Author Topic: 30-378 in mauser (Read 5462 times)

JustaShooter · « **Reply #30 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:56:08 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 08, 2009, 04:14:15 PM

You guys really come up with some stuff.

After some of the things I've read that you've posted, (like your comment "The others are designed to jam the rifle."), that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote from: Swampman on June 08, 2009, 04:14:15 PM

Bad reloads might stick. Factory loads (all that should be used on dangerous game) will never stick.

Really? As my father would say, "Never is a mighty long time." Of the roughly dozen times I've helped extract stuck cases, only 2 were hand loads. All of the others were new factory ammo. There is no denying the fact that a controlled feed action like a Mauser has more extraction strength than a push feed action like a Remmington 700.

Just a Shooter

squirrellluck · « **Reply #31 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:58:18 PM »

I stand corrected Thank you I feel much better now!

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #32 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:50:28 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 08, 2009, 04:14:15 PM

You guys really come up with some stuff. Bad reloads might stick. Factory loads (all that should be used on dangerous game) will never stick.

Anyone that goes hunting dangerous game without first cyling his or her ammo through their gun is an idiot. The same would be said by some regarding any big game, dangerous or not.

That said, my handloads have been no more problematic than factory loads when it comes to chambering or sticking. Occasionally I crumple a case while handloading and depending on how bad it is I may try to chamber it and fireform it back to goodness. Sometimes those cases won't chamber easily, in which case I don't force them. But I wouuld never use such cartridges for anything but target use. The only other problem I've had with handloads is when I seat a bullet out for a specific rifle and try to shoot loaded cartridges in a different rifle with a shorter throat or magazine - but again I don't force them and simply use the proper ammo.

Factory ammo is no guarantee that loads will function properly and in fact there are many reports of various problems with factory ammo. It needs to be checked just like handloads. I have more confidence in good handloads that are tuned for a particular rifle.

Swampman · « **Reply #33 on:** June 12, 2009, 06:11:09 AM »

That Mauser will just rip the rim off the stuck case. Try to get it out then.

JustaShooter · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:55:36 PM »

Coyote,

In this instance we are talking about the case getting stuck after firing, not a problem cycling the unfired cartridge. Other than that distinction, I agree completely with what you are saying.

Just a Shooter

JustaShooter · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:58:06 PM »

Swampman,

I've never seen that happen, although I admit it is a possibility. But if it is stuck so badly that the Mauser rips the rim / base of the case off, you are going to have just as bad or worse of a problem with your 700. Either way, at that point it is going to take a gunsmith. I call that a tie. Up until that point, the Mauser wins that battle.

Just a Shooter

Swampman · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2009, 04:54:37 PM »

With the rim ripped off, a cleaning rod can't punch the case out of the chamber.

JustaShooter · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2009, 05:32:54 PM »

Swampman,

Pull the other leg. If it is stuck so badly that the Mauser action rips the rim off of the case, if it is stuck just as badly in a 700 you sure aren't going to get it out with a cleaning rod. Admit it, controlled feed wins this particular battle. There are reasons to like push feed actions, this just isn't one of them.

Just a Shooter

Frank46 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 15, 2009, 07:18:48 PM »

