what is a savage and ruger capable of?

[buckslayer]

i am looking for a rifle to practice longer ranged shooting and i want a gun that will always be more accurate them me.  that said, im not rich so the savege 16 weather warrior, in 7mm wsm looks like the obvious choice.  http://www.savagearms.com/116flhss.htm
its also avalible in left hand.  on the other hand there is the ruger mk II in left hand.  http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=31&variation=Left-Handed&bct=Yes&type=Rifle
what would be the better choice for raw out of the box accuracy?  thanks for any info.

[Tom W.]

My vote would be for the Savage, but not a WSM....

[charles p]

If you select the 7mmWSM, you will probably erase all your savings by the excessive cost of the ammo.  Why don't you go with a more "stardard" caliber that is not so expensive to shoot.  Might be tough to sell the WSM once they are discontinued.

[Badnews Bob]

Savage if a fine choice, I stay away from WSM's thou. How far do you want to shoot? I'd look real hard at a .308, for accurate shooting they are tough to beat out of the box. A 280 rem would shoot well to but ammo is again a little harder to find and cost more.

 .243 and .270s are good flat shooting rounds also.

I like Rugers but they cost a little more and usually don't shoot as well as a savage out of the box.

[wareagleguy]

I found a Heavy Barrel 308 Savage second hand for $365.00 out the door.  This rifle will shoot as good as any rifle I have owned.  If you want long range and cheap ammo this is the rig.  I have been shooting it now for about a month and 300-400 yards is not a problem.  Don't think you have to have a WSM or magnum for long range shooting.  Matter of fact if you want crazy long range look into the 6.5 x 55.  I have one in a CZ 550.  One new is around $560.00 but ammo is limited.  Reloading is almost a must.

You can't go wrong with the Savage.  I have owned around 11 different Savage rifles and not one has let me down on accuracy.

[Swampman]

If you want an accurate rifle, buy a Remington.

http://www.snipercountry.com/InReviews/Rem_M700_StainlessSpecial5RMilspec.asp

[Tunaman]

Here we go again.

[Don Fischer]

I've never owned a Savage but in your case I would. No rifle I know of gets the praise for out of the box accuracy it does, and from some that sound knowledgeable. Ruger has a reputation of being a times tempermental. Rem has a good rep and so does Howa. Between Ruger and Savage, I'd take the Savage. Throw in Rem and Howa or anyone else and I'll take one in a cartridge I want. I'd give the 260 Rem a go.

[Bugflipper]

Again savage in 308.
http://www.savagearms.com/10flp.htm
Take a look at this one, it will do 3/8" at 100 if you feed it good factory ammo. If you are into reloading you can shave it down to 1/4". Put on a mcmillan  aluminum bedded stock and you'll generally be under an 1/8".
 Most people considder the 308 to do well out to 1000. That's over half a mile.

[Bart Solo]

The bottom end bolt actions from all of the major manufacturers are reasonably accurate.  They are all very reliable.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Some say the Savage locking nut is ugly, but the advantage of the locking nut is that a competent shade tree mechanic can swap out a barrel. You don't try that at home with any other rifle.

If I were you I would handle as many different rifles as I could.  I would find the rifle that feels best to me.  In fact before I spent a lot of time and money playing around with bedding,  trigger pull and the rest, I would make sure the stock and scope are properly fitted to me.  You would be surprised how much better you shoot if the rifle fits you properly.  If it feels good when you pull it to your shoulder any brand will probably will work for you.   

Now if you just want to sit at a bench and punch paper using a mechanical rest, buy a Remington 700 with a big barrel and learn how to reload.  Personally I get bored punching paper from a mechanical rest after about 5 minutes.  To each his own.   

Lots of cartridges have come along over the years, but most have fallen away.  I suspect the WSM line will last a few more years and be retired.  They simply don't provide any great advantage over the competition. 

When considering a caliber ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. 

The 308 is the standard caliber used by long range competition shooters in America.  Why? Because it is marginally better than the 30-06 (the cartridge it replaced) over a long range out of a long barreled match grade rifle.  That is the cartridge where I would start. 

Of course,  if I were shooting prairie dogs at long range I would probably start with a .223.  There are other fine small calibers, but .223 ammunition is comparatively cheap.  You go through a lot of ammunition shooting at prairie dogs. I talked to a guy the other day who fired 2600 shots at prairie dogs over a weekend last summer.

