Powerbelts for Elk

[MF]

I recently purchased an Encore 209x50 for an upcoming elk hunt. I have been shooting 295 grain aerotip powerbelts with two 50 grain pellets of triple 7. I have been putting 10 shots in a 2" bulllseye @ 100 yards. Now, I have been reading that the 348 grain aerotip powerbelts would be better for elk. I went to the range today and shot some 348's and they grouped 4.5" lower than the 295's @ 100 yards. I ran out of scope adjustment trying to bring the poi up. The groups weren't bad (1.5") for the 348's, the 295's best was .75"(all 3 touching). My question is would you use the 295 aerotip on elk or should I shim the scope and start over. The ranges should be 250 yards or less. TIA. Mike

[rpseven]

I haven't ever been on ELK hunt before so you may not want my oppion. I would stay with the 295's since you are getting that kind of accuracy with them. To me shot placement is every thing. Just my 2 cents. Good luck on your hunt.

[RandyWakeman]

My question is would you use the 295 aerotip on elk or should I shim the scope and start over. The ranges should be 250 yards or less. TIA. Mike

Powerbelt sez: 348 gr. Aerotip very good, 405 grain better.

At the ranges you are talking of, you'll need more adjustment anyway. 110 grains loose T7 will bring the velocities back up, and the heavier bullets have higher BC's.

[johnt]

Mike,
 Whom was it,? told you., you can make a sportsmans like kill,on Elk sized game at 250 yrds? With any .50 cal. Muzzle loading Rifle? :evil:
 what is "sport" becoming! :cry:  :cry:

[crow_feather]

johnt

He has one of them new muzzle loaders that can topple a bull elephant at 300 yards. (scopped rifle of course)

Makes me sort of nervous when I'm trying to sneak within one hundred yards -

C F

[MF]

Johnt and CF,

I wasn't asking for flame jobs. A guide in Az told me that the 209x50 Encore was capable of 300 yard shots and that I should zero it 1" high at 200 yards. I'm about as new as a guy can get at muzzleloading but I really was questioning what I was told. I went to the powerbelt website and looked at their ballistic table paying close attention to the kinetic energy numbers and coinciding trajectories(along with my own short observations  at the range) and have pretty much convinced myself that the guide must be seriously confused. I don't think that I would feel comfortable taking a shot at an elk (or an elephant) at much over 100 yards and if you noticed from my previous post that is where I decided to zero at. I posted here to gather more info from people that have experience with ml's so that I wouldn't go out in the field with false expectations. I do my fair share of sneaking up on game also so don't feel nervous about me taking a 300 yard shot on an animal that you are sneaking up on. Thank you both for your very well thought out responses. I guess that I didn't go into enough detail on my first post. Mike

[crow_feather]

Mike

I must appologize.  I have problems with those who would advertise that their muzzle loading weapons will take the fart off a gnat at 300 yards.  I also have a problem with those who blindly believe the hype and actually try the shot.  I can see that you are neither.  

May your hunt be successful, your shot be true, and your game be quicky dispatched.

[MF]

Crow Feather,

Apology accepted. :toast: Sometimes in these internet forums one forgets to include pertinent info to keep the post short. That aside, it sounds like you have traditional ml experience. I unexpectedly  drew a ml elk tag in Az this fall and ran out and purchased an encore 209x50. I've read that powerbelts are the ticket for in-lines so I tried the 295 aerotips and they grouped really well @ 100 yards. Then I read that 348's or 405's were much better for elk so I tried 348's and they grouped well but 4.5" lower than the 295's. I used (2)50 grain T7 pellets for both. I ran out of scope adjustment on the 348's. Randy Wakeman responded with using 110 grains of T7 to bring velocities up but the info I've got says not to go over 100 grains. So, tomorrow I'm going to give the pyrodex pellets a try as I can load up to 150 grains of that. I have been reading both arguments on the 100 vs 150 loads but the powerbelt ballistic table shows increases in velocity and kinetic energy while using the 130 and 150 grain loads so I'm going to try these over my chronograph to find out for myself. Hopefully the poi will be raised too. If the pellets don't work then the next step will be loose powder(and possibly 405's). Keep your powder dry! Mike

[Triple Se7en]

MF

Since you're sticking with Pyro Pellets, why not buy some 30 grains & try 110 first (2-30s 1-50)... that may be all you need to raise your point of impact... if that doesn't do it try 2-50s & 1-30.