Just finished reading the various posts regarding your 30-378 on a mauser action. OK here is my two cents worth. First off its a large cartridge and to make it fit you would need a magnum action. Too much metal will have to be cut away from the feed ramp which would weaken the action. Not good considering the pressures that cartridge runs at. And magnum actions when you can find them are very expensive. if I were in your position I'd so with a 30-06 1x10 twist barrel shoot nothing heavier than 220 grains. Once you get over a certain grain weight your twist has to be something like 1x8 or in that area.
There are no flies on the '06. I have about 7 '06's in just about every rifle i reach the maximum pressures I want by compareing the velocity with a chronograph very hand tool. If you look at the equipment lists when at a 1000yd shoot most if not all shooters use aftermarket actions designed for these big cartridges. The recievers are much bigger, barrel shank diameter is bigger. A lot of folks say it can be done ok fine by them. I for one would not risk my remaining time on this planet shooting a cartridge like the 30-378 out of a mauser. Besides I like all the pieces of my body just right where they are. Go with the 30-06 and you won't be disappointed. Plenty of surplus GI brass, unfired lack city match brass, plenty of commercial brass. Handloading data has been recorded since the first shot was fired. I don't think that there is a situation that the 30-06 with proper bullets,powders, primers, and cases working together cannot handle. I fired a 340 weatherby builtj on a remington action once. The owner complained that after ressising he couldn't get his now reloaded cartridges to chamber. We later found out that the action was literally bending each time we shot that rifle. If that isn't a case of using a cartridge in an action and the bending of the action I don't know what is. When the black powder buffalo shoots started a buddy wanted a 45-120 he scrounged up some cases and proceeded to load up using published data. He told me that after the first five shots he was whipped. I had told him to get a 45-70, because at the time 45-120 cases were not easy to get. So he had the barrel shortened now in 45-70 and is one very happy shooter.Can't go wrong with the good old '06. Frank

Swampman · « **Reply #39 on:** June 16, 2009, 12:00:43 AM »

Quote

I don't think that there is a situation that the 30-06 with proper bullets,powders, primers, and cases working together cannot handle.

Ditto

mauser98us · « **Reply #40 on:** June 16, 2009, 07:08:56 PM »

308 Norma mag anyone?

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #41 on:** June 17, 2009, 02:44:51 AM »

Quote from: Frank46 on June 15, 2009, 07:18:48 PM

...
I don't think that there is a situation that the 30-06 with proper bullets,powders, primers, and cases working together cannot handle.
…
Can't go wrong with the good old '06. Frank

The .30-06 is a fine cartridge and I have three rifles so chambered. Nevertheless, I do not consider the .30-06 to be the end-all, be-all of rifle cartridges.

While very well suited to mid-range work for most game, it falls short on retained velocity and energy for longer range work. With many loads it also generates more recoil than many people want to put up with. For target work there are smaller cartridges that are more pleasant to shoot and do so with flatter trajectories and better retained velocities. For varmint work up through deer a .257 Roberts or .25-06 would get my vote (I have a Roberts) and for antelope to elk a .270 win is just as good. Many people prefer the .308 Win to the .30-06, for a variety of reasons. A .280 Rem is another great cartridge and one that bests the .30-06 ballistics by a fair margin in the areas of retained velocity and energy.

Where the .30-06 really differentiates itself from its offspring is with the heaviest bullets, particularly the 200’s and up. For myself, the heaviest bullets I use in my .30-06s are 168g and they won’t do anything I can’t do just as well with a .270 Win and a 150g. Frankly, if 180’s are required, I’ll take my .300 WM.

Recently I started building a custom rifle on an action set up for .30-06 sized cartridges. The chambering I chose was a 6.5mm-06AI. This cartridge easily beats the .30-06 for my purposes and generates considerably less recoil in the process.

“Can't go wrong with the good old '06”? Of course you can.

Swampman · « **Reply #42 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:03:08 PM »

Actually you can't, without going to a magnum. The 6.5-06 is what it it. I'd rather have a .270 or a .25-06.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #43 on:** June 18, 2009, 05:20:04 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 18, 2009, 01:03:08 PM

Actually you can't, without going to a magnum. The 6.5-06 is what it it. I'd rather have a .270 or a .25-06.

Actually, you can - easily.

Although most can, not everyone can handle .30-06 recoil levels for various reasons. For such people the .30-06 is the wrong choice.

If long distance shooting is the plan, a standard 6.5mm-06 beats the .30-06 handily in terms of trajectory and retained energy and ballistics. And for people hunting where 100 yards us a very long, rare shot the .308 Win and a host of other cartridges will generally do just fine. Again, the .30-06 can be the wrong choice.

For game up through the size of deer there is nothing wrong with the .30-06 but no compelling reason to chose it, either.

