Author Topic: Model 70...Control or Push feed? HELP!! (Read 6561 times)

aglass1987 · « **on:** October 27, 2008, 10:13:06 AM »

Im thinking about getting another model 70. Its a featherweight in 300 win mag. Ive always had the control feed models but this has the older push feed action. What do yall think of the push feed? Is it a good action as the control feed. Whats the disadvantage of the push design over the control design. The rifle is in real good shape and the price tag on it is a deal, but i dont know about it because of it being the push feed. HELP!!!

AtlLaw · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2008, 10:38:50 AM »

Quote from: winman92 on October 27, 2008, 10:13:06 AM

What do yall think of the push feed? Is it a good action as the control feed. Whats the disadvantage of the push design over the control design.

Your question assumes there is a disadvantage. Look at them as nothing more then two different types of bolt actions. I like my controlled round feed rifles, but my 2 M-70's are both push feed and all my Remingtons are push feeds and I like them just as much. Never had a problem from either. If ya like the rifle and are happy with the price, my opinion is that the type of feeding mechanism makes little difference.

bluesman · « **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2008, 05:08:37 AM »

I personally am a huge fan of Pre 64 type actions and 98 Mausers, both of which have "controlled round feeding".

However, for the most part, I think that all the hype over controlled round feeding is way overdone. Savage, Remington 700, Browning A bolt, current Sako, current Weatherby and many other brands don't have it and they are good guns.

Don't get me wrong, it may be nice to have but I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

Besides, I think the biggest advantage to a long, non-rotating claw extractor is that it takes a bigger bite on the case rim during extraction. Just keep your rifle and ammo clean and this probably won't be an issue unless you feed it a hot load.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2008, 08:03:56 AM »

CRF began as an issue for dangerous game rifles, and everyone and his brother has seemed to wrap themselves around the issue, even regarding their squirrel rifles.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

If the "price is right" - MERRY CHRISTMAS !

.

buckweet · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2009, 11:30:19 AM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on December 06, 2008, 08:03:56 AM

CRF began as an issue for dangerous game rifles, and everyone and his brother has seemed to wrap themselves around the issue, even regarding their squirrel rifles.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

If the "price is right" - MERRY CHRISTMAS !

.

ditto.............. +1 !!!!

charles p · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:01:39 PM »

I have both types of rifles and have never had a problem. I've never shot a 300 Win in a Featherweight either - and hope I do not. It would surely lead me back to the dreadful flench.

A Pre-64 is a marvelous rifle and probably a darn good investment. Not sure it feeds any better that 100% of the time. I say this because I have never had a problem with either type bolt. The only feeding problem I have ever had was shooter induced - a short shuck. Man will a nice buck stand ever so still and perfectly broadside, than after you have just missed him on a dead run, and short shucked the follow up cartridge.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2009, 03:05:15 PM »

aglass1987,

I am not so sure that I would want a 'featherweight' 300 WM if they made one?

Get one with CRF. Your thinking about it. Why worry about it later?

Arizona Jake · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:12:32 PM »

The post-'64 model 70 push feed action is of stronger design than the much vaunted pre-'64.
The lock time was shortened slightly, there is more steel surrounding the cartridge, the bolt throw is a lot smoother and you don't have to pay jacked-up prices.

I own 2 push feed and 2 CRF model 70's and the push feed models are more accurate. My CRFs are for hunting suff that bites back. One in .375 and a stainless in .338 Mag. The push feed model70's are a switch barrel in 25-06 Ackley Improved / 30-06 and the other is a short action switch barrel in .243 Win./.260 Remington that is being turned into a silhouette rifle.

Zero complaints.

bustedknee · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:29:40 PM »

Many people, when speaking of the "Push-feed"* aren't just referring to the type of action they are referring to the rifle that uses the PF action.
It is my understanding that when Winchester went to the Push-feed they also cheapened every other aspect of the rifle.

That concerns me!

Having said that, the Push-feed model 70 should be all the rifle the average hunter should ever need. All at a reasonable price.

But, if you enjoy or even demand the best materal, the best design, and the best workmanship in your rifle, then stay away from it.

There is a reason every bolt-action rifle in the entire rifle world compares itself with the pre-64 model 70.

*The Push feed functions just fine as long as the rifle is held in the "normal" straight and level position while the shooter works the action. If the shooter, however is in any other position, the cartridge may simply fall out of the action rather than get pushed into the chamber.
The CRF action grabs the cartridge and holds it all the way into the chamber, even if the shooter is bouncing along on horseback, or holding the rifle with the muzzle skyward or on his back on the ground with the rifle upside down (while a wounded lion chews on his feet).

filmokentucky · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2009, 05:33:18 PM »

The post '64 Model 70 was cheapened like most of the rest of the Winchester line. While Winchester was forced to upgrade its products, most knowledgeable gun people feel that the pre '64s were much better guns.

