Heavy .45 Colt in Model 83?

[jphendren]

I have a Premier Grade Freedom Arms M83 in 454 Casull with a spare .45 Colt cylinder.  I would like to put together some heavy .45 Colt loads that duplicate .44 Magnum energy and recoil.  Even starting loads for the 454 Casull surpass the .44 Magnum by a fair margin.  My .45 Colt loads manual have Ruger/TC Contender loads that look like they are pretty close to a .44 Magnum.  I am fairly certain that the M83 should be able to handle max Ruger loads no problem, but I just want to check.  What do you guys think?

Also, does anybody have a .45 Colt load using Cast Performance's 335gr gas checked bullet?  I ordered a couple hundred of these today to use in .45 Colt loads.

Thanks,

Jared

[MarkH]

Should not be a problem.

www.hodgdon.com has the data you need online.

[Ken ONeill]

The Mdl. 83 with .45 Colt cylinder will handle any T/C or Ruger loads you find in a loading manual. Mark has given you a very good reference in the Hodgdon website.

[EdK]

Considering FA quotes loads with pressure as high as 57,800 CUP right on their website and most all of the Ruger-only data runs only about half of that I would think you are in pretty good shape 

[jphendren]

Hello,

I checked out the Hodgdon site, they do indeed have data for the Cast Performance 335gr bullet.  However, they only show loads using H110.  I have Alliant 2400 and W296 powders on hand.  I have read that H110 and W296 are the same powder; can you use H110 data with W296?  Could I use the starting charge shown for H110 with W296 and work up from there?  I have never varied from the manufacturers recipe in the past, and am a little nervous about doing it.  But there does not seem to be very good load data for lead revolver bullets compared to jacketed bullets.

Thanks,

Jared

[paul105]

JP,

Look at the 454 C data for the 335gr CP on the Hodgdon site.  It lists identical results for H110 and W296.  Compare the starting .454 load to the "Ruger Only" .45 Colt loads.  That should answer you question.

Paul 

[Gun 4 Fun]

 Hello- 296 and H-110 are the same exact powder according to Hodgden who owns both brands. I just checked there sight and I didn't see 296 listed with a 335 lbt in the .45 Colt section for rugers and Freedom Arms but, I believe someone else pointed out the Freedom can go much higher than a Ruger. Besides, your cylinders are made of the exact same materials, just reamed a little shorter for the .45, so they should both take the same pressures you can put in your .454.
If you can, get a copy of Handloader #217 June-July 2002 and read Brian Pearces article on loading the .45 for different platforms.
In it- 335CPBC-26.5 H-110, LPM, 1451 fps in 6" bbl. 50,000 psi load.
Hope this helps.

[Lee Robinson]

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm

[Gun 4 Fun]

   
I have read that article several times. Linebaugh is one of the most knowledgable people on guns of our time. I visit  lot of these sights and almost always someone points out that he says "for use in Ruger single actions only". If you read the whole article, towards the bottom he mentions "That since this was written S&W has worked on the problem of cylinders unlocking and rotating backwards", that indicates to me that that was written before the Redhawk came out in .45 [1999]  as well as the DanWesson model 45/745 [1990 I believe] and Colt Anaconda. Smith and Wesson did the rework/Endurance enhancements starting in 1988 and ending in 1990. Still people will take what they want to from an article and leave the rest unnoticed, if it helps them make their point.
Since all that was written I have read other articles by Linebuagh and others who always include the above mentioned guns. There are articles by Taffin, Pearce,Seyfried and a host of others that all acknowledge that the Redhawk is the strongest SIXGUN available to us at the present.
 Some five-shooters are stronger, that's why I said SIXGUN. The Redhawk is capable of shooting a steady diet of 50,000 p.s.i. loads, but that doesn't mean we have or need to. I strongly agree with Linebaugh, if you need more gun, get a bigger gun.
Whew! I got off on a tangent there. Sorry about that.
Enjoy your gun and please read the articles I mentioned above as well as the links posted by Lee Robinson.

[jphendren]

I loaded up 46 rounds in .45 Colt brass.  They have just above the starting charge for H110 (21 grains), but I used W296 powder instead.  I imagine that it should be safe in the FA M83, given that it is only a 20K PSI load.  A 335gr hardcast slug at 1,100 fps should be pretty powerful.  Although I have read those two articles before, I still enjoyed them.  Some people still argue with Linebaugh about the .45 Colt being able to best the .44 Magnum.  I think my above mentioned load should be pretty close to what a .44 Magnum can do, and it is only a starting charge.  The .45 Colt can push that same 335gr bullet to 1,300fps, and not go over 32,000 PSI.