For ONE cartridge for everything in North America, the .30-06 makes a lot of sense, although most people don’t hunt everything North America has to offer, most don’t hunt anything larger than deer, and most don’t take shots beyond 200 yards. For such people there are often better choices than the .30-06.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #44 on:** June 18, 2009, 05:22:01 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 18, 2009, 01:03:08 PM

... The 6.5-06 is what it it. I'd rather have a .270 or a .25-06.

THe .250-06 and .270 Win are also what they are - and the 6.5mm-06, while primarily a handloader's option, easily beats both in terms of ballistics - trajectory, retained energy, retaine velocity.

Swampman · « **Reply #45 on:** June 19, 2009, 01:40:52 AM »

Only in the minds of those who think wildcats still offer something, and that the the 6.5 defies the laws of physics. The.30-06 can be equaled, but why bother.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #46 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:02:04 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 19, 2009, 01:40:52 AM

Only in the minds of those who think wildcats still offer something, and that the the 6.5 defies the laws of physics. The.30-06 can be equaled, but why bother.

For your education, although suppliers are limited, the 6.5-06 is no longer a wildcat.

The 6.5’s don’t defy the laws of physics, they obey them just like every other cartridge. What they do offer is an excellent balance of bullets with very high ballistic coefficients, good starting velocities and relatively low recoil. As a result it is possible to work up loads that shoot flatter and deliver more downrange energy and velocity than anything the .30-06 can offer – and do it with less recoil.

For a long range antelope or deer rifle or for target purposes, the 6.5-06 is a superb choice and clearly outshines the .30-06 in these roles. The 6.5-06AI I’m building extends the range of the standard 6.5-06 while still staying below .30-06 recoil levels.

I challenge you to suggest a .30-06 load that will beat a 6.5-06 or 6.5-06AI in terms of long range ballistics. Choose the specific load you think is best and tell us about it – bullet, velocity and barrel length. Then we’ll do a comparison and see which cartridge wins the long range battle.

Swampman · « **Reply #47 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:11:36 AM »

I'm still trying to figure out why you chose a Mauser action for a long range rifle. While many have sought to better the .30-06, none actually have. It is, and always will be the king of the non-magnums. There are 2 truely great rifle cartridges, one is the .30-06 & the other is the .375H&H. It would be hard to compare well known & proven .30-06 ballistics to some fantasy wildcat figures that can be invented and impossible to verify.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #48 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:39:04 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 19, 2009, 04:11:36 AM

I'm still trying to figure out why you chose a Mauser action for a long range rifle. While many have sought to better the .30-06, none actually have. It is, and always will be the king of the non-magnums. There are 2 truely great rifle cartridges, one is the .30-06 & the other is the .375H&H. It would be hard to compare well known & proven .30-06 ballistics to some fantasy wildcat figures that can be invented and impossible to verify.

Why I chose a Mauser is irrelevant, but suffice it to say that I have always wanted one and I got a new Interarms Mark X action at a very reasonable price. Were it to do over I would not chose otherwise.

Although the .30-06 is a great cartridge there are many cartridges that are better for a given situation. Your failure to acknowledge that fact makes it no less true.

It is not hard at all to compare the 6.5mm-06AI or 6.5mm-06 to the .30-06 as there are any number of published data sources. The AI version actually has more case capacity than the Hawk so Hawk data can be used for comparison purposes. Quit hiding behind weak excuses and put up your best .30-06 loads – else be recognized as a blowhard lip flapper.

Swampman · « **Reply #49 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:56:52 AM »

The problem with wildcat "published data" is that it's always wildly optimistic. Those who publish it are trying to justify the cartridge's existance.

The Mauser action is ok for close up work, but it's not such a good choice for long range.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #50 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:29:33 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 19, 2009, 11:56:52 AM

The problem with wildcat "published data" is that it's always wildly optimistic. Those who publish it are trying to justify the cartridge's existance.

The Mauser action is ok for close up work, but it's not such a good choice for long range.

First, published data is NOT always wildly optimistic. I've run a fair amount of factory fodder over my chrono for myself and others, enough to know that some factory stuff beats the claimed velocities.