[Coyote Hunter]

buckslayer –

You don’t mention whether or not you will reload for the new rifle, nor do you mention what you mean by “longer ranged shooting” or whether you will be shooting targets only, varmints as well or maybe even some larger game.  The specifics make a difference.

That said, its hard to beat a .308 Win or .30-06 if you don’t reload.  I shoot my .308 and three .30-06s out to 500 yards on a regular basis.

If you reload a variety of cartridges become acceptable.  My .257 Roberts is my favorite rifle and I shoot it out to 500 as well – and have taken two coyotes at 480+.  The .257 Roberts is low recoil and I can shoot it all day.  The .25-06 is another great choice for long range work.  My 7mm Rem Mag goes to 600 yards with ease, as does my .300 Win Mag, but I wouldn’t choose these if paper punching is the primary purpose.  If you reload the .264 Win Mag is also a great choice for long range work.

As to accuracy, my Savage and Rugers easily shoot as well as my Remingtons.  Had the Savage and Ruger .30-06 out at the range last weekend and was killing clay pigeons at 400 yards with both, as well as nailing the 500-yard steel gong.  Tomorrow they both go elk hunting.

[sonofafish]

Remington all the way,308

[Mr. Joe]

I have never seen a real difference between the two.  I think you have just as much chance at pulling a shooter out of either box.  With a little work, they will both out shoot the shooter. 

The ruger does have a better scope mounting system, CRF, and a much nicer stock and finish.  Savages have always been hideously ugly (at least to a lot of people), and appear very cheaply made.  They do perform fine however, so i guess it just depends on what you want to hunt and shoot with.  They are both made in the U.S so thats a very big plus for me.  I personally would look at Rugers, Remingtons, the new *Winchesters, and perhaps the kimber 84 if my wallet was flush.  Dont overlook used rifles by the way if your looking to save money.  You can often buy a used Remmy or Ruger for the price of a new Savage, and end up with a gun thats worth considerably more if you ever sell.

*I've yet to shoot one of the new Winchesters, but i did have the chance to handle one of the featherweights and it was very pretty, and nicely put together.  The previous classic featherweights with the CRF where fine rifles, and i suspect the new ones will be as well.

[Mr. Joe]

Sorry to post again, but id like to add my two cents in for caliber, though i dont think you asked.  I think there are three standouts.
.308
7mm-08
.260
let me explain...

You will find these cartridges very capable for any non-dangerous game found on the planet.  They also have the reputation for barn burning accuracy and their recoil is tolerable for all but the most recoil sensitive.

If a long action is what you desire, my pics would be (in order)

7mm Rem Mag
.270 Win
.25-06

The 7mm Rem mag is serious business for big critters at big ranges!  It is fairly shooter friendly however, as it generates only slightly more recoil than the age old standard the .30-06, though it surpasses its performance easily.  The .270 can stand on its own merits being with us for nearly 80 years.  Its a very capable flat shooter, that messages ones shoulder very tolerably.  The .25-06 however is often overlooked as is the .257 Roberts or Bob as its fans often call it.  It shoots flats, its recoil is hardly noticeable, and with proper projectile selection, is strong medicine for all but the biggest beasties.

Good luck and chears to the new gun!

[timmo58]

i have purchased a savage model 111 in black synthetic stock and in .25/06 cal it is a hunting rifle reg barrel ,at 100 yrds i shoot a 3 inch group with factory rounds , now i reload can i play with it till it gets better groups than 3 inches? ,or am i stuck with what it does now? , i like 100 grain nosler balistic tips at 3000fps   and IMR 4350 with 50 grains  a cci 200 large rifle primer new rem brass i can only get 3 inch groups what would you recomend for a factory barreled light rifle 6.5 should i call it thin barrel ,and they brag of out of the box accuracy i have yet to see that was hopeing for less than one inch at 100 and no more than 1 1/2at 200 but i guess i have to buy a fat heavy barrel to do that what is acceptable accracy with a light barreld rifle about 22 inches long?in 25/06 can  it shoot to 400 or 500 or not what is best i can expect someone please tell  me as deer season is fast APPROACHING and i may have to find another rifle this is new old stock rifle and i broke in the barrel correctly as per 35 yr NRA instructor had told me shoot clean shoot 2,,, clean did this for 2 boxes of factory now i reload and want better performance has a scope bushnell banner 6 -18 powerx50 mm