[crow_feather]

Mike,

In hunting elk up here, I have seen cow elk punched with a good shot from both a 270 - 130 gr bullet and a 30-06 - 180 gr bullet, between 50 to 150 yds.  Both went over 100 yds without dropping a bit of blood.  My wiife smacked a cow with a 30-40 Krag - 180 grain bullet and the animal just stood there until a second heart shot dropped the animal.  If I were to hunt elk with a muzzle loader I would use the heaviest bullet I could find that I knew would punch through the animal and still be fairly accurate.

Hope it helps,

C F

[RandyWakeman]

MF,

Closer is always better. Ralph Lermayer, with over 80 muzzleloading elk to his credit, is a big believer in Buffalo SSB's.

The longer range stuff is certainly possible, but not without a lot of work.

Here's an article about it:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/long_range_muzzleloading.htm

Cecil is taking smaller caribou, not elk, and those caribou really have nowhere to go. Double-lung them, the parties over. Even though Cecil knows where his bullets hit incrementally at long range-- he still has taken the bulk of his caribou inside 200 yards.

Nobody would suggest you take anything at long range without plotting the trajectory of your load all the way out. Nothing gets better past 100 yards.

[MF]

Thank you all for the replies. I've got till November to get this thing dialed in so I've got my work cut out. I've got a mule deer hunt in Cal to prepare for and then there is always work that gets in my way! I'll keep you posted as the results come in. Mike

[MF]

Well, I went to the range yesterday pm with a box of pyrodex 50 grain pelets and some 348 grain pb's. Loaded the encore with 3 pellets and shot dead-on 1.5" groups @ 100 yards without moving the scope settings from where they were when using the 100 grain T7 loads. The 348's were grouping 4.5" low @ 100 with the T7 and with the switch to the 150 grains of pyrodex brought the groups up 4.5". I still have scope adjustment leftover. So now I've got two loads(295 pb w/100 grains of T7, and 348 pb w/150 grains of pyrodex) that have the same poi. The 348's averaged 1811 fps over my chrono(the pb ballistic table said 1820)so I think I'll be using the 348's for the hunt. Thanks for the input and I'll post the results of the hunt in Nov. Mike

[highcaliber]

I've done about the same as you, got drawn unexpectedly for a N.M. hunt in Oct. owned a knight and moved up to the oncore recently. I'm getting pro's & cons out of  the pb aerotip (either weight). good accuracy but expanding like a ballistic tip too quickly on big game ie; elk, bear etc.
I've shot the bullet and yes they are accurate and loading is of the best because of the snap on sabot. I've also shot the barnes and accuracy is good and have gotten good feedback on big game penetration and expansion, but they are a pain to get started. Since only one shot is required (hopefully) I'm leaning toward the barnes. I'm also using the t7, but was told by TC that the 110 gr's was overloading, I then called pyrodex, the told me that the gun's max load would be 130gr of t7...
Have you shot enough to decide on a load.

Thanks,

[Tracker]

I have to agree with Crow Feather as it relates to the tuffness of elk and importance of a pass through bullet.  While not hard to kill with a good lung shot they can soak up  a lot of lead.  I have about 35 elk under my belt and recommend a bullet that will punch through both sides of the animal.  I learned the hard way about 20 years ago when I shot a nice bull five times with a 140 nosler out of a 264 win mag.  The bull ran a long way crossed onto private property and I almost lost him.  I now shoot a 338-06 with 225 barnes-X bullets.  I also woiuld reconsider using a guide that recommended a 300 yard shot with a ML.  Thats irresponsible and asks for a crippled animal.

[MF]

Highcaliber,

No, I haven't decided on a load as of yet. I'm going to try some of the 405 pb's and a few of the sabots.Pyrodex pellets, T7 pellets, loose powder,.......... Being new to ml's and having a hunt come up so quick is quite taxing on load development!   Mike

[simonkenton]

The hype and bs that goes on in the world of in lines is amazing. Many companies engage in it, in their ads. A professional guide should know better, this guy sounds untrustworthy.
A 300 yard muzzleloader, huh?
I am in the process of dialing in a Savage. With all the power of smokeless, this is not much of a 300 yard rifle. That kind of range in an Encore, using the muzzleloading barrel, is just bs.