I've never before heard it stated that the post '64 Model 70s were stronger or more accurate than the early rifles. Push-feed rifles are just fine for those who like them but I would much rather have a controlled feed rifle myself. There's a reason why the Mauser action is still revered by riflemen around the world and you don't hear about any wonderful push-feed military rifles. It has to do with reliability in situations where the rifle absolutely must feed properly everytime or you don't live to see the sun come up. Or situations where a malfunction means a lost animal on the last day of the hunt. Nope, I'm quite content to leave the pushers to those who are pleased to use them and I wish them all the best.

billy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:27:42 AM »

I had a push feed model 70 back in the early 90,s and no trouble at all cycled and shot great,have the new FN model and what can i say i love that rifle ,it,s a featherweight model 70 in 270,it,s a shooter.Buy it and be happy.

buckweet · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:00:43 PM »

my dad has a winchester ranger model 70 he bought new in 69' NEVER ever had a problem with it, very accurate and honest rifle, 40 years and 100 + deer , and coyotes turkeys , ect..... very very good rifle if ya ask me.
weet

Swampman · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:10:27 PM »

Quote

There is a reason every bolt-action rifle in the entire rifle world compares itself with the pre-64 model 70.

The Model 70 has never been noted for it's accuracy. The push feed will be more accurate than the CRF.

jlchucker · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:07:52 PM »

I've owned both types. The problem with the push-feed actions, as I see it, isn't with the action at all. It's just that when Winchester committed suicide in 1964 they did so by making their guns look as ugly as possible. Look at a M70 made around 1965 or so, and you'll see bad wood-to-metal fit, creepy-looking "impressed checkering", blonde-colored stocks, and a whole lot of other styling ugliness. The barrels were good, though. As was the trigger, safety, and nothing really wrong with the action itself, as others have stated before. The pushfeed M70 I used to own was a lightweight, made in the mid '80's, and is now owned by one of my brothers. This classic-stocked gun shoots as well as any, and Bob the Buzzard, as we like to call him, generally drops a deer with one shot every season with that rifle. He also has shot some sub-one inch groups at 100 yards from a rest with it. I sold him that gun because I'm a lefty, and wanted a new stainless M70 lefty version. That one has controlled feed, and is now owned by my niece's husband. Right to the end, Winchester employed dumbos in their marketing dept. Their lefty models were all the full-size classic versions, and not the featherweight. Ethan's a big young rugged farm boy who favors that 10 pound with scope lefty. As for me, I scarfed up a nice 7mm08 M70 compact for my bolt gun needs. Just before Winchester went out of business. It's a right hand version but I can live with that. The first shot's the most important one anyway.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2009, 03:09:15 PM »

A couple thoughts-

There is nothing "cheap" about the push feed Winchesters. A big part of the re-designe in 1964 was to cut hand fitting, and use cheaper wood. The metal used in the basic action and barrel never changed. The lack of fit and finish almost killed the rifle. Winchester did the right thing, and by the time the XTR series guns were introduced, fit and finish was the same, or better then the pre-64 guns. The push feed action has been proven stronger in "blow up tests conducted by White Laboratory. It also handles gas flow better in the event of a case failure.

Each rifle is different, but on the average, push feed rifles tend to be a little stiffer, have a little shorter lock time, and tend to be a little more accurate. Look at what serio0us bench rest shooters use.....

Reliability, I believe, is not an issue. I use both CRF and Push Feed rifles without issue. Look at the AR/15 - M/16 series of rifles. They are push feed, and are among the most reliable of all rifles. Any person could pick up my Colt M4 and fire 1000 rounds without issue. I don't think the same thing could be done with my WW-ll K-98 Mauser. Barring a serious case failure that requires more then the already strong extractor systems used in push feed actions, there is no real advantage. I have shot a lot of high power rifle over the years, and experienced 2 failures - the extractor on a model 700 broke, and the tip of a claw extractor on a Browning rifle (FN Mauser action) broke.

Larry

Hank08 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2009, 02:45:51 PM »

Since we're all putting in our 2 cents, here's mine. The Winchester push feed is much better than the Remington push feed but doesn't in any way compare to the controlled round feed
of any make rifle. Ask a long time gunsmith which ones he replaces the most often.
Remingtons will be 1st, various other push feeds next and controlled round feed extractors
just about never.
H08

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2009, 04:50:45 PM »

That because Remington sell 100 times more rifles than the other companies, & people actually use them to kill stuff.

Hank08 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2009, 09:09:04 AM »

You'd think they would use some of that 100 times more profit to develop a decent extractor.
I just finished putting Sako extractors in several of my Remingtons, still push feed but so much better and so much easier to change if ever necessary.
H08

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2009, 10:03:58 AM »

The Sako extractor coversion is very very dangerous. Knowledgeable gunsmiths won't do it.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2009, 10:49:42 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 14, 2009, 10:03:58 AM

The Sako extractor coversion is very very dangerous. Knowledgeable gunsmiths won't do it.

Swampman,

Why is that Sako extractor conversion dangerous?

You are one post away from going on ignore.