[backstrap]

Timmo,u need to try diffrent bullets and bullet weights and powders ,just because u like 1 bullet dont mean the rifle does,your 25-06 should shoot better than 3 inches at a 100 yards,my 25-06 its not a savage but it likes the heaveyer 115 to 120 grain bullets 

[Coyote Hunter]

i have purchased a savage model 111 in black synthetic stock and in .25/06 cal it is a hunting rifle reg barrel ,at 100 yrds i shoot a 3 inch group with factory rounds , now i reload can i play with it till it gets better groups than 3 inches? ,or am i stuck with what it does now?

Each rifle is unique but I have yet to shoot a Savage that won’t do considerably better than 3” groups at 100.  My old sporter-weight .22-250 (a 110) would put 5 shots in a group you could cover with a dime. Just before elk hunting I checked the 111 .30-06 by shooting clay pigeons at 400 yards.

, i like 100 grain nosler balistic tips at 3000fps   and IMR 4350 with 50 grains  a cci 200 large rifle primer new rem brass i can only get 3 inch groups what would you recomend for a factory barreled light rifle 6.5 should i call it thin barrel ,and they brag of out of the box accuracy i have yet to see that was hopeing for less than one inch at 100 and no more than 1 1/2at 200 but i guess i have to buy a fat heavy barrel to do that what is acceptable accracy with a light barreld rifle about 22 inches long?in 25/06 can  it shoot to 400 or 500 or not what is best i can expect someone please tell  me as deer season is fast APPROACHING and i may have to find another rifle this is new old stock rifle and i broke in the barrel correctly as per 35 yr NRA instructor had told me shoot clean shoot 2,,, clean did this for 2 boxes of factory now i reload and want better performance has a scope bushnell banner 6 -18 powerx50 mm

Le the rifle tell you what it likes, don’t try to force a favorite load and be disappointed if the rifle doesn’t like it.

Acceptable hunting accuracy is generally considered to 2-3” at 100 yards for most work, as a practical matter, less only if you plan to reach out past 300-400 yards.  Personal preference may demand tighter groups – in my case I prefer 1-1/2” max at 100 and smaller is better.

A 100g .25 Ballistic Tip @ 3,000fps  is going to drop below 1,000fpe at around 400 yards and below 850 before the 500-yard mark.  You can push a 120g Partition to 3,000fps and deliver 1,000fpe past 500.  The Partition will also hold together better at higher impact velocities (close range).  The Ballistic Tips are too explosive for my taste.

[timmo58]

i was only going to use the 100gr balistic tip nosler bullett for DEER ONLY i would try others though have only had a rifle deer season for 2 years , however i have hunted deer for 40 years with a shotgun and was limited now i have a savage rifle and good caliber but i cant get it to impress me none with its poor accuracy i will have to work up loads. from the low fps and pressure and increase by 1-2 .01-.02 grains will take a long time as i will have to read up on where to start .and when it shoots the closeest group of what i have on hand thats what ill use for deer have many poeders 6-7 different kinds have many bullets in 100gr 75 gr 90 gr .told i should heavier bullet the 2506 like them at around 3000 or at least high 2800s sound like im in for a day at the bench

[timmo58]

from what im reading here i can expect my rifle to hit way out to 300 yrds plus ,i doubt in my hands it could but if it did i would surely be impressed its not a target barrel a simple hunting rifle with scope

[timmo58]

also shoot .30/06 rem 700 ,.444s marlin    marlin 25/20 pump mod 27s , savage 111 .25/06 and use them for deer and coyote after deer season is over,  i re sight in the new lighter bullets .75 gr 90 gr but if i get the 100 grs to shoot well for me ill stick to them and not change and shoot all with 100 gr bullets i have to try 115, 117, 120,why id even use 90 gr if they would shoot for me ,all else fails i have sevsral old shooting shot guns which handle deer slugs like a good rifle is supposed to infact i get better groups at 100 yrds with my belgeian browning shotgun A5 auto with hastings deer barrel smoothe bore with rifle sights using a winn super x deer slug 2 3/4 inch is all i need to be very deadly i put it against many 30/30 rifles at 100 yrds and win many times over

[Swampman]

from what im reading here i can expect my rifle to hit way out to 300 yrds plus ,i doubt in my hands it could but if it did i would surely be impressed its not a target barrel a simple hunting rifle with scope

Any bolt action hunting rifle should be able to shoot 5" groups at 500 yards.  If it can't, it needs work.