Anybody know how much a Premier Grade M83 in .454 with a 7.5" bbl weighs?  I think that I read 49oz somewhere.

Mainly what I wanted was a cartridge that was powerful, but didn't beat me up like factory 454 Casull does. 

Jared

[paul105]

Anybody know how much a Premier Grade M83 in .454 with a 7.5" bbl weighs?  I think that I read 49oz somewhere.

Jared

The 7.5" Premier Grade M83 .454 weighs 52.48 oz (octagon bbl slightly more).
http://freedomarms.com/

Paul

[Sverre A.]

H110/23 gr./325 gr.- in my Bisley is 1200 fps -and I`m sure that my cape buffalo - who went down with the 454/378 gr/1350 fps - would go down with this load too  .

Me - as maybe you are - are looking for fps 

[jphendren]

I went out and fired 43 of these rounds last night, they all went bang.  Recoil was pretty stout; darn near felt like a 454.  Is 20,000 CUP too low for W296?  The gun was coated with a black, sticky residue after firing these rounds.  Also, my .45 Colt brass was black and sticky as well.  I have never had this problem before, which leads me to believe that W296 needs a higher chamber pressure to burn completely.

Jared

[Hank08]

I've settled on one load for both a 6" Ruger and a 6" M83 .45 colt.  315 Gr. GC.  It chronos 1250 from the Ruger and 1350 from the M83.  Very accurate in both and doesn't beat me up too bad in either.  Either is sufficient for my hunting needs.
Hank08

[Steve P]

I have a Ruger Vacquero in 45LC and my hot loads equal 44 mag loads.  In the model FA model 83 you have a 5 chamber cylinder vs 6.  (more metal between the holes)  You have better tolerances and higher pressure thresholds.  IMHO your only limitations in the FA83 are your thresholds for pain, and the life of your thin 45 brass.  Check out the difference in 45LC brass vs 44 mag.  You will find the brass in the 45 thinner and it will be more likely to start splitting on you.  ANY 45LC book load will work in your FA.  Most FA shooters that I know have worked up into loads that equal Contender loads or higher.  Your brass and cylinder rotation will not lie.  If you cannot get the brass out of the cylinder or if the cylinder doesn't want to turn due to primer pooching out, you are getting too hot.  Work up your loads safely, and you can safely shoot them.

Steve

[Gun 4 Fun]

With the tight tolerances in F/A guns you shouldn't, and doubtfully will see or have any primer issues.
If you take .44 brass and .45 brass from the same maker and cut it in half lengthwise, you WILL find that they are equal or even favour the .45. It is an old wives tale that .45 brass is weaker, and it keeps getting perpetuated on sights like this as well as from some gun writers. If you don't believe it, call and talk to the people at Starline. They make the best brass going today.
If someone tells you that .45 brass is weaker either they don't know, or are reapting somehing they have heard, or are so heavily in favour of the.44 they don't want to believe.
Go ahead, make the call. It's free, besides, you know you want to.

[jphendren]

Gun 4 Fun,

I have heard and read that .44 Magnum brass is thicker than .45 Colt brass, I also don't believe it.  I have fired a few hundred heavy .45 Colt loads through this FA revolver, and my brass has never split or ruptured.  These 335gr WLNGC loads seem more potent than any .44 Magnum load that I have ever fired, but I am sure that they run at a lower pressure and are not testing the brass in any way.

By the way, I had a 3lb trigger job done on my 83 recently.  I HIGHLY recommend it.  I know that the revolver is no more accurate, but I certainly am.

Jared

[Gun 4 Fun]

Was your trigger job done by F/A? If so, what was the turn around time? I don't have the trigger job on mine, but I'm gonna get them to do it. The last time I talked to them they told me they were backed up and I don't want my gun sittng out there when nobama takes over as dictater, I might never see it again. 

[jphendren]

I had it done about three-four weeks ago at FA.  It was a about a week turnaround.  The trigger is SOOOO sweet now.  I never could hit anything with this revolver before, now I am deadly with it.  I put four shots on a 1 gallon milk jug at 100 yards using my 335gr Heavy .45 Colt loads.  These revolver are extremely accurate, but for me it took the 3lb trigger.  I just can't shoot a 4.5lb trigger very well, the extra pulling force destroys my aim.

Jared