posting signs that
explain the type of hunting allowed—game species or sex—and
under what conditions. Visit FWP’s website for the Interactive
Hunt Planner or visit http://gis.mt.gov for assistance with land ownership.

Here is what the website says:

Private Land Hunting Opportunities
Montana has approximately 23,000 landowners who own nearly 60 million acres of private land, much of which offers excellent hunting opportunities. Hunters must obtain landowner permission to hunt on all private land, which often can be obtained through simple courtesy and communication between the hunter and the landowner. Remember, while orange paint and No Trespassing signs indicate that the land is private, they do not necessarily mean that no hunting is allowed. Ask first, and the gate may open.

Gaining Permission to Private Land Tips
There are a few things to keep in mind that will greatly improve results when attempting to secure hunting access to private land. Show courtesy to the landowner and make hunting arrangements by calling or visiting at times convenient to the landowner. Whenever possible, plan ahead and secure permission well in advance of the actual hunting date. Provide complete information about yourself and your hunting companions, including vehicle descriptions and license numbers. Explain what type of hunting you wish to do, and and be sure to ask any questions which can help clarify the conditions of access.

Follow the landowners instructions, and bring with you only the companions for whom you obtained landowner permission. Be sure to thank the landowner after your hunt, and consider sending a subsequent note to show your appreciation for being granted the privilege of hunting on private land.

If you have a reference for the written permission rule please point me to it, I don't want or need the grief.

[Graybeard]

Was in a situation like that once in CO but no one challenged us or hassled us in any way. It was nine miles roughly from pavement to the cabin we stayed in. It crossed several land owner's places in the process as well as BLM land. There were several gates that had to be opened and closed in route from pavement to the cabin.

In that case the land owners had worked it all out in advance and crossing was OK but you best not stop and hunt on the wrong section of land.

I suspect the guy was out of line if you were in route directly and not slowly moving along looking like a road hunter in the process but it's NEVER a wise move to argue with a land owner on his own land in my opinion.

[kevthebassman]

it's NEVER a wise move to argue with a land owner on his own land in my opinion.

That's truth right there, even if you KNOW you're in the right.  Call the warden and let him do the arguing.

[Double D]

Thats what I did, didn't argue, just left the poperty as requested.  I will be talking to the land owner tomorrow and he can deal with it if he wishes. 

Unfortunately for him, that means I won't return to that piece of land. He depends on me shoot rock chucks and gophers down there in the summer to keep them from eating up his crop. In fact I have been driving down to property all summer long to shoot gophers and rock chucks and this is the first time I have ever been bothered.

[Cottonwood]

Here is what I found using the FWP Website
A law requiring hunters to obtain permission for ALL hunting that occurs on private land went into effect July 1, 2002. Alan Charles, FWP’s Landowner/Sportsman Coordinator, reminds hunters of the change and encourages all hunters to begin securing permission from private landowners as early as possible. Since 1965, only big game hunters have been required by law to have landowner permission, unless the private land was posted with signs or orange paint. Now, no matter whether hunters are pursuing upland game birds, coyotes, gophers, or any other wildlife, hunters must have permission from the landowner before hunting takes place on private property. Charles said landowners can grant permission in a number of ways, including face-to-face, by telephone, in writing or by posting signs that explain the type of hunting allowed and under what conditions. To assist hunters, FWP has developed a "Directory of Montana Maps" that describes which maps are currently available and how to obtain them. Every county in the state has some sort of landownership map available, Charles said. While some of these are outdated or available only by viewing at the county courthouse, others are current, well formatted and inexpensive. FWP has also developed hunter/landowner "Access Courtesy Cards." These pocket-sized booklets contain perforated cards that serve as a handy means of exchanging information between hunters and landowners. Hunters can complete portions of the cards prior to approaching a landowner to seek permission, with the landowner completing the card and retaining a portion for his records. Hunters can retain the remainder of the card as proof of permission and a convenient record for sending thank-you cards after the hunting season. Map directories and access courtesy cards are now available at all FWP regional headquarters or can be secured by writing to FWP, 1420 East Sixth Avenue, PO Box 200701, Helena MT 59620-0701, or by calling (406) 444-3798.

Your in Region 4:

FWP Region 4 Office
4600 Giant Springs Road
Great Falls, MT 59405

Phone: (406) 454-5840
Fax: (406) 761-8477
E-mail: fwprg42@mt.gov

Office Hours:
M - F, 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.


It has always been a practice over here in the Flathead or Region 1 to have these filled out an in posession or the wardens will give you a ticket for trespassing, and this is being taught in all Hunters Education programs through out the state.

[Double D]

You know I have seen that before. It's not a bad idea.

I had a reply from Parks and Wildlife and they say the same thing as we said here.  Is there a written descriotion of the right of way  or easment and what does it say.

That's allright, I went else where.