[Coyote Hunter]

... i will have to work up loads. from the low fps and pressure and increase by 1-2 .01-.02 grains will take a long time as i will have to read up on where to start .and when it shoots the closeest group of what i have on hand thats what ill use for deer have many poeders 6-7 different kinds have many bullets in 100gr 75 gr 90 gr .told i should heavier bullet the 2506 like them at around 3000 or at least high 2800s sound like im in for a day at the bench

I would recommend a slightly different approach, which is what I use when exploring a rifle's capability.

Take a particular combination of powder, primer, bullet and brass (don't mix brass brands) and build ONE load each at 0.5g increments of powder charge.  I generally build no more than 10 cartridges for each combination and often get away with 7-8.  At the range, foul a clean bore with 4-5 shots using different ammo, whatever you have on hand, then allow the barrel to cool completely.  Then fire the test cartridges SLOWLY, noting the point of impact for each bullet as well as chrono speed if available.  When you are done You will usually have several consecutive shots that group well.  Pick a load using the powder charge from the middle such a group, build a few cartridges and test them.  Chances are you will have a good load.

I also recommend using a heavier bullet – I’ve found the 110’s through 120’s work well in my Roberts.

[timmo58]

thank you all very much i see i have plenty of work ahead and all advice is taken to heart i will find the best load for my 111 savage soon or sell it to the first one with da cash its brand new less than 200 rounds thru it and ill go with my 30/06 instead rem 700 1965 model has had half a box thru it it is like new guy died who had it his wife kept it didnt know the worth i guess i gave 300 for it sight unseen and i got a fair deal and the lady got the money i have the old green rem box of shells the  guy bought with the rifle, and its about half full he hunted with it one year 1965 and kept in a closet ever since ,now it gets used regularly

[wareagleguy]

Something is wrong if you are getting 3 inch groups.  I have never seen or had a Savage that shot that bad.  How is the bedding?

[Ahab]

Something is wrong if you are getting 3 inch groups.  I have never seen or had a Savage that shot that bad.  How is the bedding?

I've had two! Last one had to be sent back to the factory where it got a new barrel. It's OK now. First one was set aside for a few years until I took it to a 'smith who scoped it and recommended chopping off a couple of inches of rough bore at the muzzle and re-crowning. It's OK now too. Co-incidence? Maybe, but I'll think twice before I buy another.

[Bugflipper]

 Ahab, sounds like whoever had them before you is using a cheap alluminum rod and cleaning from the barrel end.

[timmo58]

have that in question savage rifle now shooting, a nice new rifle group 3/4 inch at 100 yards and 1 1/2 low at 300 yards both shot off hand.. like a shot at a deer in the woods standing... bang ,im happy for now. i can get meat..if i see any deer so far one fisher ? i guess thats what it was i dont know for sure never saw one till now

[Tunaman]

Wow, That is some pretty good offhand shooting.

[wareagleguy]

I friend of mine brought his new Savage today(270).  He got one of the package sets from Dicks.  He purchased a box of Remington core lokt.  I took four shots to get signted and let the barrel cool down.  After about 20 mins I tried my first 3 shot group which was a little under 3/4" group.  I let him shoot the rest of the box and he was able to produce about the same groups.

This is one of MANY Savage rifles I have either owned or setup and not one had any issue.  Yes, some shot better than others but I have yet to see one shoot anything much over 1" groups.  Most would do 1" or less.

He got the gun/scope for $329 plus tax.  That is scope and all.  Now that is a deal !

[Hammer1]

Have found that if you loosen the stock bolts or the scope bases and rings -- you can get 3" or larger groups with most rifles.

But with those bolts and screws properly tightened, have found it difficult to get groups that large at a 100 yards.

Will investigate to see if there are other things that can be done to a rifle to accomplish the 3" hundred yard group.

Oh yes, jerking the trigger will do it with most rifles.

.