Second, any difference in potential accuracy between the Mauser and other actions is more theoretical than practical. The reality is that a lot of other factors are more important – like the choice of cartridge, the quality of the barrel and its twist rate, the tuning of the ammo to the rifle and so on.

Third, you are avoiding providing published .30-06 data because you can’t find any that the 6.5mm-06 can’t beat for long range work. I know, because we’ve been down this road before and you ducked it then, too.

You are all hot air with a lot of lip flapping but no substance to your claims.

Prove me wrong - provide a .30-06 load that the 6.5mm-06 can’t beat in terms of long range ballistics. It’s a simple request.

Swampman · « **Reply #51 on:** June 20, 2009, 02:03:20 AM »

I've explained this once. There is no reliable 6.5-06 published velocity data. If you load it to 65,000-70,000 as most wildcatters do, it will go fast. The actions esp. a Remington will take this kind of pressure. Don't use a Winchester action for this work. The venting isn't so good. The Mauser will probably hold it. Your accuracy isn't going to be that great. A standard .30-06 or .270 is all anyone needs in the field for the same kind of work.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #52 on:** June 20, 2009, 05:08:55 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 20, 2009, 02:03:20 AM

I've explained this once. There is no reliable 6.5-06 published velocity data.

So companies like Hornady, Hodgdon and Nosler are providing unreliable information?

If you believe that you really are an idiot.

Quote

If you load it to 65,000-70,000 as most wildcatters do, it will go fast.

One of the beauties of the 6.5mm-06 and AI version is that you don’t need to load them fast to beat the .30-06 at long range. The .30-06 has some advantages closer in (at the cost of increased recoil) but simply can’t keep up with the 6.5mm-06 or AI for long range work. It comes down to a balance between the 6.5’s having higher BC bullets and the starting velocity, which need not be particularly high to beat the .30-06.

Quote

The actions esp. a Remington will take this kind of pressure. Don't use a Winchester action for this work. The venting isn't so good. The Mauser will probably hold it. Your accuracy isn't going to be that great. A standard .30-06 or .270 is all anyone needs in the field for the same kind of work.

Using the 6.5mm-06AI you can get great velocity without being anywhere near excessive on pressure. Using the standard 6.5mm-06 you can still beat the .30-06 without going to excessive pressures.

Once again you are hiding behind a lot of blather. Show you’re a man willing to support your claims by providing a .30-06 load you think will beat the 6.5mm-06 or AI.

Or be recognized for what you currently are – a lip-flapping blowhard with nothing but hot air to support your claims.

wackmaster · « **Reply #53 on:** July 14, 2009, 04:32:25 PM »

To shortin a 300 ultra mag to fit a mouser is easy. You need to buy a set of 338 ulltra mag and a set of 300 ultra mag dies. Cut .1875 the 338 dies forme all brass
(full laingth)
then cut .280 off the 300 ultra mag dies full lainght the brass agan trim to 300 ultra neck lainght. Anell brass. have your gun smith use your new brass as a go gage with his 300 ultra reamer!
I get 3200 - 3250 with 180gr. 86.3 gr RL25 fed match primers.
p.s. use 338 ultra brass its easer to form

nilz · « **Reply #54 on:** December 15, 2010, 11:36:41 PM »

A 30-378 in a Mauseraction isnt that hard to do!
just block of the magasinwell and remove the ejector/boltstop making it a singelshotrifle not unlike the .50bmg singelshots.
you also need to open up the boltface and adjust the extractor

to fire the gun, remove bolt from rifle, snap a cartridge under the extractor, reinsert bolt in rifle, pull trigger,
remove bolt from rifle, remove empty case from bolt,

if its a smart thing to do is another question

Blackwell bikes · « **Reply #55 on:** January 14, 2011, 02:09:49 PM »

After reading "swampmans" sage like advice

I figure i should post something that might stop some of the Mausers cant shoot crap. They still shoot Mausers at Williamsport and they still win. Most rifles there are 700 based but that doesn't me the Mauser cant be counted on to set a world record now and then. Don't believe me "google" Ken Brucklacher 1000yd.