Don

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2009, 11:10:31 AM »

Quote

According to Kenney Jarrett (of Jarrett Rifle,) who won't put a Sako extractor in Remingtons, if you have a bad gas leak, you might get part of the Sako extractor back in your face, and this won't happen with the Remington extractor. Just something to think about. I have shot a lot of rounds through 700's and 40'xes, and have never failed an extractor.

mauser98us · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2009, 11:33:36 AM »

I am the world's biggest fan of mauser rifles and it's dervatives,that being said. I own a Model 70 Fwt in 25-06 and have had my share of different Remmies. and Savages. All have been fine rifles If the push feed moves ya,go for it

mjbgalt · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2009, 12:48:03 PM »

so the extractor is inside that receiver, completely, and its going to find a way into my face? i am not going sweat THAT one.

-Matt

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2009, 02:01:01 AM »

The cut greatly weakens the design of the 700. If the rifle blows up, that's where it will give.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #24 on:** July 09, 2009, 04:31:39 PM »

that i can believe. that it might START there.

-Matt

bustedknee · « **Reply #25 on:** November 11, 2009, 03:37:12 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 11, 2009, 12:10:27 PM

The Model 70 has never been noted for it's accuracy. The push feed will be more accurate than the CRF.

Sad, but true.

However, my favorite hunting rifle is a 1952 FWT 308. When I bought it someone had replaced the original stock with a synthetic.
I had it fitted with a new walnut stock from Accurate Innovations. Pillar bedded, aluminum block, re-enforced wrist, etc., etc.
Torqued to their specifications, it shot 3/4 inch groups with the 3 types of ammo I had on hand.

I have another model 70 (1954) that will get the same treatment.

Casull · « **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2009, 05:02:22 PM »

I know everyone seems to revere the pre64 Winchesters, but seems I have heard from a couple of sources that the last several years of the pre64's was not particularly that well put together. Winchester was having some quality control issues during the late 50's to early 60's. So, maybe it is that the "pre 58 or 59" pre64's are good, but not the early 60's models.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #27 on:** November 11, 2009, 05:18:00 PM »

I have been a devoted Winchester man all my life and own dozens in both styles.
At the present time I have over 30 model 70s that I have used over the years.
Some a lot and a few only a little.
I really don't notice the difference in lock time.
I also have never had a round fall out of the action while chambering in all positions except upside down.
I didn't say it can't happen, just never has for me.
I have seen great fit & finish on both types and I have seen some real dogs also.
As far as accuracy goes they have been about the same.
Sure some shoot better than others but then again so does every other brand of rifle.
My pre 64 Feather weight in 270 will keep 4 shots of different brand and weight bullets inside of 2" at 100.
That's one each 130gr & 150gr in both Win & Rem factory ammo all fired one after the other.
With the old Win POWER POINT PLUS ammo (discontinued) it will put 5 under a quarter consistently if I do my part.
My newer push feed Feather weight in the same caliber with a lam stock can't do that, but it will put 3 under a dime more times than not with the POWER POINT PLUS 130s.
Even the old RED LETTER model 70s all shot good.
My 1964 225 will put 3 under a dime even when dirty with factory ammo.
None of my guns has ever been worked on to increase accuracy by me.
I shoot them just as I buy them.
Some of the used ones may have had something done before I bought them, I can't say.
I have also never had a malfunction with any model 70 over the 40 some years I have been using them.

In fact the only Win I ever owned that I didn't like was the 223 WSSM super shadow.
Two shots were fine but by the time you shot the third you could not hold you hand on the barrel for the heat.
First two under 1/2" and then comes the flier.
Now you have 1.5" group.
The barrel was just to thin for that kind of speed in a varmint rifle that would get shot a lot.
In a deer rifle it might be ok.
As far as I am concerened the super shadows in WSSM calibers are a very poor example of the model 70 line.
That is saying something from a devoted model 70 man.

To me the older XTRs with the black fore tip were the best looking model 70s ever built.

Just like all things, some swear by them and others swear at them.
For me, except the one 223 WSSM, I have never had a bad one!

LONGTOM

Tonk · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2009, 10:03:23 AM »

Swampman I sure wish I knew where you get all your information about those model 70 Winchesters and the fact as you stated in your post........"They are not known for their accuracy!"

I presently own some where in the area of at lest 20 various model 70 Winchesters (couple of push feds too) in calibers from a .243 up to a .475 mag. Now all of them will shoot under an inch except the .475 mag using a 600 grain bullet. It shoots 1.4-MOA.

I have a big message for you concearning your post and it is spelled this way HOG WASH PAL!!!

It just goes to show, "YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR ARSE FROM A WHOLE IN THE GROUND" for crying out loud.

Casull · « **Reply #29 on:** November 29, 2009, 12:16:30 PM »

I don't often (ever?) agree with Swampy, but I must say I don't find his statement any more unbelievable than:

Quote

I presently own some where in the area of at lest 20 various model 70 Winchesters (couple of push feds too) in calibers from a .243 up to a .475 mag. Now all of them will shoot under an inch except the .475 mag using a 600 grain bullet. It shoots 1.4-MOA.

Unless of course you are saying that you have owned many more and culled the 20 best. No offense intended, I just find that hard to swallow.